Same IP

[publicsteve]

I have searched the forums but no luck. It seems clear that the more links you have to your site with the link text being the keyword you want hte better.

However my question is are these links still as valid if the sites are hosted on the same server with a shared IP? All the sites that link to me are quite active and have alot of visitors and updated alot but use the same shared IP... is this going to actually be any help?

Thanks

[bhartzer]

are these links still as valid if the sites are hosted on the same server with a shared IP?

You're most likely not getting credit for those links. In fact, I've seen sites get penalized for having those types of links.

If you must link a site to another site on the same IP address (or even on the same class C block of IP addresses) I suggest that you use the rel=nofollow attribute in the links.

[publicsteve]

Thanks for the reply, its appreciated. Not what I wanted to hear though :(

[AndrewX]

I've seen links from the same IP, different domains, help achieve some impressive rankings in Google.

I don't think it hurts, but the question is does deweighting occur.

Don't know, but haven't seen any evidence of this yet...

[pcarlow]

My advice is that if you are going to interlink domains on the same IP use one way links. In other words if you link to a site from one domain, don't link back. One site could link to all the others or all the sites could link to one, ect...

My opinion is that interlinking same IP domains may be discounted but rarely if ever pennalized.

[publicsteve]

Thanks for the info. Im waiting for the SE's to pick up my new links. I notice that sometimes google removes my sites description from the search. For instance I search for it in the morning and it shows as normal with a small description of whats on the page but then search later in the day and it brings back hardly any replies and only shows the domain name and no description or option of a cache etc. Is this normal?

Cheers guys.

[DrTandem1]

Know one, but Google knows what impact such linking has. However, if you take them at their word, then as long as your sites are not mirror sites and the like, you should be fine.

Regarding the different displays within the SERPs on Google for your site, I would say this is normal. Many times you are simply viewing the results from different Google servers. They also cache certain results.

[bhartzer]

if you are going to interlink domains on the same IP use one way links

I wouldn't link them at all. If you must link, make sure you use the rel=nofollow attribute.

interlinking same IP domains may be discounted but rarely if ever pennalized

That's simply not true--I've seen penalties for linking one domain to another hosted on the same IP address. (They've been penalizing sites like this since at least 2003.)

By a "penalty" I mean the sites won't rank anywhere for anything but it's still in the index. Then, when the same-ip linking is removed both domains finally start ranking well in the SERPs.

Not only does this apply to same-ip address linking, it also applies to sites that are on the same class C block and sites that have the same whois data.

[robl]

There is a way you can still get some benefit from those links if you have the ability to make some changes to them: Point them all to different subpages of your site and use somewhat different keywords for each of them. The links won't all help you all that much for your main keyword, but it will help you for keywords your subpages are trying to rank for, improve the overall PR of your site, and improve your deep-link ratio. It will also possibly help theme your site as a whole, though this aspect may be discounted by the fact that the links are only on one IP.

[megahertz28]

It seems that Yahoo & Google don't like a million links from the same domain pointing to your site, however MSN doesn't seem to mind & will in fact boost your SERPs because of it. Im not entirely sure if my circumstance is an anomaly but I have been doing research the last few months that supports this idea. It seems Microsoft is the only SEO friendly provider of search results (black or white hat), go figure?

[freehits]

Originally Posted by megahertz28

however MSN doesn't seem to mind & will in fact boost your SERPs because of it.

This is 100% consistent with what i have seen.

[Mr. Black]

Not True

[freehits]

On MSN this is exactly as stated above. If the poster of this thread would like to see proof of this on MSN I would be happy to provide it to them to be helpful. I will happily provide 5 examples of all same IP links that have sites at #1 on MSN.

I am sure you would love to build on your incredibly in depth post.

[7thDsites]

as long as your sites are not mirror sites and the like

DrTandem has a great point. It really matters little, indeed I doubt you would pass much PR, if that's one of your 'things,' but you'll still get some value. You'll definitely get value in Yahoo and MSN.

Obviously just don't make this your only linking strategy.

