Completely missing from MSN results?

[mryang]

Firstly let me stress I have never used any black hat techniques or cheating or dodgy link farms etc...

However my site which is 7 years old has dropped completely out of MSN's results where we used to enjoy several hundred visitors a day from MSN and have quite a few first page positions for our chosen keywords and phrases.

My site is DVD-and-media.com blank dvd recordable disc and case products for duplication and replication - it is a UK based dot com

We also own the domains dvd-and-media.co.uk and dvdandmedia.co.uk

The only site even showing in MSN is dvdandmedia.co.uk and this we only bought this year so it has no age or PR assigned and it is set up on a permanent redirect to our main site dvd-and-media.com - but rather than indexing and listing our pages in MSN there is just the one page in MSN and that is found by doing a search - site:dvdandmedia.co.uk and one result is found. search site:dvd-and-media.com gives zero results where in the past it gave thousands!

We list well on Google with many top 3 positions and a few No.1's .... why have we suddenly been dumped by MSN??? I have tried emailing MSN and filling out their "I didn't find what I am looking for" forms without any reply.

I have also checked my .htaccess files and apache configuration on the server and everything looks correct for the redirects, our main site has not been offline either.

So I am looking for some help from you guys and girls on here... I have been more of a lurker and learner on Webproworld up until now and hope you can help me out of this dilemma and see my site fully indexed in MSN again.

All help will be most greatfully received.

[DanThies]

Simon, the problem might be the duplicate site that you are hosting at www.gold2012.com.
Just a hunch, though.

[smeatz]

hahaha... you got a good laugh out of me with "that" lil (subtly sarcastic) gem of a reply, Dan

I guess we shouldn't go "too hard" on Simon though... lets face it, he IS in the "duplication and replication" niche!



Cheers,

Smeatz

[DanThies]

I doubt this was intentional, Smeatz. It could very easily just be a server configuration problem, and I think if it were intentional they probably wouldn't be asking questions here. Either way, gold2012.com is indexed @ MSN, and the intended domain is not.

[halfmexi]

Half of my clients sites disappeared in MSN for September - some in the top 5 in their respective search queries... I think they are just re-adjusting their (supposed) new search that is supposed to compete with Google.............. yeah right, I know...

MSN can dream I guess...

[Clint1]

Originally Posted by halfmexi

Half of my clients sites disappeared in MSN for September - some in the top 5 in their respective search queries... I think they are just re-adjusting their (supposed) new search that is supposed to compete with Google.............. yeah right, I know...

MSN can dream I guess...

If their goal is to compete with G by REMOVING useful relevant whitehat pages, they've definitely succeeded and done that even "better" than G. They are a total mess, and thanks to this "Live" search crap of theirs, G has widened the gap.

[KenGalo]

Hi folks,

I have been a reader for years here but rarely post since it's out of my element. I run an office cleaning service and my site L & K Office Cleaning and Janitorial Services was ranking fairly high with MSN for a few years up until this past winter when it completely dropped off to page 30.

Last month I signed up for a few of their contests and the StartupNation site and the Home Based Business contest, within 4 weeks I was back on page 1.

Go figure, because I can't.

[Doolallys]

My site, Online Casinos | Poker | Bingo | Gambling has been missing from MSN since the turn of the year. When I ask what's wrong they just say it's a small problem they have that will be fixed soon.

Personally I think the algo. they use has a flaw that they can't fix.

[Clint1]

Originally Posted by KenGalo

Hi folks,

I have been a reader for years here but rarely post since it's out of my element. I run an office cleaning service and my site L & K Office Cleaning and Janitorial Services was ranking fairly high with MSN for a few years up until this past winter when it completely dropped off to page 30.

Last month I signed up for a few of their contests and the StartupNation site and the Home Based Business contest, within 4 weeks I was back on page 1.

Go figure, because I can't.

What kind of contests?

[Clint1]

Originally Posted by Doolallys

My site, Online Casinos | Poker | Bingo | Gambling has been missing from MSN since the turn of the year. When I ask what's wrong they just say it's a small problem they have that will be fixed soon.

Personally I think the algo they use has a flaw that they can't fix.

Yeah, it's like G--they've screwed up something they now don't know how to fix. Both can't leave well enough alone. "Small"?? It's "small" to them as they put it because they are not in the position of site owners that NEED their pages indexed in order to have an income! If they actually admit it, you know it's big.

