Does a Google-curse exist???

Sinfronteras · #1 (**permalink**) 09-01-2005, 02:21 PM

Hi there,

My website www.spanishsinfronteras.tk (which redirects to www.sinfronteras.buildtolearn.net) got really good ranks until may 2005 with search terms "spanish, courses, argentina", a pretty competitive market. I made my site with frames although I´d been advised to not do so, and spammed the index with keywords. I didn´t like it but it worked.

In may my rating suddenly started to drop, I´m on the 5th page now. Since I thought Google found out my trick, I made the website completely new, without frames or keyword spams, added a lot of new backlinks to and from relevant sites, maybe one or two every day... Addes some content pages (one every 2 weeks or so), added Alt text to all pictures, and I can´t remember what else.

AND NOTHING HAPPENS!!!

- Does a Google-curse exist? Can you get penalized for a longer time because you spammed once? ANd is there a cure?

- Can somebody have a look at the code?

Thank you and happy SEOing...

bhartzer · #2 (**permalink**) 09-01-2005, 02:38 PM

Your www.spanishsinfronteras.tk is an exact duplicate of your other site--so your www.spanishsinfronteras.tk domain is suffering a duplicate content penalty. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if it soon gets removed from the index entirely.

To fix this, you need to set up a 301 Permanent Redirect from your old site to your new domain name. Otherwise, both could end up being removed entirely/banned from Google.

Sinfronteras · #3 (**permalink**) 09-01-2005, 08:46 PM

Thank you for your prompt reply. The thing is: the (free .tk) domain IS being permanently redirected to the buildtolearn.net domain and I didn´t submit the .tk site to Google, 1) because it IS a redirect and 2) because I already submitted the buildtolearn.net and it was doing well.

Or if you did see something I didn´t, please point it out. Thanks!!!

cyanide · #4 (**permalink**) 09-01-2005, 09:30 PM

Cheating can work in the short term, but eventually google will figure it out. It took them a while to punish you, why whould they be so quick to un-banish you?

By the way, you still have some kind of framing or something going on. You should fix all your problems first

Web Hosting | Webmaster Help

JKomp · #5 (**permalink**) 09-01-2005, 09:59 PM

You got good results quick because you cheated, you were caught and now you need to work your way back up the hard way. Your cheating will only have made it harder.
Sorry i cant really help, just the usual advice, write articles (or pay to have them written), submit articles, submit to directories, keep the content on your site fresh and relevant etc.
Good luck.

Faglork · #6 (**permalink**) 09-02-2005, 03:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sinfronteras

Thank you for your prompt reply. The thing is: the (free .tk) domain IS being permanently redirected to the buildtolearn.net domain [...]

Perhaps there is a misunderstanding about "redirection"?

When I view the source of http://www.spanishsinfronteras.tk/
I get

Code:

<html>

  <head>
    <title>spanishsinfronteras.tk</title>
    <meta name="description" content="Spanish private classes and outdoor activities in Patagonia - Argentina. Cheap, fast and thoroughly!">
    <meta name="keywords" content="Bariloche, Patagonia, Spanish, cheap, classes, courses, hostel, private">
  </head>

  <frameset rows="*,1" framespacing="0" border="0" frameborder="NO">

    <frame src="http://sinfronteras.buildtolearn.net" name="dot_tk_frame_content" scrolling="auto" noresize>
  </frameset>

  <noframes>
    <body>
    </body>
  </noframes>

</html>

This is NOT a redirection, it is a badly done framing (no NOFRAMES part etc.).

What is generally refered to as "301 redirection" is accomplished by server configuration. Just how it is done, depends on what effect you want:

a) http://www.spanishsinfronteras.tk/
- shall be the main domain, but requests should display results from http://sinfronteras.buildtolearn.net (acting like a proxy)
- direct requests to http://sinfronteras.buildtolearn.net shall be "301" redirected to http://www.spanishsinfronteras.tk/

b) http://sinfronteras.buildtolearn.net
- shall be the main domain, all requests to http://www.spanishsinfronteras.tk/ shall be redirected

So what exactly do you want?

Alex

Sinfronteras · #7 (**permalink**) 09-02-2005, 11:14 AM

Thank you all so much, but still I don´t get it...

The .tk domain is an empty (free) domain, I use it because my hosting name (the buildtolearn.net) is too complicated. I want a redirect from .tk to buildtolearn.net end therefore I included a 301 redirect in the .htaccess OF THE BUILDTOLEARN.NET SITE, as my .tk is empty...

