How do you Sell SEO?

[JBullet]

There are various ways in which to sell online marketing to clients and thought I would start a discussion on how you all do this. I know this might be confidential to you but I'm more than happy to share and thought others might be too.

First of all, I know it will depend on the type of client and where you are in the world, but I can certainly say from my own experience that clients want tangible results. With SEO, this can be:

• Achieving high ranking positions
• Increase in traffic

When I deal with clients, I look at the long tail first with a view to using keywords which are also suitable to be optimised for medium and short tail keywords too (e.g. "outdoor advertising" which can also be used for "advertising"). I also target medium tail keywords during this initial stage. Going for the long and medium tail first enables me to show a client quick results and an increase in traffic and then having developed a relationship and trust with the client, we can talk about investing more time in going for more ambitious keywords.

Do you have other methods for selling SEO?

[morestar]

Before i present the idea of SEO to a client I decide if the keywords we'd be competing for will be too difficult or not to compete against.

But if I feel secure enough to compete for those keywords then I explain to them the need to have a website ranked high enough in the search engines in order to bring more traffic as opposed to simply having a web presence without any links to it or anything.

I basically ask them, how do you think people are going to find your site. I wait for their 'thought pause' and answer the question for them: search engines and namely google...

[Jlee350]

I always start with a review and benchmark of the current site to gain insight into their strengths and weaknesses. I think this helps to manage expectations and offers a good place to start.

[Christiaan]

From the mouth of a consultant of a very large Audit/Accounting firm, after a few bottles of good red:

Find out what the client want.
Package what he/she wants in a nice box with ribbons and what not, then sell it to them.

[jordanmcclements]

This is a very good question.

I am always glad that it is Google Adwords I am trying to sell rather than SEO. *Much* easier!

[InfoHQ.us]

It is new but I suggest article videos.

See an example (not mine) on YouTube - How to Increase Your Stress: 10 Winning Strategies For Achieving That Heart Attack in Record Time

Since SEs can't read video files, there is no duplicate content issue.

To get good serp, prepare proper video sitemap.

I'm not sure about the future of article videos when scammers start (probably already started) using
video sitemaps to cheat SEs.

More about article videos on http://www.articlevideorobot.com/

[Doc]

I'm not in the business of welling SEO, per se, but it occurs to me that it would be most easily understood, comparing a lack of SEO effort to a having bought telephone service, and making no effort to publicize your phone number!

You're going to miss a lot of calls!

[williamc]

selling SEO is simple, just be able to actually rank.......

[Pico_Train]

williamc has a point that should be expanded on.

If you have a portfolio of sites you have optimised that rank well, show the client some of the results, the better ones obviously.

Something like "pink ribbons on doggies for valentines day" probably won't impress them but good rankings for something like "dog grooming services Googleville" will.

Otherwise, word of mouth works well too ...

Where is Googleville anyway?

[williamc]

Originally Posted by Pico_Train

Where is Googleville anyway?

Routes #1, 2, & 3 all converge there

[satheesh]

Thats a better idea.

[pervezalam_mzn]

Portfolio is the most important way to show your client, Show your working project's results to client and definitely you will find the results.

[aattwood]

I sell subscriptions but pretty much its about selling seo. I need to show how ranking for a relavant keyword brings up my site and as such will deliver traffic to the client. Pretty much its a case of displaying ability and delivering results rather than prommising the world and not delivering

[earnest]

Just don't say you offer cheap services with guaranteed results if you expect to do business with sane people.

[Feydakin]

meh - I show improvements in ROI and cash flow.. I can't remember the last time I showed a potential client rankings to prove I knew what I was doing.. I track them for the client after I'm hired because that is what they expect, but then I know 'they get it' when they send me emails like this -

Annnnnnnnnd, we have been getting calls/sales and emails about xxxxx xxxxx. yea!!!!

No mention of rankings at all, just sales..

[crankydave]

Originally Posted by Feydakin

meh - I show improvements in ROI and cash flow.. I can't remember the last time I showed a potential client rankings to prove I knew what I was doing.. I track them for the client after I'm hired because that is what they expect, but then I know 'they get it' when they send me emails like this -

Annnnnnnnnd, we have been getting calls/sales and emails about xxxxx xxxxx. yea!!!!

