self interest

[Tubby]

I think it was Paul Keating (ex Australian Prime Minister) that said words to the effect -
"If ever you are unsure what horse to back in a three horse race, chose the one that is carrying the most self interest, at least you know that one is trying"

I ask the question 'Where do we place self interests on our web pages, and how much of it should we place?' My personal view is our own self interest should take up no more than 30% of the page content, rather than study this topic to arrive at this figure I simply took a wild guess.

More important is self interest for the user. . . To calculate how much user 'self interest' you have room for, first discount everything that can be described as fitting under the banner of your own self interest.

Discard your adsense adverts, discard your carefully scuptured keyword text, discard the items you sell for profit. . Basically you can discard all your images that promote.
Now take a look at what space you have left to include some self interest for your user.

If it is less than 5% discard your web page and start again.

What's in it for me? just once a webmaster should click on a link to his own website and as the page unfolds the webmaster should shuffle around in his seat a little. . Then view the page pretending he is a visitor. . . While viewing the page as a visitor he should ask himself "what is in this for me".

quick example:
If a user has to log on, Does your site offer enough fulfillment of user self interest to trigger that action?

How can webmasters increase user self interest to boost the bottom line? How can webmaster make our users try as hard as we do? There seems to be a list of everything else a webmaster needs plastered on every forum.

Where is the list of users self interest items. I NEED ONE having this list should make me better at marketing. . .

.

[crankydave]

Most interesting post Tubby.

It was back in a psychology class my proffesor proffered that any individual, when faced with more than 1 option, will always select the one they feel to in their best interest at that point in time. Self interest will always be first.

My self interests in my pages are (hopefully) the self interests of my visitors. That's why they are there to begin with. Their self interest. The images, the text, the products/services, etc. I have a self interest in all of them being there. Otherwise, they wouldn't be there.

I disagree with discounting everything that is of my self interest... that would be the entire page. I don't believe that the 2 (my self interest-visitors self intrest) are mutually exclusive.

For me, it's a matter of delivering my self interests in a way that meet or pique the self interest of others. Especially getting the message to those who may not be particularly interested to begin with. Creating self interest. This is the trick IMO.

It's always easier to create more interest in the already interested.

Dave

[Tubby]

I was looking at Google today from the perspective of user self interest. The whole google site is saturated with fodder for self interest. from webmaster tools, right down to the basic need to be in the results. Google demonstrates a complete understanding of their users self interest.

Creating fodder for the self interest of our users in many web sites suddenly seemed to me to be more of a by product, than an intentionally planned approach . . I think the topic is under studied.

It is not hard to find a thousand articles on 'keyword density' a hundred blogs discussing 'hot spots' for our eyes to follow. But I have never seen a top ten 'satisfy your users 'whats in it for me' needs.

If my site sells golf balls, I should attract buyers of golf balls; We have a mutual interest. Will I sell more if I can discover more obscure self interests - is there a formula I can discover? a quick browse of some successful sites seeking evidence of created user self interest fodder suggest that an upgrade of the 'whats in it for me' factor is probably worth "a good coat of looking at"

Differing types of sites would clearly require a different approach, some sites sell items, some deliver information, sites vary in size and purpose . . but the 'whats in it for me ' seems to be a constant.

Top 10 'whats in it for me' user self interest calculator. .
1 ?
2 ?
3 ?
4 ?
5 ?
6 ?
7 ?
8 ?
9 ?
10 recognition ?

Is their a reverse effect if a site visitor senses an over the top 'self interest' emanating from our web pages?

[crankydave]

Originally Posted by Tubby

Is their a reverse effect if a site visitor senses an over the top 'self interest' emanating from our web pages?

IMO... most definitely. I'm reminded of a local television commercial where a business owner parades out his 2 kids at the end and has them announce... "Buy <insert product> so we can go to college".

This is old but you might enjoy reading it Tubby...

Understanding Why People Buy

Dave

[Tubby]

from the article linked above
" she likes that they use part of their profits to promote peace and tackle other global problems "

yes, good example . . .

'shared gaols' = self interest

[Doc]

Great topic, Tubby!

Ideally, if we can present OUR self-interests, in such a way that the customer sees them as THEIR self-interest, we may have hit the perfect balance.