When I load the .tk page I get this code:
<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">

<html>

<head>
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html;charset=iso-8859-1">
<title>Spanish Courses in Bariloche, Argentina</title>
<meta name="keywords" content="courses, spanish, Bariloche, argentina, patagonia, espanhol, school, espagnol, espanhol, Spanisch, Spaans, leren, lernen, school, trekking, Andes, spansk, course, bolson, classes">
<meta name="description" content="Spanish Courses and Hostel in Bariloche, Patagonia Argentina. Individual tuition and small groups">
<link href="text.css" rel="stylesheet" media="screen">

I wonder where you found that code??? The frameset-type-page I got rid of in June or so, I might be cached somewhere in Google, maybe? Now, I do not want to erase the Google cache permanently, is there a way to erase it just once??? (That´s what I meant with the Google-curse ;)

I hope you can help me again...

Faglork · #8 (**permalink**) 09-02-2005, 11:36 AM

That's the code of the document loaded in the first frame, the frame with the "*" setting ...

When you open http://www.spanishsinfronteras.tk/
do not "right click" and "view source", but use the browser top menu to view the page source, and you will see the frameset. AFAIK Internet Explorer (I bet you use IE ...) shows only the source of the current active frame in the right-click properties menu. So you never notice you are in a frameset ...

If you still don't believe me, try to validate it:
http://tinyurl.com/aqf43
... the validator will show you the frameset.

Alex

Robban · #9 (**permalink**) 09-02-2005, 12:49 PM

Please clarify.

does a redirecting (forwarding) other domains make a separate duplicate site.

I have noticed my same site show up in searches with a different url.

I have about 8 domains that redirect to my site. Some go to a specific page. Some go to main home page. www.fleege.com

I did get blocked with high google positions from google not too long ago but I thought it had to do with some other things I experimented with.

Sinfronteras · #10 (**permalink**) 09-02-2005, 05:21 PM

Thank you so much Faglork, I didn´t even know it existed.

Now of course one question... How do I correct this? It must be something .tk adds as a "surprise" to their (free) service... I do not have a .tk cpanel or such a thing, less a .htaccess file or so... It took a while but finally I got the catch of those free domain names... AAAARRRRGGGGHHHHHH

Is there anything I can do? My .tk page gets a 3/10 pagerank, my buildtolearn.net a 0/10 so I really won´t like to lose those ranks...

ronkymac · #11 (**permalink**) 09-02-2005, 07:03 PM

Hi,

I know the problem you're having - dot.tk (the people that allow you to register .tk for free) do not allow people to alter the document that frames their advertising bit and your site.

To be honest, if I were you, I'd buy a 'proper' domain name - they don't cost the world - eg you can buy a .co.uk domain for about £2.

If you're serious about trying to get good results in the search engines, dump .tk and go for a domain name that you can control better. I actually dumped them because of the time it takes for websites hosted via the dot.tk to load. They might have updated everything by now, but I can't ever remember a .tk site loading particularly quickly.

Good Luck,
Ronald
www.ronkymac.com

edit: it's possible to remove the adverts from the .tk service - I'm guessing that's what you're 'aargh'ing about. Have a look through the settings there - it's definately possible to remove them.

Sinfronteras · #12 (**permalink**) 09-02-2005, 10:55 PM

You´re right, I´ll check soon for a nice name. The AARGGH part was the realization about the unability to alter the dot.tk page.

Now one last question (I promise ;)): If I buy www.mydomain.com.etc, I have a good number of sites pointing towards the dot.tk site, and I didn´t keep a record, is there a way to redirect to the new domain? It´s basically the same problem I started with... Ronkymac, as you know the dot.tk stuff by experience... How did you solve it?

khurramali · #13 (**permalink**) 09-03-2005, 07:15 AM

What you will have to do is to search google for site:www.spanishsinfronteras.tk and then all the pages which link to your site will come.

Now you just have to contact each and everyone of those webmasters and ask them to link to you new site www.sinfronteras.buildtolearn.net instead of the old one.

Then you dump the .tk name, I understand this will be long and hard work, but there is no easier solution.

Free stuff is not always free, Goes for google also.
There is always something in the shadows.

Faglork · #14 (**permalink**) 09-03-2005, 07:18 AM

@khurramali: it is the other way round ... http://www.spanishsinfronteras.tk/ is the *new* domain.

But I second ronkymac's suggestion. If you are serious about this business, get a decent domain and a decent webspace. After all, it will actually save you money.

If you want to stay with the .tk, move it to another provider which will offer you a decent webspace to go with it.

So:
- get a domain plus webspace
- move your content there
- sumbmit to the engines
- Redirect 301 the http://sinfronteras.buildtolearn.net to the new domain
- if possible, 301 redirect http://www.spanishsinfronteras.tk/ to the new domain

Alex

sem-seo-pro · #15 (**permalink**) 09-03-2005, 08:04 AM

In additon top level domains .com .net will always be easiest to rank on Google with.

There are no free rides in life, and at times you need to spend a few dollars to ensure success.