[freehits]

that post sums it up nicely.

[Mr. Black]

Linking with same IP address block. I don’t know what the search engines do, but I have 3 site for Boracay beach and I have them all linking to each other with same Ip address and my search is king. I am first for almost every resort -- I am number one in all search engines for Boracay Packages. Any term for Boracay I am there at least 2 out of 3 of my sites. The only reason 1 of the 3 is not doing that great for certain key words is because I was fooling around testing a theory and it did not pan out but it did in MSN. My theory worked great in MSN but not in google. I am changing that site layout like the other two sites that kick ass in google, yahoo and msn. I make my pages from my own theories of trial and error which is the best teacher. Once I change the outlay I am sure that all 3 will kick ass in all search engines like the other two sites. I have all 3 sites hosted at discountassp.com. They all have different IP but still go to discountasp on the same block. All 3 are linking to each other not all to one. I hear people say link one site to one then that one to the third site. Screw that I link all 3 to each other with a directory that has every page linking to all 3 in all 3 directories of each site.

That equals massive key word links going to what ever page you like? I link to home page (given) and then to pages in my site that I am trying to promote.

Example: Nami Boracay first to pages - I am everywhere. They cut me a good deal so I flooded the internet with pages about them so on all my 3 directories I have special links going to them. Now I kick ass in msn, google and yahoo and receive tons of emails a day for that resort resulting in many sales which is why we web position in the first place. I always read these lost puppies that say information is the most important and good content will get you number 1 -- That is such bull!!! Good content no web position is worthless if nobody can find you!!! Make pages to find you then have links on those pages with your key words to go to the content. Of course the special page you make must have at least 600-700 words of pertinent content. Where you put your key words in that content is the secret!!!! Where and how many!!! Knowing that is the reason web positioners make the big bucks.
Is how I do it legal with the search engines? You better believe it!!! There are so many tricks to learn or should I say methods (white hat)not tricks that take many years to learn. Computer programs like web position Gold merely just scrap the surface. Learning through trial and error and tweaking your page is king!!!
More advice-Never touch a page that is king top 1 or 2!!! Just changing one word or adding a link can move you many places. Once you have tweaked a page to top 1 or 2---you can play for number one, but sometimes it is impossible if the other guys url is exactly the key word. It can be done however, but it takes a lot of tweaking. I have bumped many urls with the exact key word and I must say --- It feels good!!!!
If you are trying to sell something and your page is number 1 or 2 why change it if it get the traffic you want and most of all the sales. Why pay google ads and any ads for that matter if you can get to the top and get traffic for free. I personally like the free way!!! Google ads are good if you don’t know any better and you cant web position worth a hoot and you need exposure to make sales, but how much of that paid traffic is fraud? If you get in the top 5 then you will see traffic, but you must be on the first page or you are nowhere. Being on page 2 does not cut it!!! Also, a well made page with no links going to it can be king don’t let people tell you otherwise.
Trick of the day: Fastest way to get a new url or newly made page in the search engines without submitting to all search engines. Merely put your key word link for that url or page on your home page and the search engines of all the big boys will find you fast. (within days or even hours-you will show up-If your page is web positioned good) If the home page is a PR5 you will be picked up very fast by all search engines, but you only really care about Google, Yahoo, MSN and AOL. Of course the lower the PR the longer it will take. Try it – I put it on one of my PR5 sites and I have my new site or page up in just days or hours. Once its up then take the link off your home page and your work is done-Mission accomplished!!!!
Any questions ejoeblack@yahoo.com

Happy Hunting!!!!

[freehits]

Ok your earlier post seemed to say 'not true' to the idea that same block links work. Apparently your post was actually supporting the fact that it does.

Always happy for anyone doing well other than my competitiors but -->Results 1 - 10 of about 2,300 for Nami Boracay

not sure if a 2,300 results search is the best place to put your research time.

Collusion points out in another thread how different markets and terms work under different criteria, and it is implied that the "sandbox related effects" only apply to competitive terms.

I believe I have never met a link I didnt like.

