Why do people panic over PR

**ctabuk** · #1 (**permalink**) 01-17-2005, 10:13 AM

Greetings, I had a meeting with a Lender and they introduced me to their website http://www.infinitymortgages.co.uk

PR of 4 - Good SE results - but go to source (VIEW on your browser) and ask yourself, why all the panic about PR? - No tags, no description, no keywords, but the site itself has what you all need -CONTENT
It is intended for Intermediaries - they only deal through brokers, so this is purely to demonstrate how some sites get listed

rivux · #2 (**permalink**) 01-17-2005, 11:17 AM

PR has nothing to do with tags, descriptions, keywords or content, it has to do with links to your site.

**ctabuk** · #3 (**permalink**) 01-17-2005, 11:32 AM

This site has 60 links to it! I thought as you did until I read all of this, I know it's Google, but all SE's (or at least most) have some form of PR
http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=6139

rivux · #4 (**permalink**) 01-17-2005, 12:58 PM

Actually no, PR (PageRank) is unqiue to Google, its their patent and trademark. Yahoo has their WebRank which is entirely different but PR is just google. And Google only uses inbound links to determine PR, as PR is a keyword-independent value.

How you rank, and what your PR is are two different things and are not always related to each other. You can rank #1 for a term with a PR0, or you can rank 100th for a term and have a PR10.

The point of your msg seemed to be that this persons website had 'optimization' and yet it had a PR4/Good results. Im just saying that those things are unrelated.

greeneagle · #5 (**permalink**) 01-17-2005, 01:11 PM

rivux:

Quote:

PR has nothing to do with tags, descriptions, keywords or content, it has to do with links to your site.

You sound pretty set there rivux, maybe you can help me with my delima on this Site; www.tubeltechnologies.com . In the last update (around the beginning of the month) they went from a PR4 (index - 3s internally) to a PR6 with 5s internally.

Never a linking program, Virtually no IBLs anywhere, use any tool you want.

Don't feel bad when you can't justify it, no one else wants to touch the topic either!

LOL
Ken

SEOforGoogle · #6 (**permalink**) 01-17-2005, 01:31 PM

greeneagle -
Could the PR boost be from inclusion in DMOZ?

rivux · #7 (**permalink**) 01-17-2005, 01:35 PM

A lack of an explanation for a specifc case does not reduce the validity of a statement overall, there is a huge difference between causation and correlation.

Your case isn't unique in that the quantity and quality of backlinks doesn't add up to what we believe should be the correct PR. In most cases its the opposite where someone has 600 backlinks and still has a PR of 2. But what we know about PR, how it does work, how it should work and how its calculated, it all points to only including links, not on page elements.

My personal experience from a site which was blank(just opening and closing html tags) which had a PR5 from 4 links affirms by belief in it not being related to onpage elements. But like I said, that example doesn't prove its links only anymore then your example proves its also onpage elements.

Since we will never know what the exact PR formula is, then you have to go by the percentages. And the percentages say its link based, which is what I will continue working with until the time comes when the facts prove otherwise.

AndrewX · #8 (**permalink**) 01-17-2005, 01:53 PM

Greeneagle,

Yahoo is currently showing you have (or had, at at sometime least) a link from the WPW homepage!

http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=lin...gle=1&ei=UTF-8

That's a pretty good source for PR. Maybe that, plus your existing PR4 just got you over the hump for PR6...?

**ctabuk** · #9 (**permalink**) 01-17-2005, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rivux

Actually no, PR (PageRank) is unqiue to Google, its their patent and trademark. Yahoo has their WebRank which is entirely different but PR is just google. And Google only uses inbound links to determine PR, as PR is a keyword-independent value.

How you rank, and what your PR is are two different things and are not always related to each other. You can rank #1 for a term with a PR0, or you can rank 100th for a term and have a PR10.

The point of your msg seemed to be that this persons website had 'optimization' and yet it had a PR4/Good results. Im just saying that those things are unrelated.

Hi, if that is the case, could you explain this ?
http://forums.seochat.com/archive/t-10752

AndrewX · #10 (**permalink**) 01-17-2005, 02:36 PM

ctabuk, which part of the seochat thread are referring to?

rivux · #11 (**permalink**) 01-17-2005, 06:08 PM

As AndrewX said, what part of that applies to this conversation? We are talking about Googles PR, not Yahoos WR.

**incrediblehelp** · #12 (**permalink**) 01-17-2005, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ctabuk

PR of 4 - Good SE results - but go to source (VIEW on your browser) and ask yourself, why all the panic about PR? - No tags, no description, no keywords, but the site itself has what you all need -CONTENT

To move this conversation along...I don't care about the PR issue, that tool bar could be wrong right now for this website or the website could have this PR value from just ONE IBL:

www.eurocatalyst.com/speakers2004a.php

or a couple of strong Out Bound Links. This OBL phenomenon has been happening to a lot of website. You have some strong OBL and you PR goes up. Who cares if that happens...are your rankings going up because of these OBL?

