SEO is a joke

collusion · #1 (**permalink**) 03-05-2005, 11:02 AM

I do search engine optimization and positioning for a living and I always see other seo's complaining about how hard it is to get ranked in Google.

Contrary to belief, it is 80% based on optimization. The key here is that alot of SEO's have their own opinion on if a site is optimized or not.
A site you show me that you claim is optimized is most likely not.

Sure, a few IBL's are nice to have but there are sites ranked on the top of Google for hard to get keywords and they have hardly any IBL's at all compared to the competitors.

It is all about keepig your optimization in tune with Google's algo. When they change their algo, thats when you change your optimization.

Well, how do I do that you ask?
Sorry, can't tell ya. I would be giving up monthly checks if I did that!

andromeda · #2 (**permalink**) 03-05-2005, 12:17 PM

If getting a good ranking is only about following the changes in Google's algo... then how do you explain sites that haven't done *any* updates whatsoever on their site for more than a year - and still maintain a steady #1 position? I've always assumed it was due to their thousand+ backlinks.

collusion · #3 (**permalink**) 03-05-2005, 12:35 PM

Sites that maintain a top ranking, they usually know the "secret" to following the algo and tiny changes are made that you wouldnt notice just by looking at it. Backlinks help, like I said SEO is 80% of the deal. The other 20 percent comes from backlinks, relevant outbound links and so on.

Have you ever thought that some of the sites you speak about might be "owned" by a Google employee or someone that is key to their operation?

collusion · #4 (**permalink**) 03-05-2005, 12:38 PM

I should point out that I have most of my traffic come in from Yahoo! anyway. I do not like Google at all because in their quest to become relevant, they exclude very relevant websites based on what they think is a great algo. 90% of the time I can not find a quality company through Google but I find what I need 100% of the time with Yahoo!

collusion · #5 (**permalink**) 03-05-2005, 12:40 PM

I should point out that I have most of my traffic come in from Yahoo! anyway. I do not like Google at all because in their quest to become relevant, they exclude very relevant websites based on what they think is a great algo. 90% of the time I can not find a quality company through Google but I find what I need 100% of the time with Yahoo!

Elite Skills · #6 (**permalink**) 03-05-2005, 02:40 PM

Yahoo is slow in updating. I don't know what you're talking about because Google has been way better in providing relevency and updating their algorithm often, analyzing the results. Yahoo crawler is still a lemming compared to the google crawler.

It's not 80% optimization. It's all about inbound links keyword rich links from high ranked sites. I'm not going to makeup a percent, but it has the greatest weight.

collusion · #7 (**permalink**) 03-05-2005, 03:23 PM

You can continue to think its all about IBL's. I will also continue to get your disappointed customers.

It is for the most part optimization. If you did a search for the word lingerie on Google, you will see that one of the sites has over 100,000 IBL's and one of the sites have just 4 IBL's. But you must know what you are talking about (sarcastically said).

You may want to reconsider your thinking when it comes to SEO and I guarantee you will be satisfied if you do.[/img]

freehits · #8 (**permalink**) 03-05-2005, 03:34 PM

Well your statement and the SEVEN links in your signature dont really agree with one another.

collusion · #9 (**permalink**) 03-05-2005, 03:47 PM

the links in my signerature probably wouldnt agree with my statement seeing that I havnt optimized them for Google quite yet. You might want to direct your bright ideas to the previous post I had that said the sites ranked for lingerie have completely different IBL #'s. Come on. I do not want to make anybody look dumb or ignorant to the SEO world even if you call yourself a professional. I want you to look at the facts. IBL's don't matter. I already proved this in my previous post.

Now prove that optimization don't matter and then you can begin to argue with my statement. I am sure that any site you decide to show me that is "optimized" really is not optimized and it most likely don't rank well.

Elite Skills · #10 (**permalink**) 03-05-2005, 03:47 PM

Only trying to help you. Don't have to get offended.

haha, about the 4 inbound links, it helps if you don't click the sponsored ads.

Otherwise

Show me an example.

But you can't find one huh?

collusion · #11 (**permalink**) 03-05-2005, 03:56 PM

I am not offended with your ignorance at all. Don't apologize.

Those sites don't have a ton of links going to them that make a significant difference in the rank.

collusion · #12 (**permalink**) 03-05-2005, 03:59 PM

Here is an example. The restaurant market is very competitive in Chicago. Do a Google search for Chicago Fine Dining and FrankieJS.com comes up #9. They do not have alot of links compared to their competitors. The site IS very optimized for that phrase however.

P.S. I am not discounting IBL's at all. When FrankieJS.com gets more IBL's I am sure it will climb to #1 but right now it doesn't and it is top 10.

wednesday · #13 (**permalink**) 03-05-2005, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elite Skills

Yahoo is slow in updating.

I completely cannot agree with this. Yahoo is the fastest responding search engine! A word in your h1 reflectects in the serps within 48 hours.

Martin

collusion · #14 (**permalink**) 03-05-2005, 04:18 PM

I agree with you brainwash. I have had a great time with updates in Yahoo!.

Elite Skills · #15 (**permalink**) 03-05-2005, 04:31 PM

FrankieJS.com and #1 spot have equal amount of inbound links, but overall, the quality of sites linking to the #1 spot is better.

Try again.

Just check your query logs. See what yahoo does compared to what google does.

