Using multiple domain names?

[vagabond]

I have a client whose busines is a lodge, restaurant and conference center. He wishes to promote wedding receptions, as well as the other services provided.

Would there be a search engine advantage to using different domain names for some of the site pages?

Example: say the business is called "Joe's" and I set-up as follows (these are not real urls):

www.joeslodge.com for index page
www.joesweddings.com for the wedding reception pages
www.joesrestaurant.com for the restaurant pages

Will this help. All pages would use the same template, but content would be different. Would this hurt rankings or look like spamming?

Appreciate all feedback.......

[ctabuk]

Personally I would say that simply using page titles would get indexed, but others may have other thoughts

[bhartzer]

As long as you don't link those sites together you should be okay.

Since they are different topics and target different audiences then it's appropriate to have different sites. Just make sure that you build links to those sites separately--get wedding links to the wedding site, etc.

[greeneagle]

I wouldn't see a problem even linking them together, if you have separate IP addresses and there weren't a large number. Some hosting companies offer that as an additional feature for minimal charge, even in the shared hosting world.

Remember though, IBL/OBL relevancy seem to be increasing in importance.
Ken

[bhartzer]

if you have separate IP addresses

You could link them together, but they would have to be hosted on separate class C blocks.

[khurramali]

Also consider that you will have to increase your SEO budget, because you will be making 4 websites. ( 4 is example)

So whatever needs to be done for one site. like link building, you will have to do it for all the sites seperately, this will also increase your expenses 4 times.

If you just put all your efforts on one site, then maybe you will be better focused, and all your resources will be spent on one site.

But if you can afford to work on 4 websites seperately, then go ahead.

[computergenius]

If Joe decides to have just one domain, what should his (or her!) incoming links strategy be?

I would guess that links should all point to the home page, which would give authority to the section pages (restaurants, weddings). But would there be any point in trying to get people to link to section pages?

And if the links point to the home page, what should be in the anchor text? Should Joe try to get people to change the anchor text (some could say restaurant, some could say weddings)? Or should Joe try to get everyone to use the same anchor text? And if so, what should they use? I am wondering if there is a reason.

I am using this as an example, but I have in mind much more complex sites, which would use the same kind of logic. The idea of trying to get links to internal pages has always seemed very logical to me - but no-one seems to do it.

[Cenobitez]

I used to think google would penalise me for this, and so would other search engines, i have a forum that i used to park ALL my domains on, but as they are parked they work as true domains and google and a number of other search engines have index EACH addrss, even tho the content is the same, so if you search for my site,u get the same pages under like 5 different URLs and i NEVER even gave my URLs out, so i dont even know how they got leaked,

So i dont think they would care less.

[tfinch]

Why not use just one site and even expand it. I know you were just using examples, but a lodge, resturant, and wedding service can all be listed as services under his site and expand from there. You could also add meeting space and conference center, etc. If you organize it this way, you can still use all keywords and links in all the separte catagories. Just a suggestion. Hope that makes sense.

[incrediblehelp]

I would definitely go with one website and use sub-domains or sub-directories. These services are very closely related and I think your SEO and design would MUCH easier in the long run. Wouldn't your end users that book a wedding also want to vacation or dine with you. If you build separate website how would they know?

Also look at your competitors. Are they having success with multiple websites or one? Personally I look at websites that offer many services or even portals you rarely seem them buying a new domain for it. Consider the big dogs like Amazon, Google, MSN, etc they offer all kinds of stuff one root.

Not only is it easier design and marketing in the long run with one website, but I personally feel the search engines like it this way to. With multiple domains it may appear spammy (even if it is not) to them.

[DrTandem1]

I think what Vagabond is saying is that he has one site and has created different domain names that forward to separate pages on the site.

In his example, I think he actually means:

www.joeslodge.com = www.joeslodge.com/index.htm

www.joesweddings.com =
www.joeslodge.com/weddings.htm

And finally,

www.joesrestaurant.com =
www.joeslodge.com/restaurant.htm

If that is the case, no it won't harm you in the search engines, if they are simply forwarded domain names. However, the forwarded domains will most likely not be indexed separately. It could make it easier for humans to remember the URL for the specific page.

