Is Google Spying!?

[amser]

Hi,

When I browse my site (even into password protected areas) then look at my stats, I notice that Googlebot has "followed me" ! Is this because I have a google toolbar??? How else would googlebot happen to drift exactly where I have just visited? Has any one else experienced this?

Ja think that Google uses this method to follow toolbar users around sites and maybe to index or rank pages???? hmmmmm interesting!

[bhartzer]

I wouldn't be surprised if this is the case, as Google gathers a lot of data using the Google Toolbar--a lot more data than you would think.

[cbp]

You agreed to let Google do this when you installed the toolbar. Did you read the terms and conditions?

CBP

[Mel]

I suspect that this is one way Google have of discovering new content.
Do you have the areas of your site that Googlebot is visting restricted in your robots.txt file?

[Dave Hawley]

Is Google Spying!?

Absolutley! However, as cbp has said, you did grant them permission to do so

[sarahk]

And it's also one of the reasons I have the toolbar! I have a low traffic site (compared to CNN.com, say) so I can't rely on viral marketing the way some sites can. If having the toolbar means Google discovers my new content days earlier than it would have without, then I'm really happy!

That said, I might start tracking it on my password protected page and see if "it does get in"!

[Andilinks]

And this "spying" gives them an edge. I do wonder why Google doesn't release a toolbar for the Mozilla/FireFox browser because while the usage is far lower, better informed browsers (the human variety) tend to use Firefox.

I fire up IE on occasion, more often than not it's because of the Googlebar.

But with spyware/adware infestations getting so much worse with IE I am using it less and less. I would install a Googlebar on FireFox though, if I could.

Andi

[xmx]

I use Mozilla on a Linux PC so I never saw the work
of the googlebar in action myself.
I would like to have it available for my browser too.

[techboy]

They collect information from the toolbar, I've had many test pages and tools I've been developing end up getting indexed, not that I care that much. It's all anonymous stat gathering. It's not like there tagging you there's just too much information that would come in.

BTW yea should petition google for that, I use mozilla and firefox all the time and would way rather flush IE :)

[Keimos]

Try avantbrowser,
IE with bells and whistles and free to download.

I have tried firefox but it does not render as well, althouh the form fill does work quite well

www.avantbrowser.com

happy surfing

[ronniethedodger]

Originally Posted by Andilinks

I fire up IE on occasion, more often than not it's because of the Googlebar.

But with spyware/adware infestations getting so much worse with IE I am using it less and less. I would install a Googlebar on FireFox though, if I could.

Well now you can! A talented programmer by the name of Nick Stallman has came up with a hack to the MozDev Googlebar that extends the functionality of the tool to show Google PageRank. The Googlebar PR hack will work for Netscape 7 and Mozilla browsers on both a PC and -- yes, the Macintosh platforms too.

I know that when word first got out about this (courtesy of Aaron Wall) that the site went down temporarily due to the hits it was getting. If you experience that yourself, I do have a copy available for download (just PM me...I do not want to make the address public...although it is in my blog if you dig deep enough. ;0)

[kitty]

All page view software is spyware, it does not matter if it is Google Spyware, AOL Spyware, Yahoo Spyware, MSN Spyware or Gator Spyware.

All page view transmissions no matter how they are gathered should be outlawed period.

http://burns.senate.gov/index.cfm?Fu...elease_id=1077

Support Senator Burns Spyware Bill, contact his office and offer your support today!

[cbp]

All page view software is spyware, it does not matter if it is Google Spyware, AOL Spyware, Yahoo Spyware, MSN Spyware or Gator Spyware.

What rubbish. When you install the Google toolbar, you give permission for the "spying" - you have a choice - if you don't want to be "spyed" on, don't install the software. .... or use a firewall !!!

Why do we need a granny state to mother us? Why do we need Senator Burns (whoever he is) to protect us from ourselves?

CBP

[Dave Hawley]

Spyware by definition is software that spies without your knowledge. Google's toolbar is not Spyware as you must agree to the terms and conditions.

Google is very open about what they do. You only have to set options to show PageRank and you are dislayed a message telling you it has privacy implications.

can stick with the Simpsons for now :)

[kitty]

So if I have been convicted of being a peeping Tom, but my neighbor knows I am a convicted peeping Tom, the next time I look in the bedroom window, since they know I am a peeping Tom that makes it OK, Right?

