Tips to help get a top ranking. part 1

Czar · #1 (**permalink**) 10-10-2003, 02:22 AM

I have heard much talk on people needing hits needing ranking ect... for there websites... so I went and did alittle reasearch for yall :-)

Here are some options for submiting your website to search engines and how they may or may not work for you.

1. Using a free submission service.

Basicly this is by far the worst way to go...free submission sites sound like a good deal but their actualy not... sites use algorithems to configure ranking... free submission services submit the same information to every site which actualy lowers your chances of being found.

2.Using a low-cost automated submission service

In the long run its not much better then the free submission service... it gets your name out to probably 900 sites but again its the same information that isn't specific to the particular search engines requirements. Some even say that they resubmit from time to time but you could end up loosing your spot as well as perhaps getting band for spamming. BE CRITICAL.

3.Manually Submitting Your Web Site Information To Each Individual Search Engine

This is one of the best free ways to do it. By tailoring what is added to the submission you are insuring that every site is getting just what it needs to be success full in the ranking scheme of things. However. This does have its down sides it can be very time consuming and labor intensive and also has no pros involved to make sure your keeping up to date.

4. Use A Professional Search Engine Consultant

This option is by far the most effective. By using professionals you are guaranteed to have everything submited tried and tested with little effort on your part. On the down side this service doesn't come cheep. Prices ranging from 600-1000 dollars in order to have it done properly with the feed back you diserve/require.

Again be sure to be CRITICAL check their references and listen for word of mouth.. not everything is full proof or honestly what it seems.

5. Using submission software.

This isn't something that comes highly recommended. Versions come and go as well as the technology and information needed to have this operate successfully. Their is no promise that this method is either successful or even worth while.

Something that I have Stressed through this post is being Critical... if something sounds to good to be true it probably is. The main bit of advice that has been passed around is choose the proper keywords they will make all the difference.

I hope this helps

Czar

internetbasedmom · #2 (**permalink**) 10-10-2003, 01:46 PM

How about not submitting at all? Just build quality incoming links to your site and the spiders will find you. It is a viable option.

In my opinion, it's really not necessary to hire anyone to submit your site to a search engine. Sure, you can hire a professional to optimize your copy, incoming links, meta tags, etc....but submission really is the least important part of the SEO puzzle.

Of course, when it comes directories, you will need to hand submit. These are edited by critical human beings. You need to read all the guideliness posted on the website and in the case of the Open Directory Project (http://dmoz.org), you may want to visit the forums for some help.

Alice

Johann · #3 (**permalink**) 10-10-2003, 02:48 PM

Submission and SEO or Search Engine optimization are not the same. If your site is not optimized increased submissions is not going to improve your ranking.

You can even live without the submission to the crawling engines, as long as you have some amount of incoming links to get you indexed. Hand submit, hand submit.

Another issue is "Traffic is not the same as Business" If your traffic is not targeted your sales conversion is going to be low. You can even end up with high traffic site and no business.

Start with planning your site. Who you want to visit the site? What do you want them to do when they arrive?

Do keyword analysis before you start anything else.
Write the copy for the people above to get them to do what you want. Then it's time to optimize and submit.

This is a simplified version, but I see too many sites that haven't even decided why they built the site in the first place.

Wacky · #4 (**permalink**) 10-10-2003, 05:27 PM

Feedbacks on Webposition Gold? They've been around for some time haven't they?

alienzhavelanded · #5 (**permalink**) 10-10-2003, 07:35 PM

I've always submitted my sites by hand and coded them to be spider friendly. Seems to work just fine, so I don't bother myself with any "extras" for submitting and getting indexed.

The Martian

Jim-Grill · #6 (**permalink**) 10-10-2003, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wacky

Feedbacks on Webposition Gold? They've been around for some time haven't they?

I've used Web Position Gold for many years now. I have also been getting their newsletter for many years and have come to respect them for their honesty and integrity.

I use the page critic feature of WPG to get a good idea of what I could correct on my pages. It's a good reference and good place to start. The page critic can also download a competitor's page and do a comparison. That is a nice feature as well.

I don't however, recommend the automatic submission tool - or any automatic submission tool. As a start, it's better to hand submit to the major SE's. As everyone else has also mentioned, all you need are some good incoming links and you'll get spidered.

All said, WPG is a good tool to have in the old web-dev tool box, but it's only a tool - not to replace hard work and experience.

(back on topic)
I think the number one way to start on a top ranking is to 1) optimize your pages for your relevant keywords, and 2) start building incoming links with other sites.

I have been in business on the web now for many years and have seen good times and bad. I've had top ranking pages and also had them disappear. In my experience one thing is very evident: submitting is probably one the most over rated and misunderstood aspects of search engine optimization. Link popularity is obviously the more important aspect now days.

namita · #7 (**permalink**) 10-11-2003, 03:20 AM

What is incoming links? And how do i do that?