[incrediblehelp]

OK, but you must ensure that these "fowarded" domains are not indexed seperately. It can cause issues down the road.

You dont want to run into what Joomla has:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...=Google+Search

[jmoran77]

Personally I would go with proper titles and be sure to use keywords in your text and use text links as well as regular links from the Home page. Too much work for the same product, but that's just my opinion. And if you are only forwarding the domains than why bother anyway this will not really help and may be bad for you down the road. You could subdomain instead?

[jmoran77]

Cenobitez,

How long have you done that with your forum.

I used to think google would penalise me for this, and so would other search engines, i have a forum that i used to park ALL my domains on, but as they are parked they work as true domains and google and a number of other search engines have index EACH addrss, even tho the content is the same, so if you search for my site,u get the same pages under like 5 different URLs and i NEVER even gave my URLs out, so i dont even know how they got leaked,

So i dont think they would care less.

You may not get penalty now but eventually that may hurt your site.

[writergrrrl48]

Although you are mostly interested in the SEs not directories, note that you may have trouble getting all multiple sites/urls submitted to some human edited directories. Editors tend to look for multiple related domains and if they are too closely related, may only allow 1 to be submitted.

Even though the sites may be on different IPs, have different content and different urls, it is clear to the editor that this info is done for SEO purposes and therefore they may not accept more than what may be considered the primary site.

Just an FYI to consider. I've encountered this a few times and have declined such listings (based on directory guidelines, not on my overwhelming lust for power, as I have been accused of by cranky submitters).

[Orion]

create one complete site. Focus the index page on the general keywords, SEO the other sections (pages) for their proper keywords based on the page's content's relevancy.

then... if you would like create small 3 to 5 paged web sites with unique content that focus in each different area.

So you can have main site focused on joe's Hospitality services - weddings, catering etc.
Then have joesweddings exclusive wedding content etc.

Yes each site needs it's own links campaign (as each keyword phrase requires it's own almost), the small sites should link into the large main site... for catering info see joeshospitality etc. you can have all contact and orders placed only on the main site if you like.

This is also a really really popular way the 'bigboys' on the net launch special ad campaigns. They'll create a unique site just for that one item. then link it back into the main site.

Do this all with the focus and purpose of creating relevant information and useful information for your site visitors and potential visitors.

Hope it can help... There's a ton of great advice from everyone here.

[espectations]

Hi,

Search engines index pages - not sites.

Even though Google aparently does not pay a lot of attention to on-site optimization, some of the other engines does.

So, if it was me I would create one site and as suggested create topic specific pages. Good titles works well so do it and use it.

Also, recently I read an article that suggested good written content with up to 3 anchor links to those specific pages and then each article wrapped with related links.

I am testing this theory at the moment but it is making a lot of sense to me as it all has to do with relevancy. Be specific.

Promotional domains aparently does not work that well anymore and if you have to manage 4 different sites you just increase your own workload. I would rather use that time to write proper articles, update a blog every day and get my content published.

[greeneagle]

IMO - This whole cross-linking/reciprocal thing is completely overblown right now!

I link my site on all my client's Sites in a sig on their pages (Gosh as this seems to some) and have them all linked from me in a professional presentation on my portfolio page:
http://www.mountaineagleweb.com/Portfolio/Portfolio.htm

All my clients rank highly for many keywords (even single keywords) ie. Do a google search for "hydrocyclone" - Reciprocally linked client in #2 spot.

I will be launching a new client's Site this evening or tomorrow morning. Another "Oil Industry" client with several strategically allied partners. It's perfectly OK for us to reciprocally link my Portfolio Page and them to each other, because of the high degree of relevancy.

Let's understand just how important the "Relevancy Factor" has become for both OBLs and IBLs.

This fact is further substantiated by examing which Directories were recently elevated to prominance or fell into the pits of hell.

It does take some differintiation:
Content
IP addresses (GoDaddy Hosting + $2.95/month for unique IP)

Sure there are a few rules but there is a little leeway.