What do you think of the Google automatic updater that has been called spyware by experts, it updates the data mining software without any notification.

Do Larry and Sergey contact you to tell you the new software that they are downloading?

Do you know exactly what additional information they collect after the automatic update?

[Mel]

Hi Kitty

I think the Senator Burns, et al bill to limit the installation of Spyware is a good thing, but there are IMO lots better examples to cite than the Google toolbar, which is not installed secretly, and which requires that you have to agree to thier terms and conditions before you can install it. In fact I really doubt that the Google Toolbar would be at all affected by the proposed bill, based on what I have read about the bill.

By all means lets place some limitations on this sort of stuff, but lets at the same time remember that the US is not the whole world, just a part of it, and that this bill will have little real world effect if its passed, as the spammers will just register their business in the Cayman Island or somewhere and continue to do the same thing, but out of reach of the jurisdiction of this bill.

[Dave Hawley]

So if I have been convicted of being a peeping Tom, but my neighbor knows I am a convicted peeping Tom, the next time I look in the bedroom window, since they know I am a peeping Tom that makes it OK, Right?

No, not at all. How on earth you are drawing any parallel here (to the Google toolbar) is beyond me. It all seems like desperate propaganda

What do you think of the Google automatic updater that has been called spyware by experts, it updates the data mining software without any notification.

It matters not what the "experts" (whoever they are) call it. Perhaps the "experts" have a financially driven reason. The fact is you must agree to the terms and conditions before installing. See this page for a common defintion of "Spyware"
http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Spyware
It'a all made VERY claer in the second sentence:
the program is installed without the user's knowledge or consent

Do you know exactly what additional information they collect after the automatic update?

exactly no, but I don't know "exactly" what info a lot of software collects. But all *I* need to know is shown simply by clicking the Privacy Concerns link on the toolbar. If I have a problem with wanting to know exactly what, I would contact Google. If I did not like or agree with their reply, I would click uninstall.

[cbp]

What do you think of the Google automatic updater that has been called spyware by experts, it updates the data mining software without any notification.

Did you read the terms and conditions you agree to before installing the Google toolbar??? In there you agreed to these automatic updates. What is your problem with that?

BTW - what experts? - all the discussion that I have seen online between "experts" generally conclude that the Google toolbar is not spyware - BECAUSE WE AGREE TO THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS. What is your problem with that?

Solution is simple if you don't like it - uninstall it!!! We don't need Senator Brown passing a law on it!!!

CBP

[mikmik]

Thanks, ronniethedodgerdude!
Hey, I looked here first, but then followed a different link than your well hidden one...

I found this page, and there is a most unusual link at the bottom, for enquiring minds only, it says. Curious!

[JayDrake]

Originally Posted by kitty

So if I have been convicted of being a peeping Tom, but my neighbor knows I am a convicted peeping Tom, the next time I look in the bedroom window, since they know I am a peeping Tom that makes it OK, Right?

What a terribly broken analogy... If you are a peeping tom, one who peeks into windows without knowledge or permission of those you spy upon, you are doing something wrong. If you ask the person if they'd mind you peeking in their window and got permission to do so it is not at all wrong. Additionally, people would be more likely to say yes to you if you offered to clean those windows while you're peeking.

Google does it's level best to be entirely straight forward and up front about the fact that it will be collecting data from your browsing. Other companies try to hide these sorts of things deep in their usage statements, but are still legitimate because they are asking for your permission before installing their spyware on your computer. While spyware and adware and other such items may be annoying, most of these are doing nothing that you haven't agreed to.

I find it particularly amusing when people complain about spyware and adware that drives them nuts which installed (per the agreement they should have read) along with a file sharing utility that they are using to download copyrighted material. (Hey! I'm trying to break the law here, not be advertised to! This spyware on my peer to peer networking software should be illegal!!!)

[synergytheory]

Originally Posted by Andilinks

I fire up IE on occasion, more often than not it's because of the Googlebar.

But with spyware/adware infestations getting so much worse with IE I am using it less and less. I would install a Googlebar on FireFox though, if I could.

Andi

I do the exact same thing. Use IE to check PR, and also for backend apps that don't like FireFox. I wish I didn't have to use IE at all. One day maybe.

I love FireFox.

[kitty]

So what you are saying is that my banker should let me watch him count money, or maybe the guards at Fort Knox should let me in the vault if I sweep the floor.

