The decline and fall of a great website

[simonm]

I've been dabbling ever more seriously in web since 1997, online information since 1994 - Minitel. What I do now in terms of web promotion is utterly different to what I did 3 years ago, this is an industry where you have to both evolve to stay competitive and have a crystal ball to gauge what is coming next. I expect I devote almost 50% of my time on my own sites just to see what works so I can translate to client sites.

Yet again I'm dealing with a marketing company that is about to destroy 10 years worth of web development for one of my clients. The company I have worked with has new management and a favoured marketing consultant, as a developer of brochures and perhaps even marketing - though they don't seem to know the difference between marketing and promotion - they might know their business, in terms of web they appear to be stuck in the last century.

They are about to implement what they call 'Professional web design' this is the third time this has happened with my websites and will be the same disaster for my perhaps soon to be ex-client.

So, what will happen. From a many paged, interlinked website with pages focused on descriptive content and search terms, this will be a smart, minimalistic site with few pages and the content will invariably be a series of bullet points.

SEO? Well I agree with Janeth's comment on SEO, "SEO is dead". I do SEO but only in the sense of raising the profile of a page such that the search engines are clearly aware that page is about that subject, a bit more so than somebody else's competing page. My ethos is content and context, that's about it, its just there are about a hundred ways of establishing and reinforcing content and context, call it SEO2.0.

So, this website, which is for a major corporate body in the UK, call it 'E' and which I know generates approx 65% of all new business contacts, that business coming from people searching for generic subjects, will no longer cater for the search market. I am confident that the marketing company will be re-assuring the marketing director that I know little, after all they have shiny offices, I do my work from a home office. Interesting that the recently recruited Sales Manager, who actively wants to retain the good web search position and my methods came from a competing company, a company he says was always jealous of 'E' and their natural web position!

I do wonder what will happen when the new contacts start drying up. My position that I am about to state to them is that I cannot have anything to do with the website to avoid the slightest accusation of sabotage. Its the marketing company that will be destroying the online presence.

As to the other examples, an energy related company serving corporate clients, eg The Duke of Westminster became a client through a web search, as did many other fortune 500 bodies, they went from 6,000 visits per month to less than 1,000 over a period of 2 months. Another, a renewable energy company which was a start-up and just managing to get 1st page for their key terms, the friend of a friend web designer decided they knew all about SEO, yes the classic site with a series of minimalistic bullet points. Now they are nowhere on the natural listings and have a growing adwords budget.

Silver lining on clouds though, I have just secured a new client who is about to ditch their marketing / web design company and go back to basics. My 10 page report on what should be done has been accepted 100% and they have allocated a staff member to just generate content, pr, blogs etc under my guidance!

And the same with another client who has told the so called experts to get on their bike.

[Dcrux]

There are sites that don't rank well, use adwords, and convert like crazy because they didn't design for Google -- they designed for humans.

It's hard to tell what's going on in these cases, but web marketing firms can be notorious for knowing everything about gimmicks and little to nothing about marketing.

Let us make one thing clear. From a marketing standpoint, 6,000 visits is irrelevant. It's conversions that count. Two sites can have wildly different traffic volume, and the site with lower volume does better business because 1) It get highly targeted traffic 2) The site qualifies leads who are the best candidates to become customers. 3) Focuses on converting that traffic.

It is a huge SEO myth that more traffic is necessarily better. Or if you convert at 5% at at 500 visits you will continue to convert 5% at 3,000. You might even convert so poorly the added expense outweighs the few added sales.

Yes, more traffic might even result in less net cash in your pocket when everything is taken into account.

Marketers -- the real ones -- learned long ago quality traffic is one of the most valuable assents. Tons of sites have gotten dugg, seen traffic soar, and got nothing to show for it but increased bandwidth costs. Traffic costs money -- conversions make money. Basic marketing.

You are right to distance yourself and let results argue for you. A sales drop will nag the customer far more effectively than anything.

[techmaniac]

Tell them to save a backup of your website, as they'll want to restore some semblance of the previous site once they realize their error.

[simonm]

Originally Posted by Dcrux

There are sites that don't rank well, use adwords, and convert like crazy because they didn't design for Google -- they designed for humans.

My personal view is that if you design for humans, really look at what the person is on the site for, then it will almost certainly be suitable for google.

