SEO as a career

[collusion]

I started out as a musician trying to promote myself. I tried everything in the book and learned through trial and error along with a bit of common sense.

As time went by I open up a few ecommerce sites that failed miserably. Soon after that I found that I can manipulate search engines for ANY keyword I wanted, even the hard ones. I started getting word of mouth and now I currently have clients paying me anywhere from $250 a month to $500 a month to upfront fees of $3,000 just to start services.

The thing is I don't really want to do SEO as a living. My real aspiration is to be a real estate investment billionaire. I recently bought my 4,800 sq ft house with zero down and F credit.

Problem is that I keep getting clients in the SEO business. Soon I will be like that celebrity travel agent who has an unlisted number.

SEO's I am sure would LOVE to have my problem. I just want to be negotiating deals on high rises instead of this.

Anybody have a similar issue? Or am I alone?

[janeth]

Nice problem to have. I see website design is one of your keywords. Why don´t we have a little contest.

I can not manipulate the search engines like you can but would be willing to say I could rank my site without manipulating the search engines into the top 10 before you can do it while manipulating them.

[collusion]

hehe, I thought the idea here at WPW was to work together :)

You seem to have missed my point. I don't want to do SEO work. I mean maybe every now and then when I open up a new business to promote it but not for a living.

On your comment though, isn't the idea os SEO to be able to manipulate the results? That is the entire business. Every SEO expert shoots for that right?

[ctabuk]

Take the challenge, should be good for morale.
Musician, we DO have something in common, I have 8 guitars and my own studios - I'm working with Gary Kemp (Spandau Ballet)& I mentioned Chicago the 70's band, that's because I played with them for a while (Europe Sessions) I have a telecaster with the same Gibson neck pick up as Terry Kath did.It's a Black & Gold 50th celebration of Fender model, what do you play?

[collusion]

I didn't think me and you had something in common. Nice to know we do. I recorded a song I wrote called "Ride til the anger dies" featuring Max A Million. I have the interest of 3 major record labels here in the US. I am a majestic hip hop artist.

[ctabuk]

I started out with a band called Nashville Teens (Tobacco Road) I toured with Albert Lee (The Everley's) and still have the pick given to my by Albert for the Everley Brothers reunion concert. My Son is the saxophonist playing with Neil Sedaka

[collusion]

Nice. I would like to hear some of your work. Do you have it online? I also suddonly see it is time for some website promo here so if you have music go to one of my partners sites www.cdarmy.com

It is a site for musicians to sell their albums online. I have to warn you though, we just moved our hosting company to a new server and the www.cdarmy.net signup site seems to be down and we havn't figured out why yet so you won't be able to sign up today. It is however free so when it works, feel free to sign up!


WAIT! Just checked it and it is up now fully working.

[ctabuk]

OK, we are friends now, my job (unpaid)is to help newbies get their sites listed. WPW is all about respect. I now run a £55 million pound turnover Company in UK Mortgages with a staff of just 5, most people who know me here are aware that I am a really nice guy who makes a lot of dosh, I use that money to help others. Signing off now, catch you later. David

[janeth]

Originally Posted by collusion

hehe, I thought the idea here at WPW was to work together :)

You seem to have missed my point. I don't want to do SEO work. I mean maybe every now and then when I open up a new business to promote it but not for a living.

On your comment though, isn't the idea os SEO to be able to manipulate the results? That is the entire business. Every SEO expert shoots for that right?

I don´t manipulate any results, I just build the sites so good all the search engines rank them high. (-;

[coder]

Originally Posted by janeth

Nice problem to have. I see website design is one of your keywords. Why don´t we have a little contest.

I can not manipulate the search engines like you can but would be willing to say I could rank my site without manipulating the search engines into the top 10 before you can do it while manipulating them.

With over 35,000,000 results for website design on google i'd imagine if you or anyone else here at WPW who can achieve #1 or even top 10 they deserve our admiration. Even if he doesn't want a competition I think you should go for it.

It took us a while to reach #1 and our term only had 8,000,000 results.

Janeth if you are trying to get the top 10 let me know, I might be able to help or give you some encouragement along the way.

[janeth]

We are already number 3 on MSN and got to number 15 on Google but for some reason dropped out of the top 1,000.

Guess we hit a filter. lol

[wednesday]

Originally Posted by janeth

I don´t manipulate any results,

I completly cannot agree with you. 3000+ signatures here and you tell me you're not manipulating the results!? ;) However, that flea is not s3xy.