Give me a break, talk about a broke analogy. I think yours takes the cake.

Do you know that this technology is the same that is used on terrorists by the FBI.

Do you know that the Government can get the records of your Page Views from Google at any time?

So your freedom is at stake, what if, just like before in this country, they decided that your religion was against the state. Now the government considers anyone who visited certain websites lawbreakers.

You could be held, confined, your computer taken, investigated simply for visiting certain websites.

If you are willing to have this intrusion and violation of your privacy and freedom then you are not really aware of how information can be used against you.

You have a right against self incrimination, well you have just incriminated yourself for visiting certain websites.

Even fake websites are set up and monitored by the FBI to see who visits.

So good luck to all of you who PROMOTE a Toolbar/Spyware Big Brother World.

You all make very little sense as you let these companies walk all over you.

ALL PAGE VIEW TRANSMISSIONS to any third party should be outlawed, period.

[Mel]

Hi Kitty;

While this may be somewhat of a revelation I really have no objections if the FBI keeps a record of every page I visit as I have nothing to hide.

If this technology is helping to rid the world of terrorists, then I say we should be damn glad its in use.

[joliettech]

Hey kitty,

I think your aluminum foil hat may be strapped on a little too tight, relax.

The thing is I didn’t give the FBI permission to spy on my every more, not directly anyway. I did however give Google permission.

Maybe Senator Burns should sponsor a bill to prevent the FBI from spying on me. I’m sure it’s not just the FBI. Pick a government agency, Department of Homeland Security, DOD, NSC, NSA, and who knows how many others. Not to mention the damn satellites and black helicopters.

We have all lost a little of our personnel freedoms in this time of terrorists, at least Google is letting us know what freedoms we are giving up.

[pedstersplanet]

Originally Posted by ronniethedodger

The Googlebar PR hack will work for Netscape 7 and Mozilla browsers on both a PC.

Is it just me or does this link dead?

[JayDrake]

Originally Posted by kitty

Do you know that this technology is the same that is used on terrorists by the FBI.

Do you know that the Government can get the records of your Page Views from Google at any time?

So your freedom is at stake, what if, just like before in this country, they decided that your religion was against the state. Now the government considers anyone who visited certain websites lawbreakers.

You could be held, confined, your computer taken, investigated simply for visiting certain websites.

If you are willing to have this intrusion and violation of your privacy and freedom then you are not really aware of how information can be used against you.

You have a right against self incrimination, well you have just incriminated yourself for visiting certain websites.

Even fake websites are set up and monitored by the FBI to see who visits.

ALL PAGE VIEW TRANSMISSIONS to any third party should be outlawed, period.

Some of this is entirely real, if very unlikely, but the fact still remains that the users of Google's toolbar choose (willingly) to allow Google to monitor their browsing habits. There is no need for this to be illegal.

As far as self incrimination goes, it happens every day in law enforcement offices across the country. You choose to speak without getting legal counsel when the police are interviewing you. You write out a statement and sign it. You are now on the fast track to free room and board and meeting new 'friends'.

If you worry that your information will be abused, don't volunteer it. But when you do volunteer it you have chosen to do so and no longer have a right to whine about it.

Caveat emptor.

[ronniethedodger]

Originally Posted by pedstersplanet

Is it just me or does this link dead?

He has been getting a lot of attention (wonder why) for this PR hack. He just got a new server and domain for it. Try this http://www.prgooglebar.org/ and see if that will get you the hack.

I showed this originally to a friend using a Mac btw. He is now on his way into treatment I think, seems it did work for him ... but he is now over-obsessed with PR watching.

WARNING : If you are a Macintosh user, this toolbar hack may be hazardous to your sanity. Use at your own risk.

[kitty]

YES

[ADAM Web Design]

Originally Posted by kitty

Do you know that this technology is the same that is used on terrorists by the FBI.

Do you know that the Government can get the records of your Page Views from Google at any time?

So your freedom is at stake, what if, just like before in this country, they decided that your religion was against the state. Now the government considers anyone who visited certain websites lawbreakers.

You could be held, confined, your computer taken, investigated simply for visiting certain websites.

If you are willing to have this intrusion and violation of your privacy and freedom then you are not really aware of how information can be used against you.

You have a right against self incrimination, well you have just incriminated yourself for visiting certain websites.

Even fake websites are set up and monitored by the FBI to see who visits.