Also, I like the site at NamiBoracay.com I assume it is yours, and it looks very nice.

[Mr. Black]

Nami boracay was just a simple example
if you go to Boracay 714,767 all 3 of my sites are on fisrt page
or yahoo 429,000 I am usually 3-5 but now 4, 5 and 7.
www.boracaylive.com, www.boracaybeach.ph, www.boracayonline.com www.boracay.net.ph www.skinfitnessmanila.com all interlinked. Sites are not awesome but they make good money because of where they are located.

I was just showing Nami as an example of a simple key word where as Boracay is more difficult because there is so many old sites/seasoned.

I have other site that I have experimented with for example www.skinfitnessmanila.com which is located on same IP and tied in to my 3 boracay sites so you could say I have four interconnected with links and one of the sites is not even in the same category. 3 travel sites and one skin site.
Type in Yahoo - skin fitness 8,290,000 I am number 8 on the first page. That gets that site plenty of inquiries. It was all over the place but I made a fatal mistake last week. My credit card that I had down for my host company was expired and I was not paying attention to the date and I was using a different email so their notifications where not getting to me and they shut my site down until I paid. I don’t use that site and the person/company using that site did not notice it was down for 2 weeks---unbelievable!!! Site just disappeared, but is slowly coming back. They called me and I had it back up in a few hours. I guess if you needed a bigger number than 8,290,000 is for you. What’s funny is people even say the sites have to be the same-well in this case NO. All interlinked and all same hosting company and same IP block.
I am just throwing out an example of linking with same IP Block - It can work. Seems like it to me anyways. People can talk smack about me and that’s ok that is why it is a discussion-there is always difference of opinion.

[freehits]

I think we were essentially agreeing, even though it appeared at first not.

I would never wish ill on anyone but my competition, and if it is profitable, then it is a good site.

I think i will be making reservation soon from those pictures.

[Faglork]

Almost all of my sites are on the same IP. I do not notice any negative effect.

This "same IP penalty" idea - where does it come from? Is there any evidence? I doubt it.

Many of today's webservers are hosting thousands of websites on one IP. In almost all cases, there really is no need for separate IPs.

So why should SEs penalize that? The whole concept behind this assumption is that you have a dedicated server. Only a fraction of all websites are on dedicated servers - it would make no sense to penalize on IP basis.

Alex

[wwwizzard]

This might be a silly question, but rather silly than stupid ;-)).
How do you find out what IP your site is on? Is it the IP that equates to your hosting? If that would be the case, then surely having a link from the same IP cannot be penalised. It could be purely coincidental that somebody uses the same host and links to you, especially in some countries where there are not that many hosts.

[Mr. Black]

Exactly - I agree 100% Could you imagine the pain it would bring if you had to host your sites all over the place instead of your own server for fear of penalty. I just don’t see the logic. Why penalize sites because they have the same IP if they are offering pure information in which the search engines are looking for in the first place. I don’t think that the user is penalized for using the system.

Thanks on the pictures comment. Boracay is #3 beach in the world last I heard and number 1 destination in Asia. If you guys are looking for a real vacation and want a real white Sand beach with great nightlife, girls, etc. Boracay Beach is the place and soon I will have a live streaming video 24 hours a day on www.boracaylive.com Check it out sometime

[Faglork]

Originally Posted by wwwizzard

(...)
How do you find out what IP your site is on? Is it the IP that equates to your hosting? If that would be the case, then surely having a link from the same IP cannot be penalised.(...)

The server "itself" could have a different IP, right. Depends on how it is configured. In most cases, the IP of the server and all virtual hosts is the same.

Simplest method to find the IP: ping your domain. You can do this online, here is an example:
http://tinyurl.com/66zef

Or use the ping utility of your OS.

hth,
Alex

[Mr. Black]

12 46 44 46 64.79.161.39 web111.discountasp.net
12 46 44 46 64.79.161.48 web108.discountasp.net
12 46 44 47 64.79.161.38 web112.discountasp.net
12 46 46 44 64.79.161.47 web107.discountasp.net
As you can see all are with the same provider and all are interlocked and linked together. No problems - Great Results in web positioning.