Martin

[janeth]

It´s all natural, I just love all you so much I can´t stay away.

[collusion]

When I said manipulation I meant the sites are optimized, linked to, and so forth until the sites are ranked for the given keyword. I don't mean shady ways (even though Yahoo! loves SmartPages) and Google as someone pointed out also loves them Someone said in another thread that #3 spot for direct tv news is a SmartPage and I checked it out. He was right, big flaming pile it was.

I guess I have to remember that people here are from different worlds so my new friend ctabuk doesn't quite know that "ya" is slang here in Chicago for "you". So your idea of manipulation results is to use tricks. I will try to be clear next time.

[greeneagle]

brainwash:

"janeth wrote:

I don´t manipulate any results,

I completly cannot agree with you. 3000+ signatures here and you tell me you're not manipulating the results!? ;) However, that flea is not s3xy.

Martin"

I'd like to squash the unsubstantiable rumor that Forum Signatures bring much value if any in IBLs. I have seen this hinted at several times lately. It's utter garbage and I don't want to have to wade through a bunch of meaningless posts.

Anyone familiar with SEO knows that different kinds of links hold different value and that multiple links from one top domain are relegated or resolved down!

You can take any high posting member and check IBLs to their Sites in any SE.

Show me my 2300+ or janeth's 3000+.

Spamming up forums will buy you nothing but other member's ire.

Ken

[ferret77]

Hey janeth

I recently lost my top 10 rankings for "website design" in google.

But my rankings are still good in yahoo, msn.

What can you do? screw it

I don't think your post is to really start conversation, but to brag about your 'mad skills'.

Getting $500 a month from a client is not realy that great if they are in competitive field.

<flood6 edit>

[Maloney]

collusion I have the answers to all your problems.

Take me on as your apprentice, teach me everything you know and I'll take over the SEO for you giving you a cut of the profits. ;)

I also think link building, onpage optimization, etc., is manipulation as it all leads to (and the motivation is) getting the engines to see our pages as we want. That's manipulation.

[Maloney]

collusion I have the answers to all your problems.

Take me on as your apprentice, teach me everything you know and I'll take over the SEO for you giving you a cut of the profits. ;)

I also think link building, onpage optimization, etc., is manipulation as it all leads to (and the motivation is) getting the engines to see our pages as we want them to see them. That's manipulation.

[collusion]

Ferret77,

Purchasing a house that big or even a small one with zero down and absolutely horrible credit is smart business. You must not know about the field that much to say something like that. Leverage is the best way to become an enlightened millionaire. Leverage meaning having as little risk as possible.

Also, $500.00 a month for even the hardest keyword is alright when you really don't care about the field of business you are in. I am happy to work at that amount for small businesses that can not afford a rediculous price.

If you read the initial post at all you would know that I can care less about my mad skills. I do not want to do this for a living was the point. Did it fly over your head? Well I hope I havn't offended anyone but you with this one. It probably would have been a good idea for you to follow the thread entitled "seo is a joke" before you attempted to offend me. It might have prepared you for what was to come of your post.

For anybody else reading this that knows me, please understand I didn't start this one. My toes have been stepped on with the name calling.

P.S. - Maloney, I would love to assist you :)) I must say that I followed your posts and I do not think you really need that much help though..

<flood6 edit>

[ferret77]

"Purchasing a house that big or even a small one with zero down and absolutely horrible credit is smart business"

I guess, but like I said isn't it better business to buy stuff for cash and pay no interest.

Do you cosider it good business to buy furniture at rent-a-center also?

"Also, $500.00 a month for even the hardest keyword is alright when you really don't care about the field of business you are in."

umm, I guess but if you work for $500 a month so someone else can make $10,000 a month

<flood6 edit>

[collusion]

That is why I do it. I work that cheap to help people. I know I can make a ton of cash from my efforts. I choose not to.

Secondly, purchasing a real estate property with nothing down can not be compared to purchasing furniture at rent a center. How can you compare something when one of those things depreciate in value while the other (real estate) hardly ever does? You are not making any sense. That is why you can not even begin to finish this argument. Either way, we should probably find a real estate forum if we are going to continue this. I am sure experts in that type of forum would love to hear your ideas of a nice investment like rent a center. And to answer your question, NO it is not better to buy real estate in cash. Why? because you will never get rich that way. If it was your intention to just live in the house and die there go ahead but if you are trying to maximize your profits in the business then you use as little of your own cash as possible (LEVERAGE).