No mention of rankings at all, just sales..

yep, yep, and yep

Spend enough time with a potential client intitially, to find out what it is they hope to accomplish, precisely what it is the hope to accomplish, AND why.

Getting a client on the first page means nothing unless all they wanted to be was on the first page so they could frame and hang a screenshot above the water cooler.

Dave

[Junglejim6113]

As the recipient of SEO services over past 9 years, I've boiled my initial requirements down to 3 criteria.
1) Honesty and Little Hype
2) Effectiveness
3) 30 day net terms.

If the SEO firm can really do what they say, if they truly have confidence in their hype, they will let me pay after the work is done. Almost every other service or product that is commerced in the B2B world is exchanged with payment terms. A reputable and self confident SEO firm should extend terms to their clients too.

My litmus test test is whether the SEO firm will let me pay after the work. Otherwise, your hype just wastes my time.

[impactwebdesign]

You can sell SEO simply there are many options in the market you can find to sell SEO for you.

You can also find some one who requires SEO in this forum also.

You can also use google for it.

[williamc]

Jim: While that is all well and good for you, how about the SEO? You may be honest and actually pay for proper services rendered, however life on the net does not always go that way. It has nothing to do with an SEO's abilities when a client expects to pay only when they rank for competitive keywords that the SEO must pay out of pocket for to get there. Then, even tho it was the clients pick of keywords, they do not do as well as the client had hoped and suddenly it is not a great deal to them and they disapear or just refuse to pay. That is a single possibility, which has happened in the past. There are hundreds of other valid reasons not to do as you would like. Is this hype? No, it is simply telling you the facts of OUR daily lives.

[Doc]

William, I don't think it's reasonable for a client to expect any contractor or provider to spend out of their own pocket for someone else's benefit. At the very least, direct expenses should be either paid for up front, or invoiced directly to the client. As for clients refusing to pay, after the fact, I thing a properly prepared set of T & C, signed by both parties, would give you some teeth for enforcing payment.

And as a fallback, if they refuse to pay, "adjusting" your previous efforts, to put them at the south end of 1,341,712 Google results! (tongue in cheek, that last, but I would certainly put them right back where I found them!)

[williamc]

I do not think it is reasonable either, however they do.

[NJ]

Originally Posted by williamc

Jim: While that is all well and good for you, how about the SEO? You may be honest and actually pay for proper services rendered, however life on the net does not always go that way. It has nothing to do with an SEO's abilities when a client expects to pay only when they rank for competitive keywords that the SEO must pay out of pocket for to get there. Then, even tho it was the clients pick of keywords, they do not do as well as the client had hoped and suddenly it is not a great deal to them and they disapear or just refuse to pay. That is a single possibility, which has happened in the past. There are hundreds of other valid reasons not to do as you would like. Is this hype? No, it is simply telling you the facts of OUR daily lives.

Actually, don't we tell clients to beware of folks who "guarantee" search engine placement as scammers?

In my opinion, the first place to start is with a thorough analyasis of your client's current traffic stats. If they see where they are, it's pretty easy for them to see where they can go. Especially if you have some comparisons on other sites to show them!

[williamc]

Originally Posted by NJ

Actually, don't we tell clients to beware of folks who "guarantee" search engine placement as scammers?

Yes. I was merely using that as an example of what happens.

Putting all of the power in the clients hands is assuring yourself of many headaches later no matter how well you do your work.

[Junglejim6113]

I would say that 80% or more of the sales calls I get from SEO'ers are scammers. As a potential client, it is really hard to tell the difference between the good guys and the ones trying to make a fast $3000. There is a legitimate need for good SEO work and it is a shame that the scammers have made it so hard for competent, honest SEO'ers and potential clients to trust each other.

From the client perspective, I want to know that I can trust you to give me an honest effort for my money. That's the primary reason that I use the payment terms as a litmus test.

How to sell SEO?
Establish Trust, Perform Competently, and Establish a Friendly Relationship. The money will be no problem.