Another thing, I have roughly 400 pages and now MSN shows (get this) about 1200 pages indexed. WTF??? Did someone upload about 800 pages to my site of which I'm unaware?? So it would seem their site: operator also isn't working......along with their submit URL page which also isn't working.

[Drake]

Maybe MSN is try to do something similar to Google with the paid link penalties now? Seems like a lot of people all over are losing rank unexpectedly.

(I'm referring to the tons of articles talking about the new Google paid link penalties for having site advertising, like this one.)

Not really sure, as I'm not an search expert, but it came to mind when I was reading this.

[Clint1]

Originally Posted by Drake

Maybe MSN is try to do something similar to Google with the paid link penalties now? Seems like a lot of people all over are losing rank unexpectedly.

(I'm referring to the tons of articles talking about the new Google paid link penalties for having site advertising, like this one.)

Not really sure, as I'm not an search expert, but it came to mind when I was reading this.

Could be, and if so, also like G, they too are screwing site owners that don't even have paid links nor advertising! I'm one of them.

[mryang]

Hi guys,

Thanks DanThies I hadnt even considered that Gold2012.com was somehow causing duplicate content. Seems this could be down to an error in my htaccess and forwarding! Gold2012.com is just another unused domain on my server and brings up my main site - Dam!!!!! If I correct it now how long do you think it will take for things to come right again?? Any ideas?

[Clint1]

I seriously doubt that's your problem. Yes, it's a good idea to fix it, but this is happening to too many other people without any dupe content problem. Plus MSN doesn't really care about that like G does.

[leesw]

Where are you supposed to talk to MSN? I've got a site that is not a duplicate, does no black hat and ranked fine until about 8 months ago and it was dropped completely. I've emailed them twice and they have not responded. Maybe I'm using the wrong information to contact them?

Also, what contests did KenGalo sign up for?

[DanThies]

MSN's instructions are here:
Site Owner Help: Request that we reinclude your website in MSN Search results

[DanThies]

Clint, MSN does care about duplicate sites, especially when they're on the same IP address.

Clearly they have a lot of things forked up right now @ MSN, but the reinclusion process does work... just slowly.

[Clint1]

Originally Posted by DanThies

Clint, MSN does care about duplicate sites, especially when they're on the same IP address.

Clearly they have a lot of things forked up right now @ MSN, but the reinclusion process does work... just slowly.

I should have said dupe pages and not dupe sites. They may "care", a little, but not to the effect that G cares about it.

[Clint1]

Originally Posted by leesw

Where are you supposed to talk to MSN? I've got a site that is not a duplicate, does no black hat and ranked fine until about 8 months ago and it was dropped completely. I've emailed them twice and they have not responded. Maybe I'm using the wrong information to contact them?

Also, what contests did KenGalo sign up for?

I don't have the time now, but I posted several MSN email addresses on some other thread. It was within the past 2-3 months. I think it was on another MSN thread here, but I can't be positive about that. You can search my posts and probably find it.

[noel_x99]

We've seen the same kind of problems on MSN over the last month or more. We've designed many sites that generally performed well in MSN with no particular effort. If we did decent on-page optimization, these sites worked well in MSN. All of these sites have disappeared.

I was checking on one site today. This site does well in Y and G. It's in the top ten for many of the major keyword phrases we've targeted.

Not in MSN...If I searched MSN for the company name, the company site did show up at the top of the SERPS - So I would think that means they have at least indexed some part of the site. HOWEVER, if I search for an extremely unique 8 word phrase, the site doesn't show up in the top 50. If I put those same 8 words in quotes, my page (or references to my page) are the only things that show in the serps.

Obviously, other than searches for the company name, we've had no traffic from MSN on this site.

I'd check on that possible duplication problem. Other than that, sit tight and wait for MSN to do something right.

[KenGalo]

StartupNation Home-Based 100

StartupNation Home-Based 100

StartupNation Home-Based 100

StartupNation Home-Based 100 Vote for me if it's still open! L & K Cleaning at the bottom of page 5 is my site. Thanks!!!



I also signed up for their newsletter, don't know if that helped either, but I'm back.

[mryang]

Thanks for the advice everyone.

I have identified the duplicate sites being indexed by MSN. They appear to have been

DVDandMedia.co.uk
Gold2012.com
dvd-and-media.co.uk

The htaccess files now reflect that all are permanently redirected to DVD-and-Media.com my main site.

I suppose I am just waiting for MSN to crawl the sites and find the main site now? Or do you think I have been banned and can't get back in whatever?