Google crawls more frequently
Yahoo Gets side tracked and looks at the same page many times.

collusion · #16 (**permalink**) 03-05-2005, 04:37 PM

Ok, you just contradicted yourself, the #1 spot has a higher quality of IBL's. If this is the case and google actually does look at the quality of IBL's then FrankieJS shouldnt even be in the top 10. There are many more websites trying to get that phrase that are much better, and that have high quality links. The point is that FrankieJS.com spent less time looking for quality IBL's and somehow managed to grab a top 10 spot. You try again.

collusion · #17 (**permalink**) 03-05-2005, 04:45 PM

I have a good idea. Why don't we save alot of time. You simply start promo on a webste that is not optimized for Google, make sure it don't have high quality IBL's also and it is at least a 6 month old website. Optimize it correctly and submit it to Google. You will save yourself alot of time and see that I am right. I am not trying to prove you wrong. I already did. I am trying to help you see what is going on so you don't see SEO as a struggle. Alot of SEO's see it as a struggle to keep up with the changes but the fact is that no matter what "changes" are made, it actually stays the same.

What can you count on at all times when it comes to keeping up with the algo? Simple. Find out what sites are currently ranked for your keyword. These top 10 sites define the algo. Look at each one of them. You will notice that one site has the keyword in charactor position 11 and another one has the same keyword in position 15. Common sense says put your keyword somewhere in between 11 and 15. Do this through every aspect of the site until your website matches the current algo. IBL's will never again count because Google knows that quality IBL's can be bought.

Elite Skills · #18 (**permalink**) 03-05-2005, 08:07 PM

Just check any highly competitive keyword. There's plenty of good well optimized sites.

It's about the keywords in inbound links. Inbound links provide the rank but the keywords dictate for what keyword to improve the ranking.

I don't have to really prove anything. Maybe you'll see it someday but I'm enjoying outstanding success.

SEO is easy. Just make quality content and people will link to it. The more they refer to it on the web, the higher the ranking.

Not too complicated but arrogance muddles everything.

I'm done with you.

collusion · #19 (**permalink**) 03-05-2005, 09:06 PM

You seem to be done with your career. Either way I have outstanding success also. Feel free to send your client my way after you fail.

Faglork · #20 (**permalink**) 03-06-2005, 07:26 AM

Collusion.

I am no moderator, but don't you think it *might* help to tone down a bit? Words like "I am not offended with your ignorance at all. Don't apologize." and the like are NOT the best way to get people to discuss your ideas. Unless you want to do monologues ...

Just my thoughts.

Alex

collusion · #21 (**permalink**) 03-06-2005, 10:02 AM

I am in no way trying to offend anyone. I am trying to get it across that I already know for a fact what I am talking about. Like right now for example. At some point SEO's started saying Hey I know for a fact that IBL's count the most! When it first begun I am sure the first SEO that figured it out got a bunch of people arguing and saying never. Now IBL's don't count and in a few months SEO's will be saying hey guess what, IBL's don't count and we figured it out. I am giving notice that I figured it out. If someone wants to chalenge me like "Elite" has I will not stand down when I am right.

Just please try out what I said and you will see, or don't and I will continue to be right.

stretch dog · #22 (**permalink**) 03-06-2005, 06:21 PM

Man, i agree with faglork... chill!

There is no one magic bullet for achieving a top 10 position in the serp's. True, there are things that should be avoided at all costs, most of which are pretty obvious and common sense... but the fact is that both collusion and elite skills claim to be successful at what they do, so is it not possible that they have both found a magic combination of seo and linking that works for them?

Obviousl IBL's 'can be' important, but the days of manging hundreds and thousands of direct recpriprocal links on links/resources pages and expecting them to contibute much of anything to your se position are numbered. Almost everyone does it and the se's just aren't that stupid.

On the other hand, good honest non reciprocal contextual links, using good anchor text, placed right within good quality content can be like gold when they're coming from a quality, topic related site, or authority site.

Seo is important, but if you know how to use common sense when laying out your content, then most of seo is just that... commmon sense and happens pretty much by default when writting page titles, meta tags, headers and copy...

There are a lot of different elements that are used by the modern day se, which makes for may different combinations... if you do a good job on one, you can probably be a little sloppy on the others... but wouldn't it be better to just do a bang up job right across the board. The se's would end up with better results to serve up and the user would have more quality results to choose from.

It's all about to change anyway... lol!

Ps... collusion... i had a quick look at the FrankieJS.com and donn't see how you can say that it is well optimized for 'Chicago Fine Dining'. Granted it isn't a terribly competitive term, well defined, but still.... shaky page title, no description tag, abundance of useless meta tags, no external style sheet resulting in mega formating tags, table instead of full css, poor use of hx and i could only find the search term intact once....

I'm not being critical so much as i am confused. I don't be pretend to know everything about seo, for that would be a fools domain... i do plan on being at it for a good long time though so thought you might comment.

greeneagle · #23 (**permalink**) 03-06-2005, 07:22 PM

collusion,

I am going to have to agree with several comments by your opponents here:

Your post is too commercial.

I don't see that you have added any value to the knowledge bank here throughout the thread.

Generally speaking, if you want to win over business, you initially bait with some new insight, a different angle or something to peak interest! What is your "headliner". "Everyone is stupid" doesn't get it done!

We also do not allow "personal attacks" here, let me quote you:

Quote:

"I am not offended with your ignorance at all. Don't apologize."

That kind of inflamatory comment is just not acceptable and does not fit within the WPW use guidelines. Did you read them, before you signed on?

Several members that have countered you here are very knowledgeable and in my opinion - right on.

You need to consider a different Marketing and Sales approach.

I don't moderate this thread.
I don't like to step into others "domain".
But, we all help others here - That's the way we work.

Provide useful information or engage in valuable discussions that contribute to the community knowledge chest here, or don't post! That's my recommendation.

Ken