"Obsessive" is another story though.

Ken

[kgun]

"This is a very quick exit: the company was founded about two years ago, and took some money from Mark Cuban a year down the line. For Calacanis, this is his second company being sold in a space of about two years...his original company Rising Tide Studios was first sold to Wicks Business Information, which in itself was bought out by Dow Jones.
The company's blogs have had an exponential trajectory, with sites like Engadget, Autoblog, BloggingBaby, and others".
http://www.paidcontent.org/pc/arch/2005_10_05.shtml

USD 20 - 35 mill for 20 sites?

1. Multiple sites.
No probem if they have unique content, but the same design.

2. Code reuse.
It is no problem to make a template that share the same code in identical places for Affiliate links. It depends on your merchant and provider. Some of them reccomend the same Ad on every page. Some of them use the same tracking ID on every site.

3. Unique content.
That is the critical factor. You must not use the same meta tags and you have to write unique content that discriminates between the sites http://www.copyscape.com/.

4. Linking between the sites.
Should be no problem, and linking between related, but unique sites in the same business, may even be an advantage.

5. Penny stocks.
There is an analogy. It may be valuable to invest 7 % of your fortune in 20 penny stocks. If two of them takes off, it may soon become valuable, especially in bear (generally depressed) markets. The good economists do their best investments in bear markets. Some talk of the next .com bubble. So do not spend your fortune on it.

Example
http://www.multifinansit.no/ has got a top rating in Norway. It is a one page site with unique content. No problem to make 20 of them in one month. Code reuse and refactoring is the KW's.

Conclusion
Build useful sites with unique content and brand the logo. One may get top rating.

[greeneagle]

kgun:

"...and linking between related, but unique sites in the same business, may even be an advantage."

I agree completely, very nicely worded. I would even add that they can be on the same IP, with those conditions met.

Ken

[DrTandem1]

Back to the original question, Vagabond wants to know, if there is any benefit from using separate domain names that forward to specific pages of a main site.

The only benefit I see is if customers/clients are looking for only specific products/services and don't need to see the main site and the forwarding domain name is easier to remember than the main site. I doubt there would be much to be gained with the search engines.

[greeneagle]

DrTandem1

From what I can tell from the original post we have been dead on topic all along. We are discussing linking similar but different domains together with each Site built using similar code but different content, aren't we?

The issue here seems to be the relevancy between the primary business and additional promotion of services rendered there, such as wedding receptions, conferences etc...

I think the "relevancy" connection can be made, as long as the primary Site "Joe's Lodge" has mention of all the services. If Joe's Lodge has dedicated pages to each service... Don't use the same verbiage for the independent promotional Sites. THe relevancy connection would be enhanced by using that mention on the primary URI as anchor text out to the promotional URIs.

Again, Separate IPs - best choice. I wouldn't crosslink (triangle)the independent promotional Sites to each other, but reciprocal between the independent promotional URIs and the Primary URI should be OK if no Dupe Content exists, and even better if structured with unique IPs.

There is no SPAM frying in that pan!

Ken

[DrTandem1]

Originally Posted by greeneagle

Again, Separate IPs - best choice. I wouldn't crosslink (triangle)the independent promotional Sites to each other, but reciprocal between the independent promotional URIs and the Primary URI should be OK if no Dupe Content exists, and even better if structured with unique IPs.

Well, we know it won't hurt, if structured that way, but would there be any advantages? I don't see how you could avoid cross-linking as the page would resolve to the main site's domain and therefore links to the entire main site could be followed. Masking the forwarded URL to avoid that would cause other obstacles for the search engines.

I think the only advantage would be for the human visitor trying to remember an URL.

[greeneagle]

DrTandem1,

What's being "masked"?

It's ALWAYS a good practice to have unique IPs in a virtual hosting scenario to help protect from other's potential misconduct.

That's a great and inexpensive mask to wear! It conforms right to your face!

ie: hosting + <$36/year@GoDaddy.

Dirt Cheap Insurance in more ways than 1.

Ken

[DrTandem1]

Again, Vagabond was indicating that he was going to use one (1) site. He was going to then set up individual URLs that would point/forward to specific pages in the site.