I suspect it's rare to accomplish that, however. In the other cases, I think it's critical that when the customer subconsciously weighs his perception of our interests over his own, he is left with the feeling that his interests will be better served than ours.

How else could a wandering tinkerer succeed in selling a vial of "a rare Egyptian formula of secret medicinal herbs, previously reserved only for the Pharoahs", to rejuvenate, prolong life, and enhance health, when said vial was 90% cheap rum, and 10% rancid castor oil?

Snake oil, by any other name....?

[Dcrux]

One way people serve a customer's self interest is through techniques like a persona. It's more of a human calculator of the mix of varying self-interest factors a person uses to make a decision for a specific situation.

It's a difficult question when you take the factors out of context for an undefined situation.

The question 'what's in it for me?' is constant. The answer depends on context.

There's a whole field called desirability design which is concerned with questions such as this.

[crankydave]

One thing I believe it's safe to say, is that my self interests are not exclusively mine and mine alone from the perspective of noone else interested in the same things. Needs, wants, desires, etc.

From a marketing perspective, the ability to meet and engage those self interests, and create them, is what matters. In part, perhaps a lot, this is what all the interactive approaches and applications are focused on doing. Engaging/creating interest.

Me for example, I don't need a whole lot of prodding when it come to fishing, gardening, or cooking. I already have a self interest. But what is going to sway me more in one direction or another? This is the question a marketer need ask. Some will call it "the hook".

Going back to your top 10 list tubby. I don't think I can even come close to a "universal" list. The big reason... "self". It would mean coming up with a universal list that drives all people. Outside of the basics... needs and desires, I'm not so sure anyone could. Hell, even "needs" vary from person to person.

But if I were to boil it down, I tend to believe it's all about biggest self interest that's the same in everyone, whether or not they admit it... emotion.

Dave

[Doc]

In terms of the types of marketing efforts that sell, for example, "self-help" or "Be a Millionaire" books, plans, etc., I think one of the biggest things to overcome is the fear of failure on the part of the customer. That latent fear may be present because they aren't sure if the book will offer them enough knowledge, or because they fear they won't adequately understand it, won't stick with it, or simply because they're afraid it might be all smoke and mirrors.

But at the end of the day, if they fail, they fear the failure will be theirs, because they didn't succeed in doing what someone else had presumably succeeded in doing, or didn't see through the smoke. And as human beings, we don't like to fail. To do so, implies a shortcoming of some sort that is very uncomfortable to us. When we compare unfavorably to others, it undermines our self-esteem, and is hurtful.

So dissipating that fear, making success seem almost certain (to the subconscious side), is, IMO, paramount when marketing that sort of product. And I think the same is true, regardless of what is being sold, whether it's a product, an idea or information, to varying degrees.

[Tubby]

crankydave mentions
'an emotional trigger'

Yes that has to be on the list - self interest -

Doc mentioned
'Fear' fear is an emotion. cerainly a killer of self interest.

I think we are on the way to arriving at some basic rules ( a check list at least)
If fear kills self interest - security or safety probably creates it.

[seopo]

This sitepoint article on personas may help you create your wishlist Build Your Own Data-backed Personas [Usability and Information Architecture]

ps. can we abbreviate self interest? make it very hard to read when it's said so much in a paragraph

[Tubby]

Seopo, I think I might be the wrong generation for using data backed persona's. Unfortunately I am also the wrong generation for abbreviated words - It has taken me years to get comfortable with 'lol' and 'roflmho'. Mostly when I come across a bunch of letters I read on hoping something will trigger some sort of recognition factor - it rarely does.

Comfort zone - (looking at your third link) and a short story

I left London Heath-row airport in 1968. . About fifteen years later I decided to ring my sister, I picked up the phone book and searched for England, (this was the name of the Country of my birth) It was not in the phone book. I searched for 'Britain' - Nothing - I even Did a search for 'Great' just in case somebody listed my home country as Great Britain.
I threw the damn phone book across the room. the damn phone book had Africa all the south American Countries - but no England ? ?
I never rang my sister . . A couple of years later I told this story to someone at a barbecue and they asked me "did you try U.K. ?" . . I was born in Acton London, I went to several schools and I spent some time at Bristol University, before leaving those Merry shores. Until this particular day It had never registered in my brain, I never heard it referred to, and I had never considered myself to be from the U.K. Pre 1968 I was English. British. a Limey, a Pom. .

