Page names using _ or -

[corporateface]

I am optimizing a site and sometimes I use the technique of using the page names to describe the page. I am optimizing a site for a VoIP company.

Is it better to use page names like

voip-company-about.htm

or

voip_company_about.htm

Thanks

[Dave Hawley]

Bit hard too say for sure. I would however go with: voip-company-about.htm to play safe. Try not to use more than 3 keywords in the page name though. Google will still index then but they look spammy and unprofessional.

[adore]

Google recognizes only hyphen as a space but it doesn't have impact on SERPs, so it's not very important how your pages is named.
I don't know if any other major SE does take into account page name while determining SERPs - probably not.

[onelife]

I noticed a couple of weeks back that in certain search results the page names and directory names were being highlighted in Google and Yahoo.

For instance
http://www.google.co.uk/search?sourc...ner+nottingham

You will see my site a position 7. Notice the directory names and file names highlighted. Obviously I don't know how much weight the search engines are giving these details.

Previously I have my files located as pt/uk/notts etc. then changed to personal_trainers/nottingham since these changes have been made I jumped from position 800+ to 6-8. Sure there is probably more to these new search results than file naming but I can definitely state that things have improved for my site.

[adore]

Originally Posted by onelife

I noticed a couple of weeks back that in certain search results the page names and directory names were being highlighted in Google and Yahoo.

Please notice, that they are also highlited when the keyword is a part of longer word, e.g. when I look for 'compet' - it's also highlited in the domain name 'ffecompet' of 'hotelcompet' - it's probably just a pure highlighting without any additional value.

Originally Posted by onelife

You will see my site a position 7. Notice the directory names and file names highlighted. Obviously I don't know how much weight the search engines are giving these details.

Google stopped using this criteria a long time ago - why? Answer is simple - because it was very easy to cheat.
Changes you've noticed might be caused by initial boost (new pages) and some kind of update which has happened recently (or maybe is going on right now).

[Dave Hawley]

Google recognizes only hyphen as a space but it doesn't have impact on SERPs, so it's not very important how your pages is named.
I don't know if any other major SE does take into account page name while determining SERPs - probably not.

That is 3 assumptions put forward as fact. Nobody know any of that to be true.

IMO. Keyword page names are good practice for 4 reasons.

1) It is a human visible factor that cannot be shown differently to humans and robots. Google, and other SE's, focus on such factors as one cannot show different text to robots than to humans. In other words it is NOT easy to cheat.

2) When somebody searches using keywords they then scan the results page looking for the words they used. Having the same word(s) in the page name gives an added edge.

3) It is makes good logical sense to name pages relevant to what they are about. Basically good organization.

4) If another page links to yours using the page name you automatically have keyword anchor text. Something which Google almost definitely uses.

All of this, to me, begs the question 'Why wouldn't you use keywords as page names?'


corporateface, you need to be very careful when looking for advise. Some assume they know Google's algo when in thruth they do not, nobody accept a select few at Google do.

Often, as mentioned above, by simply asking yourself, "why wouldn't I.......?" answers a lot!

[cbp]

'Why wouldn't you use keywords as page names?'

My approach to this has been, use them for new pages as I agree with Dave's benefits. But the benefit to be gained from it is small, so its not worth changing the name of existing pages.

As a DMOZ editor, a site with a lot of hyphens does set of a 'red flag' in my mind. While in itself, all the hypens are not spam - I always ask myself 'what else are they doing?'

Imagine you were are DMOZ editor (or even just a visitor to the site) and you were confronted with this URL:
http://www.french-wines-winebaskets-...-winegifts.com
(this is a real one I just picked up at Resource Zone) - what does that URL say to you? It says spam to me (even though it may not be)

CBP

[Mel]

Originally Posted by adore

Please notice, that they are also highlited when the keyword is a part of longer word, e.g. when I look for 'compet' - it's also highlited in the domain name 'ffecompet' of 'hotelcompet' - it's probably just a pure highlighting without any additional value.

Google stopped using this criteria a long time ago - why? Answer is simple - because it was very easy to cheat.
Changes you've noticed might be caused by initial boost (new pages) and some kind of update which has happened recently (or maybe is going on right now).

I would be very interested to know what you base this assumption on. Everything that I see leads me to the conclusion that Google does in fact place some ranking value on keywords in the page name.

[adore]

Originally Posted by Dave Hawley

1) It is a human visible factor that cannot be shown differently to humans and robots. Google, and other SE's, focus on such factors as one cannot show different text to robots than to humans. In other words it is NOT easy to cheat.

(...)

All of this, to me, begs the question 'Why wouldn't you use keywords as page names?'

It is easy to cheat in terms of making keyword-rich page names while building sites.
Anyone can name his page like this: keyword1-kewyord2.html (or even longer) - why people don't do that?
I think it's not just because of too long page name - it's probably not profitable in terms of seo.

Of course all my statements here are just speculations based on my observations and reading different forums and might be false as well. I just want to say that I didn't notice any boost because of keyword-rich page names (which I use along with non-keyword page names).