Faglork · #16 (**permalink**) 09-03-2005, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sem-seo-pro

In additon top level domains .com .net will always be easiest to rank on Google with.

.tk IS a TLD, and should - as a domain - pose no problems. On the other hand, a .tk domain is not the first choice when you target an international audience - in that case I would prefer a .com, too. Apart from that, I have never experienced any problems depending on the chosen TLD (most of my domains are .de, which is in sheer numbers second to .com). However, this could be interesting - can you share some facts?

Quote:

Originally Posted by sem-seo-pro

There are no free rides in life, and at times you need to spend a few dollars to ensure success.

"There is scarcely anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse, and sell a little more cheaply. The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey."
John Ruskin (1819 - 1900)

Alex

Sinfronteras · #17 (**permalink**) 09-03-2005, 09:38 AM

You´re both right Faglork/Kurramali, and I think I know what to do now:

Though dot.tk is the new domain, I will drop it.

Yesterday night I started to work on what Khurramali suggested, but I´ve posted on some forums that have been archived. I´m thinking about deleting my Google listing although it has been suggested not to do that, because it will eventually pop-up again. I guess I´ll have to watch out when it happens...

Thank you all!

sem-seo-pro · #18 (**permalink**) 09-03-2005, 10:52 AM

Hi Alex

I guess I was not explicit enough.

Origianlly assigned in the early 80s and which domains can be registered with by the public, the others are reserved. These are known as general Top Level Domains.
gTLD = com, .edu, .gov, .int, .mil, .net, and .org

The two country code domains are TLDs in a sense, but their true classification is ccTLD or country code TLD and I do not think they hold as much value as the .com

Those are the facts part of it.

The rest is from my almost daily observations of the SERPS.

As for rankings in the SERPs on Google.com where a year or so ago, you would find the .co.uk and .au domains being returned for search queries, now you find less and less of those sites showing up.

This is of course due to localization and globalization, but also an indication of change that has and will always occur from my view point.

Clint

gsmanzi · #19 (**permalink**) 09-03-2005, 01:46 PM

Hi, I do not believe about any courses. There's two ways to do this stuff: the right way and the wrong way. But you choice the second one. Since the beginning, while you are using frames, spammed the index and some cheats… Until I believe you’re very lucky… Google can punish your site forever.
The best way, be honest, try to keep the things simple, easy…and work hard. There are no secrets about SEO work.
Have a Nice Day.
PD: Bariloche is really beautifull, I live a couple of months at Km 20, Península San Pedro.

Faglork · #20 (**permalink**) 09-06-2005, 01:57 PM

Hi Clint,

Quote:

Originally Posted by sem-seo-pro

Origianlly assigned in the early 80s and which domains can be registered with by the public, the others are reserved. These are known as general Top Level Domains.
gTLD = com, .edu, .gov, .int, .mil, .net, and .org

... and now extended to .biz, .info, .pro, .travel, .aero, .mobi, .whatevertheycomeupnextwith ;-)

Quote:

Originally Posted by sem-seo-pro

The two country code domains are TLDs in a sense, but their true classification is ccTLD or country code TLD and I do not think they hold as much value as the .com

Those are the facts part of it.

I beg to differ. "I do not think they hold as much value" is an opinion, not a "fact" ...

Seen from a European point of view, a .com definitely holds less value, but it gains value if you target an American/international audience.

So it all depends, as always.

When you target a national audience, (e.g) .es for Spain would be the best choice, as would be .de for Germany. Or even the brand-new .eu, in case you have a multi-national site.

IMHO, the prominence of .com is a historical issue - it took a long time before Americans got to use the .us ccTLD, however, I do not know why. Any ideas?

Quote:

Originally Posted by sem-seo-pro

The rest is from my almost daily observations of the SERPS.

From an American point of view, sure ... don't forget that you search for different terms.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sem-seo-pro

As for rankings in the SERPs on Google.com where a year or so ago, you would find the .co.uk and .au domains being returned for search queries, now you find less and less of those sites showing up.

I just did a .co.uk and do not find any negative effect - we're on page #1 for quite a lot of terms.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sem-seo-pro

This is of course due to localization and globalization, but also an indication of change that has and will always occur from my view point.

I wholeheartedly agree.

Cheers,
Alex

Sinfronteras · #21 (**permalink**) 10-12-2005, 10:47 AM

Ok... thank you all for your comments. I finally bought the .tk domain, and my ranking started to improve... little by little...

4 days ago it was on #3 in Google. The day after is dropped to #56, the next day to #3 again, today it´s at #87. Can somebody explain this???

I know I spammed (in MARCH aaagrrhhh), I know a "free" hosting might be more expensive on the long run, but how can you explain you end up at rank 3 and next day at 87???

And... like I said... in the meanwhile... ranking 2 at yahoo all that time!!!

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