What is in it for me?
Your message reminds me that If I read text that has been mucked about with, If some MF
has ruined my CZ by imposing there own SE then IAOOT. . .

I am going to add
'Familiarity' to my list of self interest.
This is a comfort zone thing, language usage for my generation is like a comfortable chair. using abbreviations are something akin to making us stand at the back where we cannot grasp every word. . My Generation expects you to use enough room for us to stretch out upon whole words.

I thank you. . I never realised it worked both ways. I certainly needed to see it written

you wrote
"ps. can we abbreviate self interest? make it very hard to read when it's said so much in a paragraph "

That is an unexpected bonus . . to realise that an abbreviation can be 'preferred' This is one of the things I expect I should already have know, but didn't.

[crankydave]

I don't discount "fear". Fear of getting robbed, fear of government policies, etc.

Fear can be a powerful self interest and motivator. Greed is another.

Dave

[Tubby]

greed. . Is the ' Biggy '

[computergenius]

"fear of the other guy doing better than me" seems to be a good one...

[Tubby]

Yes.
"fear of the other guy doing better than me"
I am going to use that one. As I update my pages I intend to play on the theme that my regular on site car parts sellers could well be selling more . . . During the next 12 months I intend to change a few words here and there to Up the percentage of 'what's in it for my users' content. Right through my sites. .

[garris]

Originally Posted by Doc

So dissipating that fear, making success seem almost certain (to the subconscious side), is, IMO, paramount when marketing that sort of product.

There's a slightly missing element here because, although true, if taken to it's natural inclinations, we can become used car salesmen in the customer's eyes. Techniques are successful only when used as an extension of your true motives. People can generally sense what your true motive really are, almost as if it seeps out of the cracks in between the words you use and how you use them They can tell.

At the risk of becoming maudlin here, the secret is that you really do have to care about your customer's benefit. Taking our focus off ourselves and pointing it toward others is a principle as old as Calvary. The difficult part is letting go of our self-interests for a moment, and hoping that it will really work.

There's something in the change of attitude that leaves a scent that your customers can pick up. Sometimes it takes a little while to gain traction, but it ultimately does make a difference.

[Doc]

Originally Posted by garris

There's a slightly missing element here because, although true, if taken to it's natural inclinations, we can become used car salesmen in the customer's eyes. Techniques are successful only when used as an extension of your true motives. People can generally sense what your true motive really are, almost as if it seeps out of the cracks in between the words you use and how you use them They can tell.

In general, I agree. Most people can sense the general "flavor" of a sales pitch, and if it sets off internal alarms, their resistance will understandably skyrocket...I know mine does. [

At the risk of becoming maudlin here, the secret is that you really do have to care about your customer's benefit. Taking our focus off ourselves and pointing it toward others is a principle as old as Calvary. The difficult part is letting go of our self-interests for a moment, and hoping that it will really work.

There's something in the change of attitude that leaves a scent that your customers can pick up. Sometimes it takes a little while to gain traction, but it ultimately does make a difference.

I very much agree with this last. Building that "trust" is not easy, but it can be invaluable. I've worked in various fields, and have seen it work time after time. Once the customer believes you really have their best interests at heart, you're a solid member of their team. The tough part is to make that point credible to them. There's a natural resistance to it, but it can be overcome.

[computergenius]

Originally Posted by Doc

Once the customer believes you really have their best interests at heart, you're a solid member of their team. The tough part is to make that point credible to them. There's a natural resistance to it, but it can be overcome.

True, getting the balance right between grooming and "frightening" is a delicate balance that is so difficult to get right.

[Tubby]

garris said
'There's something in the change of attitude that leaves a scent that your customers can pick up'

Yes, a combination of little things, that all point the same direction. getting that scent on to your web pages is target worth aiming for. There must be a hundred tiny clues that a visitor to your site can pick up on a subliminal level that tells them, this site is a rip off. picking the balance, and not smelling like a rat. Not quite as simple as splashing on some after shave to make us smell sweet.

We can all recognise the blatant and obvious. . Everything it is not all cured by simply placing an 'after hours phone number' and telling yourself "There, now the buggers can ring me. that will let them know I really do care" then never answering the phone. The whole trust topic can be so subtle. A bit like a local politician losing votes for wearing a red tie at a funeral.

