Current MSN to Beta - How do your RANKINGS Compare?

[~0]

http://search.msn.com/

http://beta.search.msn.com/

Different Algorithms are being used - that are COMPLETELY Distinct

Which ones do you prefer?

Have you begun Optimizing for what may be 1/4 of all Search Engine Users

How does your current ones compare to the Beta

[Sabo]

Our sites are showing better results in the beta search, e.g.

We are not rank here for the keyword "Mexico city" with 8 millions results with our site www.mexicocity--hotels.com

http://search.msn.com/results.aspx?F...=mexico%20city

But in the beta search engine.
http://beta.search.msn.com/results.aspx?q=mexico+city

We are in place #8 with 25 millions results, with the same keyword, "Mexico city". I think it's a huge difference don't you think?

[esiegel]

I'm coming up first for Additive Masterbatch for both...
More detail on the second.

[themissy]

A site I'm working on has much better results in the beta than in the old MSN.

I just did a bunch of Google checks yesterday, which made it pretty easy to compare results with the MSN beta. They're eerily similar -- most of our Google top-tens are also MSN beta top-tens, and almost all of them are the exact same position in both.

[csc]

I just checked a few keywords for our site:

Much much better!

http://search.msn.com/

http://beta.search.msn.com/


Main 2 keywords ranks 1 and 2 from 19000 competitors, Not a big competitive keyword but this will definitely help the site as it was on the second page previously.

I really havn't been following this new msn development so can anyone advise if the old msn search is being deleted and only this new beta engine is being used or will there still be a choice, I sure hope so. :-)

Cheers

[MathsIsFun]

I also am doing much better on MSN's beta, as I was on techpreview.

I got to thinking, "why are so many webmasters reporting better rankings on MSN?"

One conclusion I have drawn is that MSN likes optimised sites, whereas Google fights against them.

So, if we were to act out of self-interest we would be helping to promote MSN (who loves us?) vs Google (who, rightly or wrongly, sees us all as spammers).

Thoughts?

[csc]

Originally Posted by AvgJoe

One conclusion I have drawn is that MSN likes optimised sites, whereas Google fights against them.

So, if we were to act out of self-interest we would be helping to promote MSN (who loves us?) vs Google (who, rightly or wrongly, sees us all as spammers).

Thoughts?

I agree totally........Google was good a few years ago but now I cannot fathom them out and often when searching I receive terrible sites that have poor infomation, no PR and SEO work but they rank 1-10.

Its gone downhill since they mentioned the IPO listing.....$$$$$$$ for them in google ads is what they are pushing for 100% sure.

If MSN does the right by me( and it appears my work is paying off) I will be happy to sing their praises!@!

MSN MSN MSN!!! HO HO HO.

Still anyone know if the old engine methods are being deleted and if the beta site is the new one to work with?? or will both be online and picked up by the smaller engines??

Cheers

[csc]

Originally Posted by AvgJoe

One conclusion I have drawn is that MSN likes optimised sites, whereas Google fights against them.

So, if we were to act out of self-interest we would be helping to promote MSN (who loves us?) vs Google (who, rightly or wrongly, sees us all as spammers).

Thoughts?

I agree totally........Google was good a few years ago but now I cannot fathom them out and often when searching I receive terrible sites that have poor infomation, no PR and SEO work but they rank 1-10.

Its gone downhill since they mentioned the IPO listing.....$$$$$$$ for them in google ads is what they are pushing for 100% sure.

If MSN does the right by me( and it appears my work is paying off) I will be happy to sing their praises!@!

MSN MSN MSN!!! HO HO HO.

Still anyone know if the old engine methods are being deleted and if the beta site is the new one to work with?? or will both be online and picked up by the smaller engines??

Cheers

[RikR]

I am #1 on old one, #2 on beta on search for "two way radio".

[OneMoreBite]

Google doesn't care for my site, OneMoreBite-Weightloss.com. For instance, I searched Search.MSN.com for "weight loss before after pictures" (without quotes). I'm listed as No. 1 in the MSN regular search, No. 4 in the Beta MSN Search and my site is nowhere to be found on Google.com.

