Do you still consider MSN?

[innominds]

It's definitely the worth the time to spend. I get about 20-30% traffic from MSN/Live/Bing.

[bobchrist]

It get easier to rank there if you're already doing better in Google however taking extra efforts will be bonus.

[Doc]

Until very recently, I was focusing only on Google and Yahoo, in that order. I've started looking at MSN in the last couple of weeks, because I'm seeing more traffic come in from there. I suspect it is in part to peoples' curiosity on the new Bing push. But I'm going to keep watching it, and see how I rate there.
I imagine that going after Google and Yahoo will work well for me on MSN as well.

[innominds]

I don't think a separate SEO is required for ranking in BING.
If you are well in terms of Google and Yahoo, then you would definitely rank in BING too.

[deepsand]

Originally Posted by Doc

Until very recently, I was focusing only on Google and Yahoo, in that order. I've started looking at MSN in the last couple of weeks, because I'm seeing more traffic come in from there. I suspect it is in part to peoples' curiosity on the new Bing push. But I'm going to keep watching it, and see how I rate there.
I imagine that going after Google and Yahoo will work well for me on MSN as well.

MSN has always, for the Penn State Ticket Man's site, yielded high value PPC traffic. Very low volume; but, with low CPC & very high Conversion rate, ROI is higher than for either Google or Yahoo.

And, with little competition there, it's pretty much a set it & forget it campaign; very little time required for monitoring and maintaining.

It's all in the demographics, those of an SE's user base compared to those of yours. In this respect, online marketing is no different from earlier forms of direct marketing. Lessons learned from direct mail, news print, radio and TV campaigns of decades ago still apply. Find out who your customers are; then, go to where they are.

Customers aren't going to stand up and yell "Hey, Mr. X Salesman, I'm over here; come sell to me." Finding out who and where your customers are requires an ongoing deliberate effort, a testing of various venues and sales techniques, evaluation of the results, etal..

Those who write off a venue such as MSN, without adequate testing & re-testing, will never know what potential business they've deprived themselves of.

[Doc]

Originally Posted by deepsand

MSN has always, for the Penn State Ticket Man's site, yielded high value PPC traffic. Very low volume; but, with low CPC & very high Conversion rate, ROI is higher than for either Google or Yahoo.

And, with little competition there, it's pretty much a set it & forget it campaign; very little time required for monitoring and maintaining.

It's all in the demographics, those of an SE's user base compared to those of yours. In this respect, online marketing is no different from earlier forms of direct marketing. Lessons learned from direct mail, news print, radio and TV campaigns of decades ago still apply. Find out who your customers are; then, go to where they are.

Customers aren't going to stand up and yell "Hey, Mr. X Salesman, I'm over here; come sell to me." Finding out who and where your customers are requires an ongoing deliberate effort, a testing of various venues and sales techniques, evaluation of the results, etal..

Those who write off a venue such as MSN, without adequate testing & re-testing, will never know what potential business they've deprived themselves of.

I agree with your logic, deepsand, but you've got to admit, it's no great surprise that a ticketmaster type site would have a great conversion rate. People don't usually go to a ticket site just to browse...they go, already having decided to buy.

That notwithstanding, though, your logic is sound, IMO. I just happen to think that if I'm trying to jump through the G & Y hoops, odds are pretty good that M$N isn't going to be displeased with the result.

You know that my experience level in SEO is somewhere around novice. It's all I can do to keep up with part of what Google's looking for. If I try to worry about MSN and a half dozen other smaller SE's, I'll be in a rubber room in no time.

And there are those that think I'm already overdue for it.

[deepsand]

Originally Posted by Doc

I agree with your logic, deepsand, but you've got to admit, it's no great surprise that a ticketmaster type site would have a great conversion rate.

Actually, the conversion rate for web sites in the secondary ticket market isn't all that great; the norm is 0.5-1%.

Originally Posted by Doc

People don't usually go to a ticket site just to browse...they go, already having decided to buy.

True. However, they do shop around, looking at the selection available and the price.

As the Penn State Ticket Man supplies 80-85% of the quality seats (doesn't bother with upper level end zones; has the most sideline seats below the concourse level) available on the secondary market, with his tickets appearing on many other brokers' sites, but at a price that obviously exceeds his, combined with the fact that people are accustomed to seeing him at every home game, it is no surprise that his conversion rate (2.5-3%) greatly exceeds the industry norm.

And, what orders other brokers gain from his listings appearing on their sites are almost always filled through him, as few others have equal or better quality seats available at the same or a lower price.

Originally Posted by Doc

If I try to worry about MSN and a half dozen other smaller SE's, I'll be in a rubber room in no time.

I guess that depends on whether or not you are effectively limited to relying on organic listings to get traffic.

Originally Posted by Doc

And there are those that think I'm already overdue for it.

Yeah; but, put enough of the right people in the same rubber room and a good time can be had by all.