I say link away to all your sites as long as your key word link is in tune with your theme of your site. Don’t make your link on one site going to another site keep with the theme of the originating site. Let say my theme is Boracay, on 3 of my sites and skin products on another. I would not make a link to a Boracay site from the skin site using say skin fitness as my key word link to keep the theme of the skin site. I still would use the key word Boracay. If I used say, “skin Fitness” as the key word link then it would throw off the theme of my Boracay site. It may keep the theme of the skin site but hurt my Boracay site. If I use Boracay on the skin site down at the bottom say as a link partner or something than that really does not affect anything. At least what I have observed!!!

Anyways – Good luck and happy linking

[publicsteve]

We host around 600 unique users and an average of 1000 different sites which are active and the majority have good ratings. Alot have agree'd to offer incoming links for a small monthly discount. Thats where this question spins off from.

Im thankful for all the posts and im taking note of all comments made.

Thanks people.

[hawkwind dave]

I've got around 55 out of my 62 websites ranking well on page one of GG for various competative and not so competative keywords.

the vast majority of these sites are hosted on the same ip, and i reckon 70-80% of the links are from the same ip.

No problem with it from where I'm standing.

:-) dave

BTW, I don't do 'free for all' crosslinking, I only link the ones which I feel are either loosely or highly themed.

[publicsteve]

Just thought I would let people know that I got a rank 1 and a rank 2 for some pretty competitive keywords(we pay alot via pay per click for them) and im so happy. I just want to tell everyone lol. Sounds so stupid but im very impressed.

[Conficio]

Originally Posted by faglork

This "same IP penalty" idea - where does it come from? Is there any evidence? I doubt it.

Many of today's webservers are hosting thousands of websites on one IP. In almost all cases, there really is no need for separate IPs.

So why should SEs penalize that?

Alex,
I can only agree. Where should this whole concept come from? It does not make sense. A website can have anything as a base URL

• http://example.com/
• http://www.example.com/
• http://www.example.com/~username
• http://example.com/username/
• http://example.com/subtree/mypage
• ...

A website has some common base URL, not a domain, a server, etc. Many websites can exist on the same tree, such as all the free home pages that come with ISP accounts. As well as one server can serve many domains with one or more IP addresses. Even that same domain or server can have multiple domains, such as in a round robin DNS scenario.

The whole concept behind this assumption is that you have a dedicated server. Only a fraction of all websites are on dedicated servers - it would make no sense to penalize on IP basis.

I think the assumption (dedicated server) is incorrect, see above, but the conclusion I agree with.

I can't imagine why a search engine would penalize a web designer, that hosts many client sites on the same server/IP. I can't imagine that search engines would try to figure out if a domain has multiple IP addresses.

At first thought, the idea of looking at identical whois information as to a clue seemed more reasonable to me. However, I doubt it that search engines would penalize someone who operates many domains with discussion sites such as iEntry, Inc., the hoster of this forum which do host multiple similar topic sites and post the same advertisement or topical discussions and articles on many sites.

It is just not logical and would harm the search engine results a great deal.

The concept of interlinking sites in a relatively massive way (one or two dozen) should be easily detected by the search engines by doing a cluster analysis, which tells you that they are a ghetto of some sort. Look at Google's original text. They think of hubs and authorities as most relevant. If all your sites do export as many links as they get, they are neither.

In general, I think the view of a 'site' is foreign to the search engines. All they do is look at pages and their link patterns. A site as a natural link pattern, because you must navigate it somehow. And most often links from one site to another point to the home page of the recipient (whether it be a domain or a page somewhere in the tree), so it becomes naturally a hub.