Another interesting fact about the Google results is that despite the search being about weight loss photos, the first several listings are for plastic surgery results. Not relevant, IMO.

Frankly, I don't know what it takes to get a decent listing in Google.com and I've stopped trying. Most of my traffic comes from Yahoo.com at this point. I'm happy with the MSN results though. ;-)

Kathryn

[hrozob]

My site is also showing on the first pages for many keywords I do not show in Google.

Yeah, maybe MSN likes optimized sites.
Why not??
If I optimized mi site for the keyword "peru airfares" is maybe because I offer good airfares to Peru.

I think optimizing a site is a relevant part of the site to be considered when displaying results on a search engine.

[theiceman]

Originally Posted by ~0

http://search.msn.com/

http://beta.search.msn.com/

Different Algorithms are being used - that are COMPLETELY Distinct

Which ones do you prefer?

Have you begun Optimizing for what may be 1/4 of all Search Engine Users

How does your current ones compare to the Beta

On the beta, pages from my website, http://www.proweddingphotos.com rank #1 and #2 for my main search phrase. On the regular search, my websites rank #2, #3 and #5....each of 3 different sites hold one of those positions.

ice

[ukeyoc]

Mixed results. The most recent of my sites is the first for all the keywords but some of the oldest are getting a little worse results.

[DVDsPlusMore]

Count me in -- another website owner *very* pleased with the new MSN search!

I've struggled to get Google "past the gates" while MSN bravely marched in and indexed several hundred pages. Lots more to go ... but they are off to a great start.

Never imagined I'd be rooting for Microsoft, but they seem to have done this more right than wrong.

Best,

James @ DVDsPlusMore

[kservik]

Awstats in cpanel doesnt show information on MSN bot spidering me. Does anyone know the IP? On search results it spidered some of my sites today.

[brian.mark]

I don't see much difference between Ask, Google, Yahoo, and MSN for our site. Just one out of 200+ terms that I've tried for our parts site are we substantially different than in Google or Yahoo, so it's just another engine as far as I'm concerned. We're top 5 in all 4 for those terms with plenty of other sites listed, so I guess I'll just be happy they didn't totally mess up the whole search thing.

How long until Microsoft gets greedy and offers top placements for money or starts to favor Microsoft hosted sites? I'm really concerned about the hosting platform coming into their algo at some point in the future.

Brian.

[Datrio]

I must say I'm surprised. I'm the webmaster of a Polish Final Fantasy gaming site. I tested the search with site:.pl final fantasy on MSN, MSN Beta and Google.

Seems like Google doesn't index my site at all (http://ffuniverse.pl/) and I still can't figure out why. We aren't even in the first... 20 pages. We have a PageRank of 2, but are rejected by DMOZ.org all the time.

Now MSN liked us a little more... 80th place, not bad, eh? Yeah, crappy.

What about MSN Beta? Wow, we're on the first place! That really surprised me, but now I'm not sure is that good, or bad. You see, the second site in the MSN Beta search if a very old, test site, which wasn't updated at all for over 2 years now.

I'm really not sure what algorithms is MSN using, but let me tell you one thing - they're sure strange.

[PikoTech]

Can't fault the Beta.

14th on the old MSN for very competitive keywords, 1st on the Beta for the same keywords, plus a lot of other numer 1 postitions for other keywords which are also fairly competitive.

On Google I don't show up anywhere really worth mentioning for this website. Granted, not too many backlinks for it, it's new so I guess it's expected.

Common MSN, get it launched! :)

[MtraX]

Hi

Flattering results for us on our most competitive keywords too, I'm happy - but what I don't understand is which 1/4 we're losing? We're also ranking within the top 3 on both. The BETA seems to be doing a great job spidering our site.

MtraX

[FiveGrand]

Similar results for our site.

16th on old MSN, 1st on Beta, 171 on Google...

Horray for MSN beta!

[esiegel]

OK...so here is my question...
We are all seeing favorable results. I'm up from nowhere to 1st.

someone else is up from 171 to 1st or 2nd.