So good luck to all of you who PROMOTE a Toolbar/Spyware Big Brother World.

You all make very little sense as you let these companies walk all over you.

ALL PAGE VIEW TRANSMISSIONS to any third party should be outlawed, period.

I love conspiracy theories. They're so emotional, twisted and factually selective in their logic they end up being really funny. Anyone remember the old SCTV Big Brother sketches?

First of all, this will never happen globally. There isn't enough information being gathered here that would be used for any harm. As Mel said (and I very rarely agree with him, but I will in this case), what have we really got to hide as far as surfing pages goes? Heaven forbid if anyone knows I frequent major sports sites and web design boards. Big deal. Let them know that.

What harm could it possibly do me? And don't say "they're gathering information". So what? They can't sell my private information, since I don't store it in the toolbar. They may be able to acquire some of it by tracking my IP and contacting my ISP on the slight possibility that they'll give it out...but then what happens? There's about a 0.5% chance that I'll get junk mail or spam? Let them waste their money. I've got spam filters that take out 90% of it and junk mail makes great bonfire material. So all anyone's doing is just wasting their money.

As JayDrake pointed out, even if this were to prove harmful, I made a conscious decision to install the Google toolbar, and it has a wonderful uninstall feature as well. So how do I solve this irksome issue? I take a whopping 30 seconds and get rid of the program.

Excuse me. I'm exhausted from the uninstall ordeal. I need some oxygen. Where's my oxygen tank? Ahh. There it is, under my AM/FM clock radio which is secretly sending signals back to Q107 to let them know I'm listening. UNPLUG! UNPLUG! MUST UNPLUG NOW!

Quite frankly, I don't really give that much of a damn who knows what pages I'm looking at. I'm not hiding anything. Here, have some of the links right now:

http://www.mlb.com
http://www.webdesignforums.net
http://www.nhl.com
http://www.nfl.com
http://www.webproworld.com

Here you go. Take it. It's useless information to you. And even if I do provide it, and anyone happens to read this and starts trying to sell me stuff, I don't buy from anyone that solicits my business cold anyway. I'm a lost monetary cause.

In fact, direct the FBI to it. Please. Let them know what a major international terrorist threat that I am by visiting these obviously illegal websites. Maybe you can get the Canadian government to cooperate with you so that I get extradited faster for my crimes.

The Google toolbar is not the problem here. I do agree that spyware is a problem, but Google is not responsible unless the toolbar user is stupid enough to go using the AutoFill feature, and if the user does that, they deserve whatever they get.

There's also something else that I find both disturbing and ridiculous in all of this.

Originally Posted by kitty

the state. Now the government considers anyone who visited certain websites lawbreakers.

You could be held, confined, your computer taken, investigated simply for visiting certain websites.

If you are willing to have this intrusion and violation of your privacy and freedom then you are not really aware of how information can be used against you.

You have a right against self incrimination, well you have just incriminated yourself for visiting certain websites.

Even fake websites are set up and monitored by the FBI to see who visits.

Even if this is true, and without any evidence of such it's rather difficult to believe, do you not think that they'd be after people who frequent such sites as opposed to those who accidentally visit them? There's a difference, and a damn big one. I may end up on a site that offends me (which not a lot does these days) because of a blind link. It happens. But if I back right out and go somewhere else, is the FBI likely to prosecute? No, because the visitor got in, got out, and went somewhere else.

If someone is visiting a site that promotes illegal or immoral conduct, and they continue to do so on a frequent basis, then I'm all for having those people arrested. Would you rather see the person who frequents a bomb-making site behind bars due to a perceived invasion of his privacy by a policing authority who happened to monitor his/her activities, or would you rather see him have the right to keep visiting the site and eventually use the information to potentially do some much greater damage? I know what I'd pick. Personally, I'd like to see the government here in Canada implement something like that, but it probably won't happen in my lifetime.

And if page view transmissions should be outlawed, how would any of us measure the success of our websites? We'd have no data or raw logs by which to determine which pages people like in order to present them with more relevant content. And if you think that's an unethical use of page view data, consider that the successful use of the page view data would create business growth, which in turn creates jobs, which in turn creates a positive economic effect.

In other words, only knowing page view information cannot be harmful to a user, but can often prove beneficial.