[morestar]

you never know though, the new 'professional' design just might turn out better in the end...could this new design possibly build more trust? We'll just have to wait and see...

what's the URL of the current design?

[ronchalice]

As a former solution architect for one of the largest IT companies in the world, I have to agree with Dcrux and simonm. Traffic volume=infrastructure (take a look a the scrambling going on at Facebook). Lightweight pages (and bullet points) designed to drive the psychology behind conversion will always carry the day over SEO. Raw conversion $$$ (or Pounds) will outweigh conversion percentages any day.

If the company is large (and obviously well known), and the corporate branding strategy has been implemented appropriately, SEO (and perhaps search engines generally) become moot. If I want to get information on a GM car, I don't even think about a search engine. I type gm.com or generalmotors.com, or pontiac.com, or chevrolet.com...ad infinitum... into my browser's address bar.

[ron angel]

Originally Posted by techmaniac

Tell them to save a backup of your website, as they'll want to restore some semblance of the previous site once they realize their error.

No YOU keep a full copy of their website Then you can bill them for your time bringing it up to date and reinstalling it.
Explain to them that If they want to use your services that you must have full control over the site & way the contents are presented as it is your reputation on the line if they are not making money.It is easy to get 6000 hits a day on a site just have adult material (grin) but unless that is your business selling it you will not get the right type of conversions but it will be a high rated site in google. I know because I have tried it but not for money for love of a sort....(sorry put your tongues or whatever back in this is not the place for the url)

[optimalwebsite]

You're gonna have to come to terms with the fact that a lot of clients are just plain stupid... it isn't your fault... there's alot of marketing companies out there with slick sales people that take businesses for a ride... i lose about 2 clients a year (I gain more than that as refugees from other webmasters)... I'd recommend moving on and forgetting the old client. Dont take it personally whatever you do.

Warm Regards,


Joel

[dlsweb]

If you are concerned they may claim sabotage, make sure they change your password so you are not able to have access.

[Dinghus]

Hmmmm. It is true that sales are what you want, but with no traffic you get no sales. Conversion rate can become meaningless too. Once again, would you rather have 100% conversion if your traffic is 1 person a month or 1% conversion if your traffic is 1,000 people a month? Yes, you have to look at bandwidth and other costs. But when you can do some very basic SEO and triple your traffic (or more) why wouldn't you do it?
My highest conversion rate still comes from natural searches. Adwords is horrible.
Of course you must have solid advertising and sales pages. You have to know The Psychology of Advertising as was mentioned above.
SEO has morphed, as it should. You need to do SEO for very specific terms that will bring in paying customers. Like instead of optimizing for "car parts" you will want to optimize for "Pontiac GrandPrix transmission oil". Of course this is right where we started years ago.
How you do it has changed too with all the social networking and changes in algorithms. Many "SEO" companies now are actually just social network companies. They get you up on Twitter, Facebook blah blah blah. Does it work? Sure it does. Just like TV ads work.
Anyway, I feel your pain for businesses dropping you and the site going downhill. You are right to get far far away from it. Matter of fact be sure to tell them, in writting, to change the FTP password so you have NO way of changing anything on the site. For when things go south, the new company WILL try to blame you. They are probably already bad mouthing you.

Good luck!

[jimkelly7777]

Run a report on the SERPS that are presently bringing in the customers and hold on to it. I'm sure you have the site backed up so hang on to it so you can re-publish it when the SERPS fall.

Then run a report each week on the same SERPS and keep precise records for as long as you need.

When they come back to you, you'll be ready.

If you don't have a programme to run these SERPS, contact me and I'll tell you what I use.

Good luck.

Jim Kelly

[Martinscholes]

The marketing firm will find someone to blame. It's in their nature...

[morestar]

Originally Posted by Martinscholes

The marketing firm will find someone to blame. It's in their nature...

ya but that's if they propose something that totally wrecks things in the end...the poster could simply be dis-gruntles at the change...let's see what happens. I hope the posted keep us updated...

simonm are you still going to be working on/with the site?

[kbrahmer]

New management often thinks it must assert itself. Change is how that is done regardless of promises otherwise. Change for the sake of change. Worse, management is often unable to accept responsibility for error if that change is a mistake. It was a good plan but it was not executed well.