So where are the sites that are 1st or 2nd now?
We are all happy...but not everyone is going to agree...and will it last?

[crankydave]

Originally Posted by esiegel

OK...so here is my question...
We are all seeing favorable results. I'm up from nowhere to 1st.

someone else is up from 171 to 1st or 2nd.

So where are the sites that are 1st or 2nd now?
We are all happy...but not everyone is going to agree...and will it last?

#1 on current, #1 & #2 on beta. Good question. Where are the replaced sites.

Dave

[incrediblehelp]

Originally Posted by ~0

http://search.msn.com/

http://beta.search.msn.com/

Different Algorithms are being used - that are COMPLETELY Distinct

Which ones do you prefer?

Have you begun Optimizing for what may be 1/4 of all Search Engine Users

How does your current ones compare to the Beta

Well isn't the beta their own search index and the one being served to the general public still using the some of the old Inktomi search database? This is the real difference. I must say I have to agree that I like the beta results more than the current public search. It appears that this beta versions likes optimized websites. Google results seem to be full of "trusted" sites that contain page data that doesn't really match what the searcher is looking for.

Google would rather rank an Amazon, eBay.com, or Dealtime for many search queries now instead of ranking a website that actually matches the search query and will make the user happy. I think Google might have a case of Spamphobia.

[qbania]

I'm seeing fairly good results for "sportsbook review" "football sportsbook" "wager on football" and "football wager". I'm waaay higher in betamsn than I am in most google searches for similar keywords. Can't complain here. http://www.wageronfootball.com

[PikoTech]

Originally Posted by esiegel

So where are the sites that are 1st or 2nd now?

Simple, they are called eBay, Amazon, [insert popular name here], etc

Maybe not so good for those who are searching for eBay but I couldn't care less.

If everyone did start using the new MSN Beta overnight for all their searches I wonder what it would do to the profit margins of these huge over-valued, over linked to sites.

Hmmm

[Tjaart]

I'm impressed.

My whole site has been indexed and I'm ranked where I expect to be ranked. Right at the top for most of my keywords.

Even for my most competitive keyword (Phuket Hotel) I rank in the top 20 compared to Google' 413.

And it's not like my competition has not been indexed yet. They're all there, and right where they should be. :-)

Bye-Bye Google. Hello MSN. :-)

Tjaart
Siam Excursions

[FiveGrand]

Originally Posted by FiveGrand

Similar results for our site.

16th on old MSN, 1st on Beta, 171 on Google...

Horray for MSN beta!

YIKES!!

Today our site appears on page 3, instead of position 1, which is worst than the original MSN search...

Horray for AdWords!!

[Claud]

Originally Posted by ~0

http://search.msn.com/

http://beta.search.msn.com/

Different Algorithms are being used - that are COMPLETELY Distinct

Which ones do you prefer?

How does your current ones compare to the Beta

For "powerful appearance" and "professional appearance" www.powerfulappearance.com ranks #1 on search.msn.com but on the beta I didn't find it on the first pages. So I don't like the new one from this point of view until now. By the way, is it possible that for the new beta search engine they "sent" another robot that didn't indexed this site yet? My guess is that they use the search.msn.com database and they changed the algo only.

Also, does anyone know how you can see on what position you are in the beta search engine for a certain keyword? Without installing any rank checking tools, something that could be used online. Thank you

[~0]

http://beta.search.msn.com/docs/submit.aspx?

Generally our web crawler, MSNBot, can find most pages on the Internet. However if your site does not appear on MSN Search, you can send us the address (URL).

Type the characters from the picture
In the box below, type the characters that you see in the picture. This helps ensure that a person, not an automated program, is submitting the URL.

If you don't see the picture, make sure your browser is set to allow images. If you change the image setting, refresh this page to continue.

Characters:

Type the URL of your homepage
MSNBot follows links from your homepage to find other pages on your site.

Example: http://www.example.com/.

[Claud]

That's interesting:

If you occasionally get high traffic from MSNBot, you can specify a crawl delay parameter in the robots.txt file to specify how often, in seconds, MSNBot can access your site. To do this, add this syntax to your robots.txt file: 
user-agent: msnbot 
Crawl-delay: 120

If you still find that MSNBot is placing too high a load on your web server, please send us e-mail and we will help you find the cause. Include details about the issue and excerpts from your log so that we can provide you with appropriate information.