Here's a little free advice for you, kitty: if you're that worried about people spying on you, then perhaps you shouldn't post to public forum boards. Do you know what happens when you post to public forum boards? Your IP gets logged. And those evil moderators will be able to track it and determine where you are. They could rat you out to the FBI as well if they wanted to, since you're clearly spouting off anti-governmental propaganda. You better run for the hills, Ma Barker, cuz they may just call the feds!

[kitty]

ALL TRANSMISSIONS OF PAGE VIEWS TO THIRD PARTIES SHOULD BE OUTLAWED NO MATTER HOW THEY ARE COLLECTED.

I think that some folks have a problem with this and they really do not understand the issues.

You can tell by looking at your server logs which pages viewers are looking at.

You do not need a third party collecting information on your surfing habits.

Google will know the following

1) your web searches and the click throughs on those searches

2) Every web page you view when the toolbar is enabled to show you the page rank gauge, what a good trade for Google.

3) All of your "so called private Email" that you send and receive.

4) Who your friends are and what you say to them (orkut)

5) What you are Blogging about (publishing) they
control the hosting on Blogger, Right Wonder if
Google will data mine this, na.

6) What ads you click on

7) What news you read (Google News)

8) What is on your hard drive (Puffin Software)

Are you willing to let Google create a profile and data mine you just to look at relevant ads? What else will they do with the data, maybe package and sell it to other marketers, no Good Old Google would never, na.

Will you be the first in line when they offer that new software "The Google Brain Implant" that will be the only thing left "your very thoughts" after you use all of their current "software tools" (data mining software)

You may be willing to give over your right to privacy and control of your personal information to Google to look at a Page Rank Gauge, or use a calculator on your tool bar, or to use the Puffin software to search your hard drive, or Gmail.

But many have a bit more wisdom than the BLIND Google Zealots round about.

[ronniethedodger]

Put a sock in it and go bug this guy ---> click here

Sincerely,

Blind Google Zombie Mutant
Google Tracking ID: #23-239729-12 betatype 4
Location: 8th Rock from the Sun

[ADAM Web Design]

Originally Posted by kitty

ALL TRANSMISSIONS OF PAGE VIEWS TO THIRD PARTIES SHOULD BE OUTLAWED NO MATTER HOW THEY ARE COLLECTED.

I think that some folks have a problem with this and they really do not understand the issues.

Again, you refuse to establish exactly why this should be. Who cares? It's page views. It's not any personally identifiable information, so who cares?

And if we don't understand the issues, then you're not explaining them very well, now are you?

Originally Posted by kitty

You can tell by looking at your server logs which pages viewers are looking at.

And how many people can or want to actually read their raw logs vs. a compilation of the data that say a Live Stats or Webtrends can provide? I'd have a very difficult time justifying to my clients "here's your raw logs, just read through those", spending 2 or 3 hours explaining to them exactly how they should be read, and then from there having them constantly forget.

Originally Posted by kitty

Google will know the following
1) your web searches and the click throughs on those searches

Oh my god. Heaven forfend they know this. So does Webcrawler. In fact, they sell (or give away, I'm not exactly sure which) their results to Wordtracker who compiles them and sells them in turn to anyone who wants to do a search engine keyword research campaign. Seems to me that's much worse than anything Google's doing. And even then, this doesn't bother me, nor would it most people. And if you're that bothered by it, there are plenty of other engines besides Google to choose from. Want a list of some? Here.

http://www.yahoo.com
http://www.msn.com
http://www.altavista.com
http://www.alltheweb.com
http://www.lycos.com
http://www.excite.com

Now the evil Google monster can't come up from under your bed and bite you any more. Do you want a cookie and a glass of milk before bed, too? There's a good girl. Now just lie down and we'll wake you for school in the morning.

Originally Posted by kitty

2) Every web page you view when the toolbar is enabled to show you the page rank gauge, what a good trade for Google.

Again, so what? What can they do with this information?

Originally Posted by kitty

3) All of your "so called private Email" that you send and receive.

So they're gonna get into my POP3 client and/or my web-based email client, which by the way has no affiliation with Google, and read this information? Boy, I sure hope Microsoft, Eudora and others release a patch to keep Google from pulling this off.

Originally Posted by kitty

4) Who your friends are and what you say to them (orkut)

So we can't use telephones to call people any more, or better yet meet them face-to-face? Better yet, not using any of the other chat media available isn't an option?

In fact, if that's a big deal, Google's going to know what you've just said here about them. You've really been on their case lately.