Not always but often. Understand, that we have come to a basic change in the development of management personnel. During prosperous times, almost anyone can manage an enterprise as momentum overcomes trivial mistakes. But in times of a difficult economy - no longer a growing economy - management requires skill and wisdom to survive even trivial mistakes. There are plenty of examples of unskilled management in major corporations who are now failing. These were managers who considered their position to be making arbitrary decisions. More fluff than stuff.

You and the website are collateral damage. As that enterprise struggles your value may never be rediscovered or worse, denied for the reminder of their fallibility.

Prepare an analysis of before and after to keep in your portfolio. If the value of their internet presence improves, you weren't as good as you thought...learn from it. If it does not improve, use it to caution the next client who about to make the same mistake...albeit it may be a useless effort.

[ksawatzk]

Ah yes. Waaay back in the "dark ages" (2000-2) I stumbled into a part-time web job for a small upstart artificial turf company. I was directed by the CEO to redesign the entire site and do what I had to do to bypass the largest artificial turf company at the time for ALL the appropriate search terms. Over a year and a half, I did that and was paid quite handsomely for doing it part-time.

Then the company decided to put in a new LAN from the floor up, and, no surprise, the networking company that would run it had their own web team and didn't want anyone to be able to access the network from outside. I was allowed by the CEO to watch the new site being developed (all the new fancy FLASH stuff) and offer my thoughts. I informed the CEO that their fancy flash site would cost them every bit of SEO I had gained them and explained why, as I had several hundred pertinent pages with great keywords and percentage. They went ahead anyway. The CEO emailed me about 3 wks after the site went 'live' and said all their search engine placement had slid into the depths.

All I could do was tell him "I told you so..."

Stick to your principles but keep that backup in case they figure it out!

[weegillis]

Just when we think we're irreplaceable, we're replaced.

I believed once that a lot of good would one day come and that pages would accumulate. Way too many vagaries from my position of retrospect. I won't do again.

But as someone already pointed out, if you still have the content, you can always put it in the cloud. Make it public domain or nearly, and leave it to the wind. Your work is never lost.

[Doc]

I've been working as a consultant for many years, outside of the internet community, and I've seen the same thing happen time after time to many colleagues. It's just the nature of business.

Someone will always come along afterward, and say they can improve it more, or faster, or cheaper, and sometimes they'll be believed. If it hasn't happened to you yet, be prepared, because it will. Just move on, and if it makes you feel better, chuckle a little when you see them slide into the also-ran category. But don't let it get you down.

I had a client that hired us to turn around his business, from a half million dollars a month loss. In a year's time, my team and I got them to the point of netting an average of one and a half million a month, over a six month period.

What did they do? They decided they could handle it from there on out, and immediately went back to doing everything the same way they used to. They only lasted eight months, before their bank pulled the plug on them, and sold off their assets.

Rather than being bitter about not having my two year contract completed, I just went out and found another client. It goes with the territory.

[softlogic]

Originally Posted by Doc

They only lasted eight months, before their bank pulled the plug on them, and sold off their assets.

I had a similar experience with a large firm of lawyers. The customer were taken in by a competitor and their shiny offices. They felt they would be better off with them and their corporate image.

My contract was terminated.

The good news? - The competitor went into liquidation within 6 months and left the lawyers with a quarter of a million pound problem.

They came begging at my door.

My response? - I now have a new customer who needs my time - so tough.

Life is hard sometimes - but in my experience, what goes around comes around.

Best way is to move on and get stuck into your new client's requirements, and when the brown stuff hits the fan, and experience dictates it surely will, you can decide whether you want to pick up the pieces or not.

I chose not and now I am semi retired, travel the world in a leisurely fashion, living mainly in Spain, USA and UK when it suits me, do the odd job for love or pin money and to keep my hand in. - Great life!

[malco-UK]

You must fight this tooth and nail. I have had similar things happen to me over and over again, when having done a good job for clients for many years new management come along and, in an effort to sweep clean, ruin the business.
1. You must tell them what you post on this forum, your genuine concern.
2. You don't want to lose their business.
3. You will re-design the wbesite, for them, but use the things you know work.
Be upfront, be truthfull and fight for your corner.

[kgun]

Originally Posted by simonm

The company I have worked with has new management and a favoured marketing consultant, as a developer of brochures and perhaps even marketing - though they don't seem to know the difference between marketing and promotion - they might know their business, in terms of web they appear to be stuck in the last century.

Do you tell them that?