[Dave Hawley]

Anyone can name his page like this: keyword1-kewyord2.html (or even longer) - why people don't do that?

Of course they can, and should IMO. But, as I said 2 or 3 is about the limit.

The reason I say this is hard to "cheat" is because the page name seen by the SE algo is the same as what the user sees. In other words, no cloacking. So. it's NOT easy to cheat as it's very much WYSIWYG unlike many other factors.

Of course all my statements here are just speculations based on my observations and reading different forums and might be false as well

Your post was worded like your 'beliefs' were fact. E.g

"Google stopped using this criteria a long time ago"

"Google recognizes only hyphen as a space but it doesn't have impact on SERPs, so it's not very important how your pages is named"

[pcarlow]

voip-company-about looks like 3 words to Google.
voip_company_about looks like 1 word to Google.
The keywords in filenames are taken into consideration when calculating the results page.
Definitely go with the first one.

Patrick

[jestep]

The keywords in filenames are taken into consideration when calculating the results page.

I disagree. If the file names are taken into consideration, which I know of no one that has any formal evidence that this is correct, it is by a very small amount.

There are always pages that rank well reguardless of what the url looks like, with the exception of geocities, tripod, etc. Use which ever page you think looks the best.

The links coming into your site will have much more weight than anything.

[adore]

Originally Posted by Dave Hawley

Of course they can, and should IMO. But, as I said 2 or 3 is about the limit.

What about keyword-keyword-keyword.html names then?

[cbp]

What about keyword-keyword-keyword.html names then?

We are all smart webmasters, but we are also visitors to these sites. Would you buy something from a site that used a URL like this? How credible does it look to you?

CBP

[Dave Hawley]

What about keyword-keyword-keyword.html names then?

Unless you are talking about horribly loooonnnng keywords, I would (and have) do so. E.g

project-management-software.htm

mobile-phone-sales.htm

.....

[tiger1]

I was searching for some tips on how to SEO file names and came upon this thread. Read it through - but not much the wiser.

<<<<<<
Keyword page names are good practice ....
<<<<<<
I am starting from this premise ... but I am also very much aware of the potential problems discussed in this post,
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
As a DMOZ editor, a site with a lot of hyphens does set of a 'red flag' in my mind. While in itself, all the hypens are not spam - I always ask myself 'what else are they doing?'
<<<<<<<<<<<<<

So, if I have a keyword domain, for example, internet-marketing.com, is there a distinct SEO advantage in naming a file on internet marketing articles, internet-marketing-articles.htm
instead of,
articles.htm

If the SEO advantage is negligible then I would rather use the latter (shorter) naming-style, because
1. it's shorter and thus easier to organise,
2. and also because I think, internet-marketing.com/internet-marketing-articles.htm has less human appeal.

To summarise, my question is:
Would the longer version, internet-marketing.com/internet-marketing-articles.htm rank better in the SERPS?

I know that facts are hard to come by ....so I'll settle for members' opinons/experience.

Thanks all.

[Dave Hawley]

Originally Posted by tiger1

So, if I have a keyword domain, for example, internet-marketing.com, is there a distinct SEO advantage in naming a file on internet marketing articles, internet-marketing-articles.htm
instead of, articles.htm

For a domain I would go for either a VERY short easy to spell and remember word. Or, a short single keyword or 2. Not much chance of getting either these days!

If the SEO advantage is negligible then I would rather use the latter (shorter) naming-style, because
1. it's shorter and thus easier to organise,
2. and also because I think, internet-marketing.com/internet-marketing-articles.htm has less human appeal.

There is conflicting views on whether it has any advantage for SERP's. I'm still of the opinion it does help, but by how much....??? See my post a few above for my reasoning.

To summarise, my question is:
Would the longer version, internet-marketing.com/internet-marketing-articles.htm rank better in the SERPS?

I wish I knew. However, if you domain has some keywords in it I would not repeat the same in a page name.

[tiger1]

<<<<<<
For a domain I would go for either a VERY short easy to spell and remember word. Or, a short single keyword or 2. Not much chance of getting either these days!
<<<<<<<<<<
Just to clarify - I am asking about the naming of files within a website for SEO purposes. Nothing to do with how to choose a good domain name!!! But thanks anyway.

[adore]

Originally Posted by cbp

We are all smart webmasters, but we are also visitors to these sites. Would you buy something from a site that used a URL like this? How credible does it look to you?

CBP

I don't evaluate the credibility (it's of course low) however I believe there would be people who use this kind of naming pages just in order to have high rankings...
And I cannot see any examples which is some kind of indication for me that it (probably) doesn't work...

[adore]

Originally Posted by Dave Hawley

Unless you are talking about horribly loooonnnng keywords, I would (and have) do so. E.g

project-management-software.htm

mobile-phone-sales.htm

.....

I means links like: software-software-software.html.

[Dave Hawley]

I means links like: software-software-software.html

In that case a BIG NO!