Without using another hosting account, he could simply register a domain name such as at GoDaddy ($10<) and forward it to the main domain. The IP of the forwarded domain would be different from the main site hosted elsewhere. Further, if he so chooses, he could mask the domain so that when a visitor uses one of the forwarded domains, the address bar would still indicate the forwarded URL in the browser, not the main site. Doing that would make it appear as if it is in frames and could hamper search engines.

[kgun]

I have a client whose busines is a lodge, restaurant and conference center. He wishes to promote wedding receptions, as well as the other services provided.

Would there be a search engine advantage to using different domain names for some of the site pages?

Example: say the business is called "Joe's" and I set-up as follows (these are not real urls):


www.joeslodge.com for index page
www.joesweddings.com for the wedding reception pages
www.joesrestaurant.com for the restaurant pages


Will this help. All pages would use the same template, but content would be different. Would this hurt rankings or look like spamming?

Appreciate all feedback.......

My bolding. What does he mean? At lest two interpretations? I interpreted it my way.

Another interpretation by ctabuk:
Personally I would say that simply using page titles would get indexed, but others may have other thoughts

That is internal linking. That is important too, but in the choice between internal and IBL's, I prefer IBL's.

That will in my view, ceteris paribus, give the greatest search engine advantage.

lodge, restaurant and conference center

Last question, is it natural to split the pages into different domains? May that be regarded as spam? It may depend on how it is done.

[DrTandem1]

Kgun,

I think he means this:

www.joeslodge.com = www.joeslodge.com/index.htm

www.joesweddings.com = www.joeslodge.com/weddings.htm

And finally,

www.joesrestaurant.com = www.joeslodge.com/restaurant.htm

[kgun]

Yes I saw your first post, and that is another reasonable interpretation, more according to what ctabuk wrote.

Would there be a search engine advantage to using different domain names for some of the site pages?

[TexasJeff]

We recently launched a site that contains top ten lists for popular business categories. These categories each have their own unique page.

We felt that it was important to treat these as individual sites since the marketing going behind each site will differ based on that particular market.

Furthermore, due to the amount of top ten lists and locations we are advertising for we used smarty to auto produce the pages and then included those pages on an automated site map.

The site was designed around what would be easiest to use and easiest to find on the internet for your typical user.

I certainly do not hope that good intentions do not get penalized since we have not purposefully done anything tricky.

Do you think this could be potentially damaging?

We plan on releasing 10 new categories each month over the next 18 months or so. That would be close to 200 unique web sites at the end of the day.

[kgun]

SE's are getting more advanced. The text on a page is in a sense a long string or a set. There are string operators as there are number operators. You may add (concatenate), subtract and compare strings. Not more difficult for a dataprogram to operate on strings or other objects (types) than on numbers, once the methods are given.

If two strings are nearly identical or X% identical, that may be regarded as spam. So be careful. Write unique content, and do not use the same meta tags on the sites.

In my personal view, you should then be safe.

Do we see a new concept emerging on the horizon, site spamming?

More speculation.

Conclusion: Write unique content, and link between this content when it is natural.

[TexasJeff]

Every site is unique with tags and the fact that every page has a unique top ten listing for that category in that location.

So there should be no problem I do not think.

[RJ38]

I have a client who owns a domain, TheirSite.com, they subsequently bought TheirSite.net (not their real domain names) in an attempt to gain more listings in the SE's. They then set up redirects pointing to pages on the main site. The outcome was they were dropped from Google completely.

When they contacted me about their being dropped I had no idea what was done with the new url so I contacted Google who pointed out that they considered the redirects "black hat" and dropped both sites.
http://www.google.com/intl/en/webmas...uidelines.html
Don't employ cloaking or sneaky redirects.
Don't create multiple pages, subdomains, or domains with substantially duplicate content.

I then went to their registrar and pointed the new domain to their original site using the DNS. Google has now re-listed their site, although they have used the .net extension and their listing has fallen from always in the top 3 to now in the 30's.