1. Never compete with your client.
2. Your client is your boss.

Originally Posted by malco-UK

1. You must tell them what you post on this forum, your genuine concern.

I would be careful with that.

Originally Posted by jimkelly7777

Run a report on the SERPS that are presently bringing in the customers and hold on to it. I'm sure you have the site backed up so hang on to it so you can re-publish it when the SERPS fall.

Then run a report each week on the same SERPS and keep precise records for as long as you need.

When they come back to you, you'll be ready.

If you don't have a programme to run these SERPS, contact me and I'll tell you what I use.

Good luck.

Jim Kelly

Don't use more of your time on them. May be you have done mistakes. Then admit it.

Originally Posted by kbrahmer

New management often thinks it must assert itself. Change is how that is done regardless of promises otherwise. Change for the sake of change. Worse, management is often unable to accept responsibility for error if that change is a mistake. It was a good plan but it was not executed well.

Not always but often. Understand, that we have come to a basic change in the development of management personnel. During prosperous times, almost anyone can manage an enterprise as momentum overcomes trivial mistakes. But in times of a difficult economy - no longer a growing economy - management requires skill and wisdom to survive even trivial mistakes. There are plenty of examples of unskilled management in major corporations who are now failing. These were managers who considered their position to be making arbitrary decisions. More fluff than stuff.

You and the website are collateral damage. As that enterprise struggles your value may never be rediscovered or worse, denied for the reminder of their fallibility.

Prepare an analysis of before and after to keep in your portfolio. If the value of their internet presence improves, you weren't as good as you thought...learn from it. If it does not improve, use it to caution the next client who about to make the same mistake...albeit it may be a useless effort.

Watch this Video - Breaking News Videos from CNN.com video three times. Ask yourself:

1. What is the message?
2. Can I learn something from it?

Originally Posted by softlogic

I had a similar experience with a large firm of lawyers. The customer were taken in by a competitor and their shiny offices. They felt they would be better off with them and their corporate image.

My contract was terminated.

The good news? - The competitor went into liquidation within 6 months and left the lawyers with a quarter of a million pound problem.

They came begging at my door.

My response? - I now have a new customer who needs my time - so tough.

Life is hard sometimes - but in my experience, what goes around comes around.

Best way is to move on and get stuck into your new client's requirements, and when the brown stuff hits the fan, and experience dictates it surely will, you can decide whether you want to pick up the pieces or not.

My bolding.

If they come back, hopefully you have new clients. If they ask you for a new engagement and you have time, show no feelings. Negotiate politely, but firm. Increase your price with 20 % if you think that is fair.

[simonm]

Excellent feedback and I've been having further conversations with the marketing director who is now torn between my advice and the others. One of the points I have made, which I have made repeatedly over the years is that: The website needs a major uplift, the design is old hat and tired - I am not a web designer. There is no need to lose SERPS with a major redesign, as long as structure and referential links are maintained, also, considering the business is now investing in the web more so than before, why start from scratch when they have 10 years of ongoing stats, not only what people look for but how they navigate the site.

As to numbers of visitors, this is a strictly B2B site so small compared to those aimed at domestic consumer. A new contact represents potentially big money, new contacts is something like 30 per 100 visitors, conversion to sales is their business. (one site I managed was considered a success if it gained a single sale a year. but that would represent £ 1 to 2 million turnover ) As to identifying the site, well commercial confidentiallity at the moment.. but I have a log of many generic keywords and terms that are currently No1, checked using megaproxy and 'keyword tracker' from digital point. If it all goes belly up then I'll give a list of keywords.

Options I have suggested are:
The new site is on 2 levels, Home page and subsidiary pages with broad service descriptions. Existing site has a third level with highly focused pages. Simply add that 3rd level to the new design retaining content but changing look and feel.

I will also suggest the creation of a completely new subsidiary site with 301 redirects from pages that are targetted at SEO. That leaves a corporate site and an additional site that is focused on search engines.

Generally I have described the way the site works, 75% come through searches for generic terms and not via home page as a big corporation where big customers are invited through the front doors, ie the home page. All the small customers come through the outlets!

[Dcrux]

...further conversations with the marketing director who is now torn between my advice and the others.

Sounds promising. This is a marketing forum. He is a marketing "director." There is no reason to be torn because -- as an expert in marketing -- the marketing director can do several things. One is A/B split run testing, a staple of the marketing industry.