[Feydakin]

Originally Posted by Junglejim6113

Almost every other service or product that is commerced in the B2B world is exchanged with payment terms. A reputable and self confident SEO firm should extend terms to their clients too.

Radio ads, TV ads, billboards, newspaper ads, phone book, etc.. All marketing gets paid up front.. SEO is a subset of marketing..

I appreciate that you want to pay after work is performed, but SEO work can take months to show up as results and expecting to see results in 30 days is usually unrealistic.. Just my opinion..

[Feydakin]

Originally Posted by Junglejim6113

I would say that 80% or more of the sales calls I get from SEO'ers are scammers.

I would put the cold call SEOs that are scammers at a FAR higher number than 80%.. I love it when I get them here.. Gives me something to do for a few minutes while I make them squirm..

[Doc]

This is a difficult point for some people to get past, I think.

From the client's perspective, who is purchasing some ethereal effect that he doesn't really understand, there's a concern that he's getting taken for a high-dollar ride.

From the reputable SEO tech., who fully understands the benefits he is offering, there's a concern that HE (or she ) will end up working for free.

Some creative T & C can usually overcome such concerns, at least in great part. But I agree with Feydakin, that marketing is typically paid for up front, and there is no way that the SEO should have to wait the 3 - 6 months that may be necessary, for results to gel.

Some sort of association must exist, that would lend more credibility to certified SEOs...buyers tend to feel more comfortable when they see the Better Business Bureau behind you, even though it means next to nothing. If no such society exists, perhaps it's time to form one. It couldn't hurt.

[Feydakin]

The problem with any association is that of who sets the rules?? Almost every other industry has a printed guide book of exactly what to do to achieve a desired result.. Programming, auto mechanics, doctors, plumbers, etc etc etc.. But since the search engines keep their sauce secret, there is no solid way to say "these things will get you this every single time".. Everything we do is best educated guess based on research, testing, and talking with other people in the industry..

But you can't even get all of the top level SEOs to agree on more than a few things.. Start mixing in managers, mid level SEOs, newbs, and lookers on, who gets to set the certification process??

Every time someone tries to start one huge amounts of drama ensue as people argue over who gets to set the rules.. There are a couple out there now, but nothing with enough traction outside the industry to make anyone care..

[Doc]

Aye, and ain't human nature a wondrous thing to behold?

Originally Posted by Feydakin

The problem with any association is that of who sets the rules?? Almost every other industry has a printed guide book of exactly what to do to achieve a desired result.. Programming, auto mechanics, doctors, plumbers, etc etc etc.. But since the search engines keep their sauce secret, there is no solid way to say "these things will get you this every single time".. Everything we do is best educated guess based on research, testing, and talking with other people in the industry..

But you can't even get all of the top level SEOs to agree on more than a few things.. Start mixing in managers, mid level SEOs, newbs, and lookers on, who gets to set the certification process??

Every time someone tries to start one huge amounts of drama ensue as people argue over who gets to set the rules.. There are a couple out there now, but nothing with enough traction outside the industry to make anyone care..

[Webby]

The best new clients are referal clients. If your'e a good SEO you will have success stories and you will have happy bunnys as clients. Offer encouragement to those happy clients to recommend you to others. Get testiminials from them. You could even go as far as to offer them a rebate on their fees for every new client they bring to you. I've run an SEO comapany since 2002 and have never had a sales person or team. Never needed one as 80% of our clients come from referals. The rest come from the fact we rank very well for our seo search terms. Cold calling has never been an option here and never will be. Stands at varuious online fairs or exhibitions can also bring new business (watch the ROI as some exhibitions are way overpriced for a stand).

Alan

[TechLH]

Originally Posted by morestar

Before i present the idea of SEO to a client I decide if the keywords we'd be competing for will be too difficult or not to compete against.

Too difficult? Bah!

Originally Posted by feydakin

meh - I show improvements in ROI and cash flow.. I can't remember the last time I showed a potential client rankings to prove I knew what I was doing.. I track them for the client after I'm hired because that is what they expect, but then I know 'they get it' when they send me emails like this -

Annnnnnnnnd, we have been getting calls/sales and emails about xxxxx xxxxx. yea!!!!

No mention of rankings at all, just sales..