Would it be worth using one of these EXPRESS SUBMIT services to get the re-indexing of the site or do I have to email MSN and cross my fingers?

[Clint1]

Originally Posted by KenGalo

StartupNation Home-Based 100

StartupNation Home-Based 100

StartupNation Home-Based 100

StartupNation Home-Based 100 Vote for me if it's still open! L & K Cleaning at the bottom of page 5 is my site. Thanks!!!

I also signed up for their newsletter, don't know if that helped either, but I'm back.

If those are the contests you're talking about which we asked, what do they have to do with MSN? That only looks like a spam trap....as in your address gets spammed.

[KenGalo]

The contest gives away microsoft products and came through from my Live site account so I figure they are connected to MSN. I'm grasping at straws here as to why I was completely gone 8 months ago on local searches and back on page 1 without having done anything other than join this stuff. If you look further into those links they will take you to a forum site called StartupNation.com for entrepenuers and seems to also be connected to Microsoft.

[Clint1]

I think that was just a coincidence.

What is this "Live site account", any benefits to having one? Is it like the G Webmaster Tools account?

[mryang]

Is it worth using the express submit services? If so which is the most cost effective but actually works??

I still cant work out why I havent been indexed on MSN yet ...

[KenGalo]

I got an email from Microsoft Live about a year ago offering me a free website and hosting so I took them up on it.

Office Cleaning Designed for your business

[Clint1]

Originally Posted by KenGalo

I got an email from Microsoft Live about a year ago offering me a free website and hosting so I took them up on it.

Office Cleaning Designed for your business

Is that in response to: What is this "Live site account", any benefits to having one? Is it like the G Webmaster Tools account?

And if so, you can only have a "Live site account" if they host your site?

[KenGalo]

Yes that is in response to the Live question and it appears that the agreement for having the free site is that they host it and periodically send you emails about 'added' features beyond the basic that you can add on for a fee.

I had been toying with a different site idea for years with a couple of business peers in other regions and since it was free, we thought, what the heck, so we have it and hasn't cost us a dime yet.

Should it turn into a requirement for some form of payment we will re-evaluate it's benefit and go from there.

[Clint1]

I'm confused here Ken. Are you saying MSN hosts lk-clean.com for free? Or is it some other site? (BTW, I voted for your site on page 5).

I'm still wondering if you can only have one of these Live Site accounts if they host your site.

[KenGalo]

No, lk-clean.com is elsewhere. I opened this site: Office Cleaning Designed for your business using the free opportunity from MSN Live. It's a separate site highlighting me and several of my peers from other states. I did not even enter this site into any contest but I did link this site, designed, to my older site lk-clean when I created it. Don't know if that helped or not either.

thanks for the vote!

[mryang]

The question I asked above before the thread was hijacked by Ken posting his cleaning links was -

Is it worth using the express submit services? If so which is the most cost effective but actually works??

I still cant work out why I havent been indexed on MSN yet ...
please help as I want to solve this problem and get back into MSN as quickly as possible.

[Clint1]

Originally Posted by mryang

The question I asked above before the thread was hijacked by Ken posting his cleaning links was -

Is it worth using the express submit services? If so which is the most cost effective but actually works??

I still cant work out why I havent been indexed on MSN yet ...
please help as I want to solve this problem and get back into MSN as quickly as possible.

I was thinking this was his thread! I apologize. Were you able to find the MSN email addresses I mentioned earlier in this thread? I would try and contact them first at those addresses, they do reply to email but it may take a few tries. If that gets you no where, then that only leaves the Express Submit since all of MSN's Submit URL areas are still busted now, they refuse to fix them.

[fctoma]

What analytic tool are you using??? I do know msn has been swapping, sharing, maneuvering, around with live.

I look on my MSN referrals for the last few months and they are DOOOOOWWWWN. But, if you also look at your LIVE stats, you'll probably notice a big increase as of lately...the last few months. MSN has been switching over their sites to the LIVE tracking so you'll see both MSN and LIVE referrals in your stats, just keep that in mind.

Didn't see anyone hit up on this so I thought I'd throw it out...

[mryang]

Frank I am using SEO Elite for checking my KW placement.

[mryang]

Is there an Express Inclusion that works for MSN?

[Clint1]

Originally Posted by mryang

Is there an Express Inclusion that works for MSN?

If you mean an area where you submit a URL, no, they are all still not working.

[mryang]

Is there any way to find out if my site is on some sort of blacklist?