I guess this is one difference between Google and Msn/Yahoo.

Also, I've seen that MSN recommends the use of SEO companies and "submission services"

If you have followed our guidelines and still do not see your site, you may want to work with a search engine optimization company or submission service. These companies may provide tools that will help you improve your site so we can list it.

Is Microsoft going to create and release a submission program :)?. Just kidding

[buddhu]

On MSN beta we rank #1 for most of our top keywords. That's easily as good as we do on Google, and better than on Yahoo. At first glance I also reckon that, from a user's point of view, the MSN beta results are quite relevant and free of crap compared to G and Y!...

As a long time open-source fan and detester of Micr*s*ft, it pains me to say that they seem to be doing a pretty good job so far with this.

[ctabuk]

It's like going back in time, my results are as bad as the first day I started! Anyone else?

[daemon61]

Currently im best ranked on MSN beta, #3, so i cant wait to come out of beta:)

[AGS]

This is just my opinon and you can trash it all you want but here is a few things to think about

MSN vs Google

There is alot of us singing praise for the new results in MSN beta (Including myself). It is after all the battle of the search engines and we are the arttillary. I for one enjoy my rankings on the new MSN and also cant wait until its released fully to the public, as my logs dont show very many searches from the new beta, but my rankings are extremely pleasing in beta.

For all of us with great ne ranks I would assume that a majority of us were suffering in google ( correct me if i am wrong ) I have visited alot of the sites mentioned in this thread and there is one presence we all seem to have in common. ADSENSE.

If we all have this running on our sites and have horrible rankings in the google index but great results in MSN it is my opinon that this is a strategic move by MSN. One being a future move to release a similar program via MSN that will ultimately make you decide one or the other, and why not MSN gives these sites super rankings and then down the road offers you a way to make money... I for one would switch in a heartbeat if this does end up happening and I believe it will.

Google on the other hand offers the program and boasts that it does not enhance your ranking whether or not your in the adsense program. ( there is nothing wrong with that position mind you ) But look at what people have been saying in earlier posts.

"if my results stay like this in MSN, I will sing their Praises" If you think about it even just for a minute it makes sense.

They would already have indexed sites that have relevant content all ranked well in the search results ( MSN Search That is ) They would then offer a program similar to adsense, and why not? Its added revenue for Microsoft, They would allow you to have one or the other.. Makes sense takes away revenue from google. You would keep your good rankings.

Google on the other hand offers you nothing other than a means to make minimal $$ , your forever working to get decent results in the index and all you work never pays off, and when it does they change the algorithm for whatever reason.

Microsoft is the leader in OS systems for the average computer bought at your local computer store and all these OS will include MSN search in them in some fashion. Why not offer a similar service to webmasters? Its coming

Your opinions are appreciated.

[webmasterjunkie]

IMO

Beta can't be using IBL as that much of a factor, If you do a search for "buy a home in southern maryland" the site I just made comes up in number #1. I only have like 4-10 IBL's that I know of. In the old MSN I am not even in the rankings.

Now I don't know about you, but I think a SE that doesn't focus on IBL's as much would be a great thing.

[flashfast]

In Beta MSN Search we are now #1 wheras before didn't even rank.

I agree that google has suffered in that they have such piss poor results these days. i shouldnt complain I guess - they bring a lot of visitors but rank us 10th. That's okay but 8 out of the top 10 results are mostly forums, whereas the keyword is very very content specific (for a desktop download). Sure, if I were searching for xml info a forum might be good, but why so many forum results? One is a forum that looks like 3 people have posted to it in a year. Anyway, I'd say users quickly sift through the mostly useless results and find us. But in the same search words Yahoo and MSN Beta rank us #3 and #1 respectively, and all the other results are specific to that keyword. Because of this I find myself using Yahoo more and more for my searches. Never thought I'd see the day I'd abandon google.