I do think there are rules that can be discovered or patterns we can uncover, just reading the post above has given me several things I want to try and implement.

[Uncle Dog]

You need only look round here (WPW) for good examples of posters exhibiting varying degrees of self interest behaviour. It's adaptive cooperative behaviour. Who smells like a rat?

In an ideal world you are cooperating with visitors to your web-sites. Carrots better than sticks when it comes to cooperation - 09 September 2009 - New Scientist might hint at new approaches to improving that relationship.

[Tubby]

uncle dog the article concludes
"It becomes in one's self-interest to help the group,"

Many web sites will not be able to translate 'group interests' into something usable.

Luckily my websites look as if they lend themselves to group interests. My mind has been ticking over some sort of reward or recognition for site users. It is always a problem trying to convert things we know into something practical and usable.

How do we reward 'group interests' in a practical way - clearly we cannot credit 1 cent into every visitors pay pal account, this would not be something subtle. There does seem to be a lot known that is ignored. I wonder if this is because we imitate each other. IE; This shopping cart does the same as that shopping cart. . Maybe if one shopping cart rewards visitors for the number of visits, and credits fly by points for feedback or sales or leads - every shopping cart will follow.

Can you earn Flyby points on shopping carts? Can your local football club earn fly by points when they all buy from the same software company?

[Uncle Dog]

Originally Posted by Tubby

There does seem to be a lot known that is ignored.

Couldn't agree more. I think many of us are guilty of thinking "I'm doing it with a computer therefore it hasn't been done before". WRONG. Everything has a precursor, even instant messaging (a few versions back it was called a telegram). MeTube? = TitBits magazine. Google = Encyclopedia Brittanica. Wheel = Log.

A great deal of time and effort, over the entirety of our histories, has been expended in the pursuit of... whatever it is you're looking for. Mainly to do with sex, wealth, power and watches. The lessons are already out there. As techsocutors your job is to electronify them on your magnexoscopes for populinculc.

[Doc]

Originally Posted by Uncle Dog

Couldn't agree more. I think many of us are guilty of thinking "I'm doing it with a computer therefore it hasn't been done before". WRONG. Everything has a precursor, even instant messaging (a few versions back it was called a telegram). MeTube? = TitBits magazine. Google = Encyclopedia Brittanica. Wheel = Log.

A great deal of time and effort, over the entirety of our histories, has been expended in the pursuit of... whatever it is you're looking for. Mainly to do with sex, wealth, power and watches. The lessons are already out there. As techsocutors your job is to electronify them on your magnexoscopes for populinculc.

Watches?

Sex, wealth and power, I'm down with, but WATCHES???

[Uncle Dog]

I get tons of emails from people trying to sell me watches, it's obviously REALLY important. (I just haven't worked out why)

[Tubby]

Uncle Dog said.
"As techsocutors your job is to electronify them on your magnexoscopes for populinculc. "


seopo asked at one stage if we could "abbreviate" . . I am sure that having read the above sentence, that the English language never really needs abbreviations . . The expandability of words is a normal and rather beautiful natural occurrence.

[Dcrux]

What's In It For Me Checklist

[ ] Maximum money in minimum time (it's not enough to increase wealth, it has to appeal to the lazy)

[ ] Does it cure rather than prevent (people pay exponentially more to cure a problem they have and live with rather than imagine a problem they might then want to prevent) but it doesn't have to be a physical ailment, it can be the cure for an unpleasant emotion like guilt.

[ ] Helps me think less (The book Don't Make Me Think acknowledges users and buyers as cognitive misers, continually looking for short cuts, three simple steps, etc)

[ ] Makes me look smart Seemingly contradictory, [blank] For Idiots books on a desk isn't conducive to pay raises or continuing employment. What we're talking about here has to do with improving image. Most of the atrocities committed with Flash and PhotoShop are due to the hyperventilatingly image conscious. People who believe their own PR are especially interested in image. Substance ...not so much.

[ ] Does it secure or improve status, especially through belonging to a group. Nine tenths of Web 2.0 is the bandwagon effect of belonging to the "in crowd." The discussion surround what exactly Web 2.0 is demonstrates how you can get away with the Emperor's New Clothes con. You can hint that asking what "it" is would indicate you're on the outside trying to get in. Don't underestimate inner circle status: where the grass is always greener, life's hurdles are lower, and everybody knows your name.