[Clint1]

Originally Posted by mryang

Is there any way to find out if my site is on some sort of blacklist?

First ask yourself "Did I do anything wrong or blackhat". If so, then you know why and you probably are on the "list". If not, then you just probably got screwed like so many other whitehat site owners, a victim of screwed up algo's. As least with MSN you can ask them and they may tell you.

[mryang]

You can post into the LiveSearch blog at -

Live Search : October 2007 - Posts

If they don't pick links up in there then who knows where they will!

Is there any way to find out if my site has been banned for some reason from MSN?

[Clint1]

Originally Posted by mryang

You can post into the LiveSearch blog at -

Live Search : October 2007 - Posts

I don't see where to submit a URL there.

Is there any way to find out if my site has been banned for some reason from MSN?

Like I just said, you can ask them. "As least with MSN you can ask them and they may tell you."

I find it hard to believe you're in G but got canned in MSN. This would lead me to believe it's another one of many MSN screw-ups. They're a total mess. I can't believe they have the audacity to post this BS: http://blogs.msdn.com/livesearch/arc...eb-search.aspx . Check out the post on the page after yours.

[Clint1]

If you or anyone is interested, I just found a recent working MSN email address, so you can contact them about your problem.
SERCH.WNLV.WW.00.EN.SYK.MNL.TS.T01.SPT.00.EM[at]css.one.microsoft.com

I just gave them "an earful" I hope about their recent problems (and their constantly non-working Submit URL areas). Hopefully it will have some positive results.

[mryang]

Tried that email address but it bounced... suppose they shut it off once they got your abuse Clint

[Clint1]

Originally Posted by mryang

Tried that email address but it bounced... suppose they shut it off once they got your abuse Clint

I was very diplomatic about it and not rude. I suspected they were maybe some kind "dynamically generated" email addresses, but I think they could be tied to only one email address because the address is still working for me. Email them from one of their webforms, then you'll get an email address for them you can use for communication.

[mryang]

Here is the proof for me....

Thanks to Webnauts I used his SEO tool as he had pointed out that I had too many links on my pages - this was as a result of introducing an html menu on the side of my site resulting in a total of 120+ links on the page.

So, my site has been out of MSN since August... yesterday evening I uploaded a new index page with only 75 links on it.... low and behold this morning my site is back in live search. QED!

Thanks everyone.

[Clint1]

MSN "pulled a google stunt". The jerks deleted my homepage from their index from November thru Christmas. Around Jan. 1, it's back at all the normal search results. Same crap G does right before Xmas to give all the Xmas sales to the big monopoly companies.

[Clint1]

What is wrong with this website?? This apparently new format is horrible with this massively huge left margin. And on this page, there is no "Quick reply" area at the bottom, and looking at that last post on the bottom of mine, there's no "Quote" button for it. (Of course that post will now be above this one). There's also no "Reply" buttons anywhere but at the extreme top!

I came here because I received an email notification that someone had posted a new reply. It's not even here. Looks like some gremlins in the system.

Anyway, I noticed that last post of mine is no longer accurate so I thought I would correct it. MSN's submit URL area has been working. Live Search URL Submission

[Clint1]

WOW, this is really bizarre! I feel like I'm in the twilight zone. That post of mine above that I just posted, does not show up in IE(6)! In fact, THIS ENTIRE THREAD IS DIFFERENT IN FIREFOX! The post I mentioned above that was no longer accurate, DOES NOT SHOW in FF but it SHOWS in IE!! But that missing post I mentioned above ("i have same problem. can u help me? msn sucks"), SHOWS UP in FF but does NOT show in IE!

Also none of the text formatting is working in FF! That's why I had to use CAPS above for emphasis because I couldn't bold it!

So we have totally different content for this thread showing up in IE and FF. The missing buttons and "Quick Reply" areas, ARE showing up on FF, but again, it's missing posts. What's going on here?

[Clint1]

In IE, this is the last post that shows up, and it's from 10-23-2007! I'm putting it here so those using FF will know the inaccurate post I was referring to:

Quote:
Originally Posted by mryang
Is there an Express Inclusion that works for MSN?

If you mean an area where you submit a URL, no, they are all still not working.

Wow, it's getting more strange by the second. In IE, that area just below "Quote" by "mryang", IS BLANK! Nothing is there, even after highlighting the area! But when I pasted it here, the text mysteriously shows up!

[donotaskwhoiam]

i just used Bing for twice to see how it look.

like one currency for one country, one google is enough for one world.