Originally Posted by kitty

5) What you are Blogging about (publishing) they
control the hosting on Blogger, Right Wonder if
Google will data mine this, na.

So we can't use LiveJournal or for those of us with sufficient technical and programming abilities, create our own system?

And the last time i checked, the whole base concept of blogging was to publicly publish one's thoughts and opinions. So what you're saying is that Google should not be able to know publicly available thoughts. That, my dear, is called censorship.

Originally Posted by kitty

6) What ads you click on

Well DUH! Of course they're going to monitor that. Advertisers are going to want an aggregate summary of the click-through data, and how else is Google going to get that?

Again...you don't like people knowing this info, don't click on the ads! By not clicking the ads, you're not giving Google any data to mine.

Originally Posted by kitty

7) What news you read (Google News)

And how many other news sites are there out there?

Originally Posted by kitty

8) What is on your hard drive (Puffin Software)

What does this have to do with anything? I'm not asking to be a smartass; it just seems to be an emotional, irrational comment that's just stuck in there for no good reason.

I am no Google zealot, before you lump me in with everyone else. I don't use the engine as my primary engine, and I don't like the direction it is going with its product. But again...there are alternatives (that's a very key word, so remember it). There are other search engines. There are other email clients and programs. And there are other sites that offer the same services as Google does. So if you don't like Google or its affiliated products and services...now get ready, this is going to be radical thinking...

CHOOSE SOMETHING ELSE!!!!!!!!!

In the meantime, I'm with ronniethedodger. Put a sock in it.

[kitty]

Still waiting for the rest of the Google Zealots to identify themselves, please stand up and be counted.

[JayDrake]

Originally Posted by kitty

Still waiting for the rest of the Google Zealots to identify themselves, please stand up and be counted.

Hi, my name is Jay and I use Google. For me, like for many, I started off with Yahoo!, which is known to be a portal search, but as time went on, I just wasn't finding myself to be satisified and moved on to use Google. What started as just the occassional use of the Google search blew up into a full blown Google addiction. As they came out with more ways to use, I used. I started using more on my own time and a year or two into my habit I started using it at work too.

People say that Google enhances their lives. I really don't know. Maybe they're right. For me, I get ups and downs. Sometimes I get all down when I use Google and even violent when the experience just isn't what I wanted it to be, but usually I just feel happy and sit around in my chair enjoying the way life seems to be simpler when I use it.

Yeah... My once or twice a day Yahoo! habit of years past brought me to where I am today. A typical Google whore. Truthfully, just sitting here typing, I'm starting to shake a bit feeling the urge to go fire a query - That's one of my favorite slang terms for using Google.

Oh heck... I'm going to go give in to my urges!

[cbp]

Adam gets my vote for the quote of the thread:

I love conspiracy theories. They're so emotional, twisted and factually selective in their logic they end up being really funny.

Anyone notice the parallels between this thead and the threads we have had on other conspiracy theories ... they all seem to follow a similar pattern.

Kitty - have you noticed how little support you are getting? (BTW - in some of those other threads on conspiracy's I was several times accused of working for Google, so I will get in first - I don't)

CBP

[ronniethedodger]

Originally Posted by cbp

Adam gets my vote for the quote of the thread:

I second that motion.

[kitty]

<MOD EDIT personal comments about another poster removed>

Getting back to the issue of the thread, it is easy for Google lovers to try to cover Google Spyware under the cover of a conspiracy theory.

What a cop out on a debate, you guys run out of debate real quick when presented with reality.

I completely understand you GooLovers having to use accusations of a conspiracy when you really have no defense for the Data Mining/Spyware Software that Google uses to engage in their TARGETED ADVERTISING BUSINESS that generated 95% of their profits.

It is hard for Google Lovers to accept that Google really is not a search engine, but in reality is a Data Miner engaged in the contextual advertising business.

Who knows maybe they will diversify and start selling data to the Government, then maybe it could be 50% advertising and 50% electronic data sales.

Please justify your defending a spyware company to the internet community who are also your fellow webmasters.

I look forward to your response.

[cbp]

Getting back to the issue of the thread, it is easy for Google lovers to try to cover Google Spyware under the cover of a conspiracy theory.