Think about it, if search engines would look at a web site in its natural tree structure in a file system, should it not be logical to give some PR to the pages that are higher up in the URL? If this is true, should not http://example.com/car/bmw/ give some of its PR to http://example.com/car/ ? For me the logical conclusion is that the human concept of a website is irrelevant for search engines at least it should be. Because the assumption, that every website starts with a domain root is wrong. All the wonderful exercises of clustering etc. look nice for the consumer, but they won't tell you too much about the reality if they where somehow guessing what the scope of a site is.

Just my five cents worth

K<o>

[freehits]

Well to agree with the idea that whois information comes with no penatly.

Take a look at the #1 worst google spam I have ever seen

"buy direct tv"

top 6 sites of 18,000,000 results are all duplicate sites - spam link farms. Most of the entire page 1 is generated spam for this huge term.

All have the 'same webmaster's address' in the whois information, yet they do use different ip's.

4 of 6 of those sites ar PR0 with less than 30 ILB's each most internal links.

I could find no relevent IBL's at all of the ones currently displayed by google.

I think too much credit is being given to the ranking system. I dont see any penalties for the cases pointed out above, there is much more 'urban legend' than 'actual science' in rankings and the penalties that come with them.

[publicsteve]

Our website was rank 126 - 132 for our keywords and when I search this morning on google its no where to be found. If i type our domain name into google it just brings back with the domain name... no description, no cache ... nothing. It doesn't look like google has actually picked up the new incoming links so could this just be a coincidence that is likely to fix itself? Any advice would be appreciated.

PS: We updated our site yesterday by changing a few words around to get our keywords involved more, adding some title tags to link etc. Could this possibly be the problem? That google is just updating and accidently dropped us in the mean time?

Thanks

[publicsteve]

Seems to be back now.

[robl]

A clarification is in order here: its perfectly OK for there to be many sites hosted on the same IP and not get penalized. They can even link to each other. However, if you have 500 sites on the same IP, or even same class-C IP range all linking to your site you will NOT get the same effect you would get if those 500 sites were on different IPs. You don't necessarily get penalized for having many links on the same IP, it just won't help you nearly as much as if they weren't on the same IP.

It is possible in some cases for a site's rankings to be hurt (temporarily) by being linked-to by 500 sites on the same IP though - if all 500 sites use the same link text it may very well push the linked-to site over the edge of an overoptimization-of-link-text penalty. This is more likely to happen to a new site with few other backlinks - an established site with plenty of diverse backlinks would likely not be hurt at all by 500 links from the same IP, and would probably be helped by it.

[Conficio]

Originally Posted by robl

A clarification is in order here: its perfectly OK for there to be many sites hosted on the same IP and not get penalized. They can even link to each other. However, if you have 500 sites on the same IP, or even same class-C IP range all linking to your site you will NOT get the same effect you would get if those 500 sites were on different IPs. You don't necessarily get penalized for having many links on the same IP, it just won't help you nearly as much as if they weren't on the same IP.

It is possible in some cases for a site's rankings to be hurt (temporarily) by being linked-to by 500 sites on the same IP though - if all 500 sites use the same link text it may very well push the linked-to site over the edge of an overoptimization-of-link-text penalty. This is more likely to happen to a new site with few other backlinks - an established site with plenty of diverse backlinks would likely not be hurt at all by 500 links from the same IP, and would probably be helped by it.

Hi Robert,
do you have any logical reason why you think that is the case? Or any verifiable proof?

As I stated earlier, a web site is not constituted through an IP or domain. In reality it is only constituted by a common base-URL, such as http://www.example.com/MyBase/SomeOtherPart/ . This makes a website a human concept, that is hard to identify for an algorithm. And for some reason Google calls its basic claim to fame "Page Rank", not "Site Rank" nor "IP-Rank" (and I believe it is not called solely after one of the founders, because they coined this name in a scientific paper).

Also a website can have many IP addresses in case of a DNS round robin load balancing scheme. Those are all reasons not to put less weight (a penalty) on links to the same IP or within the same Class C network. I just don't believe it, that Goolge does care about IPs unless you can show me an argument that makes sense.

I'm looking forward to hear from you. You must have some proof for your believe, as you seem to base a business on it. and I'm eager to learn more about it.

K<o>