[ ] Ensures I'll keep what I've got this is the Nobody Got Fired for Buying IBM effect. People don't buy because they feel dealing with you will threaten their job -- even when your offering is superior in features on paper. Dead links to a start-up that no longer exists is not really payment to a designer trying to "improve their portfolio." Understand people value the bird in the hand over two in the bush. Something Blu-Ray still hasn't figured out is Louderback’s Law: Unless a new technology includes breakthroughs in at least two different dimensions — without adding hardship along the way — it will not supplant and older, established one. People evaluate offers with a risk/reward calculator. Most developer or service provider "solutions" are great big problems on the customer side because people don't understand risk/reward ratios. Reduce risk a little or increase reward a lot, better still do both.

[ ] Does it confirm a world view. It doesn't have to be your world view to confirm "a" world view. People love to be right -- no matter how disastrously wrong they are. People hate the inconvenient fact -- one reason user testing is much touted and little performed. More than self image, think of World View = (Self Image + Group Status) x Thinking Less. Despite what they might say, people operate as if their model of reality is reality. Consequently offers which violate the target market's world view seem unreal or, more to the point of selling stuff -- in-credible. Better to make one claim which is completely believed than dozens of incredible claims ... a point seemingly lost on web copywriters. Also, showing you understand their world view relays to customers you understand them.

[Tubby]

I love that post. .

I love that post. . I had to say that twice, because I loved that post..

[Doc]

That really is an outstanding post, Dcrux! Cuts right to the heart of the issues of overcoming sales resistance.

[Dcrux]

Cuts right to the heart of the issues of overcoming sales resistance.

Unfortunately I had the brilliant idea of using the word "crux" in my forum handle. Now everybody expects me to hit the nail squarely on the head in my posts.

While this list is okay for the sales part, there is a missing element which relates to marketing (it isn't really a part of the checklist above).

Let's say you are a developer making a, let's call it a schedule planner. One thing you could reasonably conclude about users is they want to schedule a meeting.

This is not wrong, but not user focussed. It's not developing product from the "what's in it for me" perspective.

When you actually watch what users do with these schedulers, what you see is telling. It's so easy to schedule a meeting the user's schedule is crammed full of -- you guessed it -- meetings. So much so, users (I'm talking about real, observed user behavior) schedule meetings with themselves just to get work done.

I would suggest users do not want to schedule meetings. What's in if for me? Avoiding nonproductive meetings and managing the time within the meeting to be more effective. I want meeting elimination as well as scheduling. I want to design a better meeting -- not have one I have zero control over.

There are simple, programmable features for this. Very, very few understand or make use of them. A marketing opportunity going to waste.

The point is, you can design things with a what's in it for me slant and, thus, multiply the effectiveness of the what's in it for me copy.

[Doc]

Originally Posted by Dcrux

Unfortunately I had the brilliant idea of using the word "crux" in my forum handle. Now everybody expects me to hit the nail squarely on the head in my posts.

While this list is okay for the sales part, there is a missing element which relates to marketing (it isn't really a part of the checklist above).

Let's say you are a developer making a, let's call it a schedule planner. One thing you could reasonably conclude about users is they want to schedule a meeting.

This is not wrong, but not user focussed. It's not developing product from the "what's in it for me" perspective.

When you actually watch what users do with these schedulers is telling. It's so easy to schedule a meeting the user's schedule is crammed full of -- you guessed it -- meetings. So much so, users (I'm talking about real, observed user behavior) schedule meetings with themselves just to get work done.

I would suggest users do not want to schedule meetings. What's in if for me? Avoiding nonproductive meetings and managing the time within the meeting to be more effective. I want meeting elimination as well as scheduling. I want to design a better meeting -- not have one I have zero control over.

There are simple, programmable features for this. Very, very few understand or make use of them. A marketing opportunity going to waste.

The point is, you can design things with a what's in it for me slant and, thus, multiply the effectiveness of the what's in it for me copy.

Good point...kind of identifying (or creating) a niche, and developing a product around it. Marketing 101, but often overlooked.

FWIW, I have a similar problem, Dcrux....I've been using "Doc" as my nick for decades, and people are constantly asking me what to do about the pain in their shoulder!