1. You are the one expousing the conspiracy theory
2. It has been stated numerous times that when we install the Google tool bar we give Google, by agreeing to the terms and conditions, to do what you are complaining about
3. If you do not like that, do not install the tool bar

What a cop out on a debate, you guys run out of debate real quick when presented with reality

Who is having a problem with reality? The reality is that we have a choice if with intall what you allege is spyware. (You have the same choice)

Please justify your defending a spyware company to the internet community who are also your fellow webmasters

JUST DO NOT INSTALL IT - and if you do, read the terms and conditions - whats complicated about that!!!

Have you not noticed that no one is agreeing with you?

CBP

[cbp]

MODERATOR COMMENT

As this thread is starting to follow the pattern of previous 'conpiracy threads' with the first comment about an individual rather than the topic, I will not hesitate to lock it if it happens again.

CBP

[Dave Hawley]

Are you willing to let Google create and data mine you just to look at relevant ads?

Absolutely! If I didn't, I would not have agreed to their Terms and Conditions.

Kitty, you seem to be avoiding this very important aspect, i.e agreeing to Terms and Conditions.

<sacarsism>
However, if the FBI are to use this info to stop terrorsism then perhaps we should stop this right now! It's much better to have someone you love blown to bits than have Google be aware of which web pages I visit.
</sacarsism>

[peteinoz2]

Originally Posted by JayDrake

Hi, my name is Jay and I use Google. For me, like for many, I started off with Yahoo!, which is known to be a portal search, but as time went on, I just wasn't finding myself to be satisified and moved on to use Google. What started as just the occassional use of the Google search blew up into a full blown Google addiction. As they came out with more ways to use, I used. I started using more on my own time and a year or two into my habit I started using it at work too.

People say that Google enhances their lives. I really don't know. Maybe they're right. For me, I get ups and downs. Sometimes I get all down when I use Google and even violent when the experience just isn't what I wanted it to be, but usually I just feel happy and sit around in my chair enjoying the way life seems to be simpler when I use it.

Yeah... My once or twice a day Yahoo! habit of years past brought me to where I am today. A typical Google !bleep!. Truthfully, just sitting here typing, I'm starting to shake a bit feeling the urge to go fire a query - That's one of my favorite slang terms for using Google.

Oh heck... I'm going to go give in to my urges!

Hey Jay "brother"

come join me @ www.google-annonymous.com

we have fun, Note.. leave laptop at home ok :)

[acornwebworks]

Originally Posted by kitty

What a cop out on a debate, you guys run out of debate real quick when presented with reality.

I completely understand you GooLovers having to use accusations of a conspiracy when you really have no defense for the Data Mining/Spyware Software that Google uses to engage in their TARGETED ADVERTISING BUSINESS that generated 95% of their profits.

It is hard for Google Lovers to accept that Google really is not a search engine, but in reality is a Data Miner engaged in the contextual advertising business.

I think they *have* been responding to your points, but they are not agreeing with them. That doesn't mean they are copping out.

I think, rather, that you are getting frustrated that no one seems to care that Google is data mining or that they are doing so for purposes of their targeted advertising business.

Since so many webmasters and/or their clients advertise, they may appreciate the value of targeted advertising more than you do. Since so many webmasters and/or their clients use Google AdWords, they may appreciate Google's efforts to gather this information more than you do. Since so many webmasters are concerned with PR, they may be more willing to trade for this information than you are.

The main points in this thread - that Google was very clear on what it was doing and that each one of them can control Google's access by simply uninstalling the program - says that these folks have each made a willing, conscious decision to allow Google access to information, and that they felt Google allowed them far more fair warning than many other of the spyware and adware programs out there.

Personally, I think a bit less of a "The sky is falling!" approach at the very beginning on your part could have led to a more fruitful discussion. I certainly can appreciate your concerns, but the fact that other people don't share them doesn't mean that they're right..or they're wrong. It just means other people don't share them.

[Dave Hawley]

I think the problem for Kitty could be that, some of us our clouding the issue with facts.

[Andilinks]

I wrote a long, rather sarcastic, and I think amusing answer to Kitty. Then I deleted it because I think I am (or should be) above such ridicule. I couldn't write Kitty a serious answer no matter how hard I tried, because I can see how she handled the serious answers that were offered by others.

So rather than waste reasoning power, or sink into ridicule I am going to ignore Kitty.

Andi

[Dave Hawley]

But many have a bit more wisdom than the BLIND Google Zealots round about.