I think Google, if it places so much priority now on forum and guestbook results, then it should have another section for them (search web, images, forums etc.), freeing up the real results.

2 cents (again)

Jeremy

[paulhiles]

Current MSN results are generally quite favourable, but yesterday when I tried the beta version, I was in the top 2-3 positions.

I've just tried again to check a few more results, but the site is "temporarily unavailable". Hope I didn't break anything! :o)

Paul

[ctabuk]

Help, call me stupid, call me mad, I don't mind honestly. I am UK based,(there's an excuse) I have fantastic ratings on all the majors, but zilch on this Beta thing. Will Bill Gates push this out in the UK? As the 'Near to' thing does not work here yet, or at least not on my searches, all I get for my keywords are USA sites. Do I have to re- arrange my metatags? Or create a whole new text page just for Beta. I'm pretty near top on MSN as was, how will it pan out?

[Maximilian]

Originally Posted by ctabuk

Do I have to re- arrange my metatags? Or create a whole new text page just for Beta.

Howdy - ctabuk!

I provided some of the new MSN search optimization guidelines here:

http://www.webproworld.com/viewtopic.php?t=31798

Cheers!
Max

[ctabuk]

Thank you Max! Received and understood

[jonpaul]

I like the new bata version, on the old version I searched on hanging monkey for my web and I'm placed 30th, on the new bata version I'm in position #1 and #2.

More of this would be nice :)

[thecat]

What a refreshing change, MSN for me has blown Google out of the water and its still only Beta!
The speed and quality of the results is incredible,

Quality not Quantity is the key and MSN Beta has shown it.

So what if Google boasts 8 billion pages, 8 billion pages which of half are other small search engine and big portals directing you to the page you were looking for in the first place!.

Now we can get the information we need without having to "Crawl" the web.

Your thoughts fellow web people...

regards

thecat

[DriWashSolutions]

Totally agree.

MSN Beta == relevant results
Google == Garbage

[~0]

Already, the transition is starting...


Beta is now being displayed as a default in some areas

apparently, either through a Cookie or by IP Addresses

The SERPs are surprisingly Google-like

[incrediblehelp]

Originally Posted by ~0

The SERPs are surprisingly Google-like

How do you figure?

[seochip]

Originally Posted by AvgJoe

I also am doing much better on MSN's beta, as I was on techpreview.

I got to thinking, "why are so many webmasters reporting better rankings on MSN?"

One conclusion I have drawn is that MSN likes optimised sites, whereas Google fights against them.

So, if we were to act out of self-interest we would be helping to promote MSN (who loves us?) vs Google (who, rightly or wrongly, sees us all as spammers).

Thoughts?

:)) nice ideea to promote the new msn search.MY websites are doing very well in beta search (nr.1 on competitive keywords). Because i know very well my competitors i can say that the most important thing that make the difference is represented by content, a lot of content related to that search.I'm placed well in Google too, but to be nr.1 i know that i need a high PR.I don't like one thing at Google: to much importance to PR.Some times i'm wondering if SEO is good for something?
Conclusion: don't make SEO, make link exchange!!

[seochip]

Originally Posted by AvgJoe

I also am doing much better on MSN's beta, as I was on techpreview.

I got to thinking, "why are so many webmasters reporting better rankings on MSN?"

One conclusion I have drawn is that MSN likes optimised sites, whereas Google fights against them.

So, if we were to act out of self-interest we would be helping to promote MSN (who loves us?) vs Google (who, rightly or wrongly, sees us all as spammers).

Thoughts?

:)) nice ideea to promote the new msn search.MY websites are doing very well in beta search (nr.1 on competitive keywords). Because i know very well my competitors i can say that the most important thing that make the difference is represented by content, a lot of content related to that search.I'm placed well in Google too, but to be nr.1 i know that i need a high PR.I don't like one thing at Google: to much importance to PR.Some times i'm wondering if SEO is good for something?
Conclusion: don't make SEO, make link exchange!!

[~0]

http://search.msn.com/

is now showing the Beta MSN SERPs throughout most geographic regions

A new era - now, no one search engine can MAKE or BREAK a site