Without more details about each version, the client, site objectives, and so on, it's difficult to really post any advice on the course of action suggested.

A "modern" site would be a site easy to avoid just this kind of situation because it's built as a testbed. A/B split run testing is the rule of the day. Have some new idea? Fine -- test. Management got a fad in its bonnet -- get it out of your system through testing.

One Option Not On The List. The hardest sale at least profit is the first sale to new customers. And most web design is myopic in its focus on the worst segments proven over decades as the least profitable. Want to show web design savvy? Want to show marketing savvy? Don't redesign -- realign -- with a tight focus on a best customer profile where you gear the site towards supporting more sales from existing customers.

What I haven't seen from either side in this is customer segmentation, profiling, and any hint the design supporting the growth of lifetime customer value. (Just FYI, customers have bought and could have bypassed the search engines -- you know, where the competition hangs out -- if only web design developed the savvy to support repeat customers. ...anybody ever hear of them? ....hello?!)

Actually, everybody should be pretty humble. Web design is shockingly primitive in understanding and supporting marketing.

[Doc]

Originally Posted by Dcrux

Sounds promising. This is a marketing forum. He is a marketing "director." There is no reason to be torn because -- as an expert in marketing -- the marketing director can do several things. One is A/B split run testing, a staple of the marketing industry.

Without more details about each version, the client, site objectives, and so on, it's difficult to really post any advice on the course of action suggested.

A "modern" site would be a site easy to avoid just this kind of situation because it's built as a testbed. A/B split run testing is the rule of the day. Have some new idea? Fine -- test. Management got a fad in its bonnet -- get it out of your system through testing.

One Option Not On The List. The hardest sale at least profit is the first sale to new customers. And most web design is myopic in its focus on the worst segments proven over decades as the least profitable. Want to show web design savvy? Want to show marketing savvy? Don't redesign -- realign -- with a tight focus on a best customer profile where you gear the site towards supporting more sales from existing customers.

What I haven't seen from either side in this is customer segmentation, profiling, and any hint the design supporting the growth of lifetime customer value. (Just FYI, customers have bought and could have bypassed the search engines -- you know, where the competition hangs out -- if only web design developed the savvy to support repeat customers. ...anybody ever hear of them? ....hello?!)

Actually, everybody should be pretty humble. Web design is shockingly primitive in understanding and supporting marketing.

Simon, I think Dcrux has an excellent point. I think an A/B test run can be easily sold to the company, as a low cost alternative to throwing all their eggs in one unknown basket. And it will give you an opportunity to really drive home your point.

[dwhs]

SEO is not dead it's just not how to get top ranked. You need to do a lot more then just SEO but you also need SEO no matter what. Basically SEO is the fundamental start for any website and should be kept up every month. But that is not nearly enough to get top ranked. You need a good website and to be very popular.

[GameFriends]

Even if SEO is dieing, or whatever you want to call it, we have to live in the now (reality) as well. If you have a website already set up with thousands of content rich, title/descrip/tags pages which are getting organic traffic I don't really see the point of consolidating into one page which loads everything (unless the end user experience will justify the loss of organic traffic), which could in turn bring about it's own organic traffic (word of mouth). Slippery slope.

[simonm]

Originally Posted by Doc

Simon, I think Dcrux has an excellent point. I think an A/B test run can be easily sold to the company, as a low cost alternative to throwing all their eggs in one unknown basket. And it will give you an opportunity to really drive home your point.

Totally agree with Doc's comment and have already pressed the client to do this, even splitting off a subsidiary site and mapping urls, 301s etc. They don't seem to want to go there.

This is the latest email from the company doing the new website:

"Please can you send me a breakdown of the key search terms currently used on the site so that we can make sure that we include them in the keywords and on the pages as appropriate. Can I have them by the end of the week please?"

I'm trying to be polite in my response.

[Doc]

Originally Posted by simonm

Totally agree with Doc's comment and have already pressed the client to do this, even splitting off a subsidiary site and mapping urls, 301s etc. They don't seem to want to go there.

This is the latest email from the company doing the new website:

"Please can you send me a breakdown of the key search terms currently used on the site so that we can make sure that we include them in the keywords and on the pages as appropriate. Can I have them by the end of the week please?"

I'm trying to be polite in my response.

It's been several years since I lived in Kent, Simon. But if memory serves me...

wouldn't that be something like, "Get stuffed!" ?