They would be the ones that say no to the Google Toolbar terms and conditions. Sooooo, just who are you trying to protect?

Please justify your defending a spyware company to the internet community who are also your fellow webmasters.

It's already been pointed out that the Google Toolbar is not spyware by defintion.

Spyware
http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Spyware
It'a all made VERY clear in the second sentence:
the program is installed without the user's knowledge or consent

[kitty]

The following is the opening question in the first post.

-----------------------------------------------------
When I browse my site (even into password protected areas) then look at my stats, I notice that Googlebot has "followed me" ! Is this because I have a google toolbar??? How else would googlebot happen to drift exactly where I have just visited? Has any one else experienced this?

Ja think that Google uses this method to follow toolbar users around sites and maybe to index or rank pages????
-----------------------------------------------------

The answers to your questions are the following.

The reason that Google follows each page view is because their spyware (toolbar) that autoupdates without user knowledge is a complete data mining tool. You do not know what information that it collects, has Sergey and Larry been able to give anyone a honest answer, no they avoid the question.

They have Blind Webmasters defending them who they have fooled by getting them to believe in a PAGE RANK GAUGE IN EXCHANGE FOR COMPLETE PAGE VIEWS TRACKING bargain, so why should they admit that is is a complete data mining and privacy invading scheme by Google.

If anyone really wants to learn more about the truth of what Google is doing read the following page.

http://www.google-watch.org/krane.html

Ronniethedodger gave us this link in his post, but not this above very important communication with Google executives. It reviews web page tracking in detail.

The government gave it up (carnivor program) but Google is still at it.

[cbp]

If anyone really wants to learn more about the truth of what Google is doing read the following page.
http://www.google-watch.org/krane.html

As soon as conspiracy theorists start saying "the truth"... they loose me.

We are all familair with the author of that site and the one sided views.

Have you seen:
http://www.google-watch-watch.org/
for the TRUTH about Google watch.

And also:
http://searchenginewatch.com/serepor...le.php/2175251
For a sensible analysis of the conspiracy crap from Google Watch.

I know whose version of the the truth I would rather believe.

spyware (toolbar) that autoupdates without user knowledge is a complete data mining tool. You do not know what information that it collects,

I will type this slowly, as you appear to have missed it in the numerous previous posts:
When you install the Google toolbar, in the terms and conditions, it tells you what information they collect and you agree to it. The terms and conditions also say that the toolbar will autoupdate without your permission, and you agree to that. If you do not agree to this happening do not install it

You talk about "the truth" - why do you keep ignoring this fact. I suppose there is nothing like a good fact to ruin a conspiracy.

CBP

[kitty]

CBP, you should know that the publisher of Google watch watch was the first member of the GOOGLESPYHALLOFFAME. He is a moderator (Google Spy) at Sitepoint forums (ASPEN).

Everyone should know not to trust a Google spy, they are planted on all of the forums (GOOGLE GUY)

Next can you explain for the forum members why Danny Sullivan the publisher of SearchEngineWatch, whom you have been so kind to leave a link for quotes Daniel Brant the Publisher of GoogleWatch.org so many times in his articles?

The readers can go pull all of Danny's Articles at the link CBP gave. I am sure they will find many references to him in Danny's articles.

This man studies the CIA, are you smarter than he is about these issues CBP?

CBP, if the guy is such a crackpot, why does Danny Sullivan reference him in the following article, can you explain?

http://www.clickz.com/experts/search...le.php/3358551

[cbp]

You are now making your agruments look even more ridiculous by accusing people of spying.

When will you deal with the facts. I will repost this in hope that you will answer this fact:

When you install the Google toolbar, in the terms and conditions, it tells you what information they collect and you agree to it. The terms and conditions also say that the toolbar will autoupdate without your permission, and you agree to that. If you do not agree to this happening do not install it

You talk about "the truth" - why do you keep ignoring this fact. I suppose there is nothing like a good fact to ruin a conspiracy.

CBP

[kitty]

CBP, did you not read the post on the different ways Google collects and builds a information profile on the users of its software products or must I post it again.

The Toolbar is only ONE of the datamining (spyware) software programs Google uses.

1) Toolbar

2) Cookies

3) Gmail

4) Puffin desktop hard drive search

5) Orkut

6) Blogger

7) Google News

8) Google Search

I am sure that the readers will find many more data mining Google programs to list, lets let them have a say!