According to the customer service advisor at Google they consider any use of redirects from one url to another to be a method of cloaking. Since we have now pointed both url's to the same using the nameserver, and not redirects it does not fall into this category.

If the goal is to get more listings, then design each domain with it's own content and link to each other. But I can't see how that could give you more listings than if you simply created these pages on the original website and used the title tags with the new content < title >Wedding Receptions Joes Lodge. The simple fact is the more pages you have, the more listings you can achieve. In reality all you will be doing is tripling your cost and adding more work for yourself.

[incrediblehelp]

Originally Posted by RJ38

I then went to their registrar and pointed the new domain to their original site using the DNS. Google has now re-listed their site, although they have used the .net extension and their listing has fallen from always in the top 3 to now in the 30's.

This can be easily fixed with a 301 redirect and lots of patience. Eventually they wil index the .com again and drop the .net.

[Clarrie]

[quote="RJ38"]I have a client who owns a domain, TheirSite.com, they subsequently bought TheirSite.net (not their real domain names) in an attempt to gain more listings in the SE's. They then set up redirects pointing to pages on the main site. The outcome was they were dropped from Google completely.

When they contacted me about their being dropped I had no idea what was done with the new url so I contacted Google who pointed out that they considered the redirects "black hat" and dropped both sites.
http://www.google.com/intl/en/webmas...uidelines.html
Don't employ cloaking or sneaky redirects.
Don't create multiple pages, subdomains, or domains with substantially duplicate content.

I have a similar problem to RJ38. I have a client in the travel industry, with a site currently on a .co.uk domain, and they want to migrate to a .travel domain. The issue is how to manage this without getting caught out as being seen as cloaking or anything else dodgy. They have currently set up a redirect from the new domain to the .co.uk site, and the site appears as .travel.

They are switching their promotional efforts to use the .travel domain in their literature etc and want the site to gradually be reindexed as .travel

I should point out that the long term objective is to drop the .co.uk - so there's no ulterior motives. So I'd appreciate a bit of input on the possible pitfalls of how to achieve this.

[DrTandem1]

Originally Posted by Clarrie

I have a similar problem to RJ38. I have a client in the travel industry, with a site currently on a .co.uk domain, and they want to migrate to a .travel domain. The issue is how to manage this without getting caught out as being seen as cloaking or anything else dodgy. They have currently set up a redirect from the new domain to the .co.uk site, and the site appears as .travel.

They are switching their promotional efforts to use the .travel domain in their literature etc and want the site to gradually be reindexed as .travel

I should point out that the long term objective is to drop the .co.uk - so there's no ulterior motives. So I'd appreciate a bit of input on the possible pitfalls of how to achieve this.

You need to add a 301 (permanent) redirect(s) to the existing site that points to the new domain. I would then recommend removing the content from the old site and put a nofollow,noindex command in the meta robots tag of any old pages that remain, if you don't remove them (recommended). Be sure to add 301 redirects to any interior pages that receive landing traffic.

If you are trying to use the same server for both URLs, this will be problematic. In that case, you need to change the DNS settings of the new domain name to your host server and contact the host to have them change the DNS to your new domain. You then need to change the DNS settings of the old domain name to park them on the registrar's server and simply forward them to the new domain name.

Please realize that any domain name change for a site is painful with regards to the SERPs. So, I only recommend such a change when it is absolutely necessary.

[cocofried]

I am building a few sites that will relate to my major site on HAIR LOSS TREATMETS.

My major old site http://nuhair.net has a Google rating of 4. My new site of a few months on HAIR TRANSPLANT has already a rating of 2 at Google http://hair-transplant-source.com

I am working on having link exchange with other hair loss sites and most important giving specific information on the individual sites.

I will let you know of the progress...

[cocofried]

I am building a few sites that will relate to my major site on HAIR LOSS TREATMETS.

My major old site http://nuhair.net has a Google rating of 4. My new site of a few months on HAIR TRANSPLANT has already a rating of 2 at Google http://hair-transplant-source.com

I am working on having link exchange with other hair loss sites and most important giving specific information on the individual sites.

I will let you know of the progress