You're right, Feydakin. At the end of the day, clients care about their bottom line. If it's up, and they can blame it on you, you're golden.

[williamc]

heyas techlh, nice to see ya here, hows yer convention thing going?

[TechLH]

Hi williamc, good to be "back" (my last login was Oct 3, 2007 haha).

Convention/seminar is going well. Just talked to Ogletree and he'll be speaking at it as well. Thanks for asking. (Info at MarketSTL.com)

As for selling SEO, how many of you have a nice 'presentation' that you go through when you meet potential clients? I have a PPT which I also created into a flip-book which has charts, shows things like "89% of searchers don't go past page one" blah blah...

I've found that the flip book is a great conversation starter. Something in it always hits home with the client, and once you recognize these signals, you expand on it.

[CompuGeneration]

Originally Posted by jordanmcclements

This is a very good question.

I am always glad that it is Google Adwords I am trying to sell rather than SEO. *Much* easier!

I think that PPC plays such a huge role in overall SEO process.

As others have mentioned it's the bottom line that most business owners/operators are concerned with. PPC campaigns instantly provide you with measurable results. Once you've figured out which campaigns are profitable you can now start working on natural SEO efforts for those particular products/services/keywords.

[williamc]

Originally Posted by CompuGeneration

I think that PPC plays such a huge role in overall SEO process.

Uhh, PPC plays NO role in the SEO process. It is a completely different marketing subset.

[goodfta]

I perfer to speak to people about SEO in person or people I am familar with, both on IRC, and in real life. I find speaking to people in real life gives you a better assessment of their wants and needs.

[aattwood]

Originally Posted by williamc

Uhh, PPC plays NO role in the SEO process. It is a completely different marketing subset.

You are correct of course but having played with PPC first allows you to hit the ground running and has a major spinn off. You know know which words are the best ones to target. I say that starting SEO by first doing PPC is not a bad recomendation

[williamc]

Originally Posted by aattwood

You are correct of course but having played with PPC first allows you to hit the ground running and has a major spinn off. You know know which words are the best ones to target. I say that starting SEO by first doing PPC is not a bad recomendation

Standard keyword research will do the exact same for you.

[aattwood]

yes but ppc delivers traffic from the start where as seo takes months to kick in. So it still holds in my opinion ppc first then seo

[williamc]

Originally Posted by aattwood

yes but ppc delivers traffic from the start where as seo takes months to kick in. So it still holds in my opinion ppc first then seo

I didn't disagree with the aspect of ppc first for the reason of getting traffic fast. Only that it had any effect or help on or with seo.

[aattwood]

But clearly seo is not to be forgotten

[SEObyCanz]

I don't agree tat SEO takes months to get any feasible effect or results, that "fact" is battered around as one the the big truths of SEO, and I have never found this to be true.

I do of course agree, that stable results can take a while to achieve, but not as a general rule.

Even with a brand new domain name and website, if the budget is there right from the start, getting the sites main pages indexed quickly is easy and the other lesser pages soon follow.

With an existing website, I have started getting results in 27 hours, and those results in general stayed high in search engines. Sometimes they slip a little, but that's where the ongoing seo comes in.

Maybe that SEO takes months to get results was started by the sleazy SEO's.

As for paying an SEO after they work, no way, it's too easy to get the results you want and then just stop answering emails and phone calls.

Another point, if as an SEO you get results too quickly often clients think you waved a magic wand to achieve them, and don't think you deserve payment... to say nothing that you spent a week of 15 hour days to get those results. If you have been paid, and the results show themselves quickly the client is thrilled.

Cheers Lynny

[morestar]

Originally Posted by SEObyCanz

I do of course agree, that stable results can take a while to achieve, but not as a general rule.

Even with a brand new domain name and website, if the budget is there right from the start, getting the sites main pages indexed quickly is easy and the other lesser pages soon follow.

especially if you're utilizing adwords let's say, and the analytics prove that you have high conversion rates from the get go - this indicates that your keywords are neatly related to the search terms your site/ads are being found for. This helps build trust that you site is providing relevant content and thus the logical thing that would happen is your site gets good rankings cause everyone wins.