Anyhow, my interest is in these "good SE results". What keywords are you seeing this website rank for currently that you consider good?

Blayne · #13 (**permalink**) 01-17-2005, 08:07 PM

This is the first time I have read about strong outbound links affecting PR It could be due to lack of sleep and not reading the posts as often as I used to. Has this been proven?

**jawn_tech** · #14 (**permalink**) 01-17-2005, 10:05 PM

I had a site get a PR of 2 simply with one single ibl from a site with a PR 4. It's not only how many ibl's, but the PR from those IBL's that matter. A couple high PR ibl's does almost the same thing a few hundred low PR ibl's do, for your site's PR.

freddieb · #15 (**permalink**) 01-18-2005, 01:09 AM

I may have missed something in my S/E optimization studies. Can anyone tell me the relevancy or PR? I can't see that it has anything to do with the all important S/E results for a key word/phrase that is entered.

Am I wrong, if so, please correct me.

**ctabuk** · #16 (**permalink**) 01-18-2005, 04:26 AM

Good Morning, well it is here. Rivux and AndrewX, if you like - my reference to Yahoo is simplistic, as I stated all SE's use 'some form' of PR - OK I have now seen the copywrite thing for Google and the Yahoo equilevant, but if I had thought that this was purely a Google thing - I would have posted it there.

I use several links to methods, I like widexl - so when I ran a links check on their site they had No links from Google, 14 in Yahoo,15 in All the Web 16 in Altavista and not alot anywhere else. So here you have a site with a Google PR4 with no Google links.
I am as technical as an ashtray on a motorbike, I am to use my favourite word 'Simplistic'- my original question stands, why do we get so PR hooked?
As I see it, we are all here to help each other, I'm good at what I do and that is to get my site noticed on every SE, but I use non technical methods, I simply submit to Directories and post in a few forums, I don't have massive backlinks, but I do now have over 500 page one entries on about 16 keywords and by following all the great tips here at WPW it has worked. One example, I read everything I could on Teoma and now if you search 'Right to Buy' my site is 1 and that led to Ask Jeeves also listing me at 1. Ask Jeeves is advertising on UK TV, I'm a happy guy. Thanks to all of you.

mlevenhagen · #17 (**permalink**) 01-18-2005, 11:43 AM

Blayne,

Quote:

This is the first time I have read about strong outbound links affecting PR It could be due to lack of sleep and not reading the posts as often as I used to. Has this been proven?

This last update did a lot of strange things that can't be explained. Strong outbound links is a theory...

I've been studying sites that have little for inbound but still have a high PR. It's become a hobby:)

There are similarities between sites that are experiencing this. Most of them are professional websites (mortgage, insurance, industrial). Most of them do carry Outbound Links to high PR sites or authority sites. And oddly they all carry some sort of legal statement, disclaimer or privacy statement... an about us... SO they are just real professional websites. Validation might even come into play from there...

...this is per my research so far... it's just a small sampling of websites.

My theory is maybe there are industry factors that come into play. You might be provided an automatic boost if you have a professional website structure with links to important websites etc... MAYBE.

And this may only effect the Google Bar; JUST FOR THE BENEFIT OF THE SEARCHER... It certainly doesn't say that you are ranked at all in the SERPs... I think it's more for the surfer and Googles internal PR is used with more factors to come up with a ranking in the results pages...

...

mgillis · #18 (**permalink**) 01-18-2005, 01:23 PM

I've been working steadily over the past 8 months to improve positioning and PR. Somehow, with only 86 links I've achieved a PR5 for www.emperex.com.

Honestly, although I'm happy, I don't get why. The links themselves are not overly strong - most of the pages we link to rank lower than mine, perhaps this is making us an "authority site"? I think that in total we link to 4 authority sites and a few slightly more important download sites. We are also included in every major directory.

The information on my site does not refresh very often, maybe 1 every month or 2 new info is added and maybe 1 time per month we do some tweaking to our optimization, so I don't think that we are considered an "important" site.

This has lead me to believe that perhaps our ranking is based on something more nebulous - like content.

In any case, I'm now aiming for PR6, I doubt I could get any higher.

More interestingly, www.fiberglasscourses.com holds number 1 and 2 in Google for a "Canada" search and number 1 for regular search for our chosen keywords. It has a PR2, and has no links other than directory links (only free submissions were used). So maybe the PR5 IS just a product of links.

It's all a mystery to me.

royston · #19 (**permalink**) 01-18-2005, 03:38 PM

I do not have any incoming links on www.forecourtsonline.co.uk yet I hav a P.R of 3.

I think its a load of nonsense. And I would not care if I did not have any P.R because I used to get listed no1 on google when I did not have any now that I have 3 I have gone down to 5-9

royston