<flood6 edit>

[flood6]

I edited out most of the more inflammatory statements made in this thread. If you're wondering why, please review the forum rules. If you still have questions, please PM myself, another Mod, or Mike.

I respectfully ask that if there is an SEO-related topic to discuss in this thread we get back to it. I'm sure real estate investing and learning about each others axes would make for lively breakroom topics, should someone care to start a thread there.

Thanks!

Hugs and Kisses,
Damian

[collusion]

I just had a major realization. I do not hate my work as a SEO. I am just shot! I want to be able to make it fun again and I guess I have been doing it so much that it just became work.

[cspelts]

Originally Posted by collusion

I just had a major realization. I do not hate my work as a SEO. I am just shot!

I've come to realize that I'm the same way at times. I think it's a common thing for creative people to get inspired and enthused, and then push really hard, almost to the point of exhaustion - and then need a nice long break.

[Kumarkun]

I have a bit of a problem. I'm fairly new to SEO so im still just learning really. I have a site that contains no external (there are also no other sites linking to it) and i would like to get it listing higher under google. I was hoping if anyone could give me some advice on getting the ranking up on a page without using anyway external links. I have setup keywords and gone the through the content and structured it as best i can. Short of re-building the entire site, i'm stuck for ideas. Any advice would be much appreciated.

[greeneagle]

hello Kumarkun,

Welcome to WPW!

A good place to start for yourself or a client is with an online competitive analysis. Review competitive Sites and search their listed links in the top 3 SEs (search engines) see who they are linked to. "link:www.targetdomain.com" works wonders, especially in MSN. Are there "gorillas on the Block"?

After that make sure and research geographical relative directories that may apply.

You can also go here: http://www.webproworld.com/viewtopic.php?t=21900 and find enough directory links to post till you bloody your fingers!

Best Regards,
Ken

[ctabuk]

You have backlinks, not a lot but you do have some.You have a 'voice over' on your site, now I could be totally wrong, but I think big G does not like them, I am certain there was a thread somewhere, any takers?

[Kumarkun]

Hi Ken, thanks for the advice :) and the welcome.

The site is a provider of protective films for windows; UV filters and the like to prevent UV damage to interiors and furnishings.

The site is aimed soley at the UK market. I have done some research in the the keywords. The best words i could find are all quite competetive (pretty much every other site in the same industry is using them and i cannot think of any that are more appropriate).

The client will not allow any links to other sites on his site and is un-willing to pay for PPC ad's.

I'll have a look at the competitors links, cheers.
By the way what do you mean by "Are there 'gorillas on the Block'?".

Cheers, Mark

[Kumarkun]

Originally Posted by ctabuk

You have backlinks, not a lot but you do have some.You have a 'voice over' on your site, now I could be totally wrong, but I think big G does not like them, I am certain there was a thread somewhere, any takers?

hi ctabuk,
Do you mean the video/audio that is on mylittlefish? That is all encapsulated in a flash movie that is embedded on the page. Google should just ignore that shouldn't?

[greeneagle]

Kumarkun:

"By the way what do you mean by "Are there 'gorillas on the Block'?"."

That is a marketing term that indicates relative strength of the competition! - Does anyone hold an extremely dominant position?.....

If so, pay particular attention to everything they have done! Review code, links etc...

Many engagement clues there...

Ken

[wednesday]

Originally Posted by greeneagle

brainwash:

I'd like to squash the unsubstantiable rumor that Forum Signatures bring much value if any in IBLs. I have seen this hinted at several times lately. It's utter garbage and I don't want to have to wade through a bunch of meaningless posts.

Anyone familiar with SEO knows that different kinds of links hold different value and that multiple links from one top domain are relegated or resolved down!

You can take any high posting member and check IBLs to their Sites in any SE.

Show me my 2300+ or janeth's 3000+.

Spamming up forums will buy you nothing but other member's ire.

Ken

I guess you've omited the joke in my post. ;) Ok no jokes with the signatures value anymore. Apologies.

Martin

[Kumarkun]

Originally Posted by greeneagle

Kumarkun:

That is a marketing term that indicates relative strength of the competition! - Does anyone hold an extremely dominant position?.....

If so, pay particular attention to everything they have done! Review code, links etc...

Many engagement clues there...

Ken

Cheers Ken,

I'll do just that.

Thanks again,

Mark