[kgun]

Originally Posted by simonm

I'm trying to be polite in my response.

Always be polite.

One bad reference may do more damage than 100 good. That is about reputation management and reputation building.

I say what I mean and sometimes think. That has not always been an advantage.

So do as I say and not as I do.

[Doc]

Originally Posted by kgun

Always be polite.

One bad reference may do more damage than 100 good. That is about reputation management and reputation building.

I say what I mean and sometimes think. That has not always been an advantage.

So do as I say and not as I do.

Seems to be a common affliction, Kjell! And of course, you are absolutely correct. One should NEVER burn bridges, regardless of how unlikely it may seem that we would ever want to cross them again.

Still, "get stuffed" has a satisfying sound to it. I love the British ability to conjure images without resorting to vulgarity.

[LDAnklebiter]

Don't get mad, get even!

When a certain 'design' company who actually were very good technically with developing websites but had no web promotion skills started to bad mouth me to a long term client - the client fortunately told them where to go, he was a client so "get stuffed" was permissible, especially when they were totally unable to show any record in SEO which they were claiming to be experts in. Well, I thought I had to demonstrate a certain skill. Its only been live for a couple of weeks but for a search for LDAdesign (not the regeneration website) , sadly its like taking candy from a baby....

Is this immoral?

[deepsand]

Originally Posted by simonm

My personal view is that if you design for humans, really look at what the person is on the site for, then it will almost certainly be suitable for google.

In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice; in practice, there is frequently a great deal of difference.

Google really isn't very good at determining what the searcher will or will not find "suitable;" it's simply a bit better than some other SEs.

[venividi]

Originally Posted by techmaniac

Tell them to save a backup of your website, as they'll want to restore some semblance of the previous site once they realize their error.

This is too easy: if it is not successful we can go back. No, things do not work like this:
when something similar happened to me a few years ago and the client ca back and asked me to please please reinstall the previous files, which I did for free but declining any other assignment from them, there was nothing doing, the site improved its rankings over its new version but was never able to return to its previous splendor.

[stephen186]

I think that there are some of the factors that are majorly responsible for the decline and fall of a great website. Some of them can be-

Improper promotion of website during the maturity stage.
Modifications were not done on a timely basis.
The content may not be updated regularly.
The competitor's strategy may be better than that of the declining website.

There may be some other things also that are responsible for it.

[simplybookit]

Originally Posted by Dcrux

There are sites that don't rank well, use adwords, and convert like crazy because they didn't design for Google -- they designed for humans.

It's hard to tell what's going on in these cases, but web marketing firms can be notorious for knowing everything about gimmicks and little to nothing about marketing.

Let us make one thing clear. From a marketing standpoint, 6,000 visits is irrelevant. It's conversions that count. Two sites can have wildly different traffic volume, and the site with lower volume does better business because 1) It get highly targeted traffic 2) The site qualifies leads who are the best candidates to become customers. 3) Focuses on converting that traffic.

It is a huge SEO myth that more traffic is necessarily better. Or if you convert at 5% at at 500 visits you will continue to convert 5% at 3,000. You might even convert so poorly the added expense outweighs the few added sales.

Yes, more traffic might even result in less net cash in your pocket when everything is taken into account.

Marketers -- the real ones -- learned long ago quality traffic is one of the most valuable assents. Tons of sites have gotten dugg, seen traffic soar, and got nothing to show for it but increased bandwidth costs. Traffic costs money -- conversions make money. Basic marketing.

You are right to distance yourself and let results argue for you. A sales drop will nag the customer far more effectively than anything.

I like your post. People all the time talk about traffic only. It is really true that it's quality traffic that counts.. I am happy to get 100 visits a day and get 10% conversion than getting 1000 visit a day without any conversion

[deepsand]

The word "quality" is, in the absence of its being carefully defined, a most subjective one.

Which, for example, has the higher "quality" traffic - 100 visits w/ 10% conversion; or, 1000 visits w/ 2% conversion?

[Oshine]

Are you sure that google always gets it right? I feel they get it wrong many times. Also as we don't know the exact alogrithm that they use for there serach results, it does not matter. You are always at their mercy

[deepsand]

Originally Posted by Oshine

Are you sure that google always gets it right?

I doubt that you'll find anyone here who believes that any SE always "gets it right."