Page Rank Question

nezmin2 · #1 (**permalink**) 08-30-2004, 01:24 PM

I have recently come across a program called Traffic Hurricane. It is a php program that supposedly creates 1000 fully optimized pages for your selected keywords.

I have a affiliates page in my main website and am curious about something. If I used a program like this and linked it to my affiliates page in my main site, will it drag my page ranking down?

Has anyone else tried this program?

cbp · #2 (**permalink**) 08-30-2004, 06:20 PM

Its called spam. I hope it drags your ranking down.

CBP

rlrouse · #3 (**permalink**) 08-30-2004, 10:05 PM

You're playing with fire.

jawn_tech · #4 (**permalink**) 08-31-2004, 10:31 AM

Lol..., what the others wrote...

I've never heard of it, but as you described it --- yes, it's playing with fire, and automatically generated web pages as such is spamming and should be burned with kerosene and buried. Put the human spirit behind your web pages -- pages with the purpose of providing society with content that can contribute to the www. Even if it's product pages, etc, great. But anything that is automatically generated for the sake of generating traffic is a nuisance, and I can't imagine any SE that wouldn't do anything in their power to rid itself of it like a roach problem. If they're not on to it yet, they will be.

I would steer clear of it. Hope that helps.

jestep · #5 (**permalink**) 08-31-2004, 11:01 AM

I would say it is less like playing with fire, and more like lying down in a fire.

Jamie

aperey · #6 (**permalink**) 08-31-2004, 12:47 PM

This is definitely unethical and shouldn't be done. It is also dangerous to you and hurtful to other webmasters and honest persons putting up useful information on the web.

GSO · #7 (**permalink**) 08-31-2004, 01:07 PM

Here is Google's webmaster guidelines, which defines what not to do:
http://www.google.com/webmasters/guidelines.html Much success.

nezmin2 · #8 (**permalink**) 09-18-2004, 10:05 AM

Thank you all for your input. There are so many so called web designer resources out there that it becomes confusing to us little guy's. Thank you for educating me on this particular one.

flood6 · #9 (**permalink**) 09-18-2004, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aperey

This is definitely unethical and shouldn't be done. It is also dangerous to you and hurtful to other webmasters and honest persons putting up useful information on the web.

I agree that this software he described is likely to get him banned. Of all the risky techniques available, this one seems like one of better ways to get banned.

However, I don't see it as anything approaching unethical.

Get ready, I’m about to launch into a rant. This is not directed at aperey, or anyone else for that matter. I just have a strong opinion about the “ethics” of SEO. So here we go…

Is it unethical because this software attempts to give a webmaster an advantage over the others? If this is the case, stop participating this forum, stop using Word Tracker, stop studying SEO at all. Because any of those things are ways to help get you a leg up on your competition. In fact, if it is your argument that this is unethical because it gives one person an advantage over another, stop building websites because there are plenty of businesses out there that don't have a website.

Is it unethical because it violates Google's Webmaster Guidelines? If this is the case, again, abstain from any SEO whatsoever. Because:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Google

Another useful test is to ask, "Does this help my users? Would I do this if search engines didn't exist?"

If you are building sites for your users and disregarding search engines, things like "SEO", "keyword density", "SERPs", etc. hold no interest for you. By even considering what effect your actions have on your SERPs you are violating Google's guidelines.

Dictionary.com's primary definition for "unethical" is based on "approved standards". Who sets these standards? Google? Google is a company. Google's primary focus is on generating profits (as any company their size has to be). Do you have any doubt that they are willing to take advantage of nearly any legal opportunity to gain an advantage over Yahoo or any of their other competitors?

Why do people in this industry choose to set their "moral compasses" by a company's guidelines? Google sets these guidelines because it makes it easier for them to produce search results superior to their competitors'; they don't want to have to expend resources on excluding sites that game their algo. They didn't create those guidelines in an attempt to create this utopian internet where everything is "fair"; they didn't and never claimed to.

Most of the world’s economies are based on capitalism and free trade (to varying degrees). Google has a cash cow and her name is named AdSense/AdWords. Webmasters compete against each other with their cold hard cash to see who can be #1. Is it unethical to squash your competition by outbidding them? Even if it was an unemployed guy with two ex-wives, three kids, a mortgage, $5 to his name, and a mammoth smack habit? Nearly everyone in this industry would say, "No it's business."

If you are an SEO professional and you are optimizing sites, is it unethical to use "black hat" techniques on their sites? I certainly don't think so, as long as you make very clear to the client what risks are involved beforehand. Now if you don't tell them they will get banned if caught, I would certainly call that unethical. I believe it was Black_Knight of the Cre8asite forums who, in a post, said something along the lines of:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paraphrased, Black_Knight

While not informing a client of the risks involved with any “black hat” optimization of their site is unethical, if you are a SEO professional and you don’t notify clients of techniques available that could help them achieve their goals of higher rankings, wouldn’t that be considered “unethical”?

If I got anything about this paraphrased quote wrong, forgive me.

So is cloaking, creating doorway pages, search engine spamming, or other similar "black hat" techniques illegal? I know of no law that forbids this stuff as long as you aren't violating someone's copyrights by duplicating their text, stealing their bandwidth, etc. I would be the first to label those techniques "unethical", frustrating, illegal, deplorable, name your word.

The remaining unanswered question is, "Who decides what is 'unethical', who sets 'the standard'?" You and I do. Some people choose to draw the "unethical" line just beyond what they do to improve their own SERPs; anything past that is "unethical". In relation to this subject, I draw this line pretty close to what the American government calls "illegal". I would call anything done with a primary intent to damage another website/company "unethical"; and most anything done under those circumstances is also illegal.

Having said all that, to my knowlege, I'm not doing anything on any of my (or my clients') sites that any major SE would consider banning me for. I'm certainly aggressive with the "wite hat" stuff. I have dabbled with some of the more risky techniques in the past, but I have put way too much work into my sites (the ones that are worth trying to achieve high rankings for, anyway) that I'm just not willing to risk getting them banned; the risk isn't worth it to me. So while I don't participate in any "black hat" (or what I prefer to call "risky") activities, I just don't like the idea of those who do being labeled "unethical".

This seems to be an issue where people who have an opinion are passionate about them, and the fact that I spent the past hour writing this post is evidence of that. Maybe I’ll turn it into an article.

I’m sure most, if not all of these points have been brought up (and disputed) plenty of times before, but you know how it is when you just have something to say...

EDIT: I just wanted to add that I do like Google. It sounded like I was bashing them< I really wasn't.

EDIT2: I can hear it allready, "Sure you like G, you just don't want someone from google to see this and ban your sites." Well, while I certainly don't want that to happen, that's not my motivation for writing the last edit...

Hi, welcome to WPW, I use it like it's my personal blog.