Namita

showerherbaby · #8 (**permalink**) 10-11-2003, 04:17 AM

Okay. To say that I am a newbie, is a complete understatement. I am trying to learn all that I can, but WOW it is all so overwhelming. I had someone build my website for me and I honestly thought, "great, as soon as he is done with my site I will have people from all over flocking to my web site to buy all kinds of things." (Please see underlined above). So after I tried searching for my web site and couldn't find it, I expressed my concerns and said that my site must not be "turned on yet" because I can't seem to find it...anywhere! After he probably was able to keep a straight face, he then directed me to the "free" search engines to submit. I did that. (Luckily though, that is how I found this web site). So anyhoo, now that I have already done that, what should I do next? I have read all of the articles on submitting your site, (I think) but I am unsure of which way I should go since I have already submitted. I am ready to roll up my sleaves and do the work, I just need to know what to do next.

Also, how do I go about finding what my ranking is? Someone checked for me once and it was like (Four katrillion) or something close. (heavy sigh). I guess I should mention that my web site is for baby shower everything, and gifts. I would sure appreciate your input. (crossing fingers and saying please...please...please).

Sherry
www.showerherbaby.com

aquamarina · #9 (**permalink**) 10-11-2003, 05:56 AM

Ditto everything from Sherry at showerherbaby.com! And I am so frustrated! From what I've read (a lot), it seems that keywords are the thing to crack .... but how do you balance the need to get as many of these into your site, without producing a site which doesn't read well (showerherbaby seems to do this better than I did so if that's the only factor, what is the problem????). I'm a yacht charter broker, and when I wrote my site, I needed to end up with something which read well, like a brochure ... it's partly a tool which backs up my other marketing activities. But I do need to generate direct business from my website....but (yep, another 'but') don't want to sacrifice readability and presentation for something which just crams as many keywords into the homepage as possible. I've submitted (paid) the site to all the major engines, (and had good rankings on msn for main keyword phrases until two weeks ago, when I suddenly vanished! ..... WHY??????) Google adwords generated a few enquiries, and convinced me, after those enquiries turned to sales, that I can actually do what I set out to do and shouldn't give up altogether! I've also linked to as many yacht sites as I can .... but these sites need to be reputable in the industry, and when I consider my whole marketing plan, this is a highly competitive business but one where you need to be a bit cool imagewise.

What I want to know is:
1. Is a part of this whole thing that you have to be patient with a new site and wait for the spiders to find you over and over? And does this improve your listings/rankings over time? (my site has only been up since April).
2. Can you succeed with a site with great content, or do you really have to stuff it with repeated, repeated, repeated keywords which spoil the flow of your text? (Which if I have to, I will ....)

And a separate moan .... how FRUSTRATING is it to have to compete with poor quality, badly produced sites which appear above yours in the rankings?????!!!!!!!!!! But that's the nature of the beast, I know.

Any thoughts out there? ... I am such a new kid on the block with regards to all this but I am sure that I'm not the only struggling with these issues.

Karen

PS. Sherry ... your site looks great to my (inexperienced in these things) eyes!

www.aquamarinayachts.com

Gary Golden · #10 (**permalink**) 10-11-2003, 07:04 AM

Put up a link page then exchange link with sites that would draw business, go to the link exchange part of this site.
The key to any sites success is market, market, market. He who waits gets no business and if you are looking for a short term windfall, forget it! But operating a website is a learning experience and you need to learn everything about your site if you want to stay in business. Web business is like brick and mortar business, if you hire everything done then your overhead will swallow you up. The information on this site is all free, read and learn. I have been online for 3+ years on one of my sites and just over a year on the others, my profit is 0 but it does now pay for all paid advertising and hosting and I work my site 7 days a week just like my brick and mortar business in hopes that some day I will be able to live on this business and not physically work so much. So I say good luck and stay focused and get up a link page on your site or sites, not on someone elses site. Build doorway pages that lead in to your main site, each with different titles and keywords but all relevant to your main site. The more the marrier, but this means developing content to build each page with. Another idea is buy more domain names relevant to your site as they only run $7.00 - $10. per name and attach them to the various pages.
I have over 20 domain names, all of which give me access to different areas of my business offering me a wide range of keywords to build on.
The rest you will learn by trial and error, but good luck to you!
Once you have a link page feel free to link my sites and offer a link back.
Additionally you want to link to people that work their site as I hope you will. Anyone who sets their site up and never works it is not worth linking to as you are doing all of the work and they are recieving the benefit. How do you know this? by everthing that I have mentioned.
Keep you site updated and refreshed also as a stale sight will not get good rankings. I am sorry to ramble on but when you usually do several things at the same time you tend to jump topics quite regularly.

Thank you,
Have a great day!

BrandsAndNovelties.com · #11 (**permalink**) 10-11-2003, 03:01 PM

I have been online for almost three years now. I cant say I am a professional in this field, but I just wanted to let you all know of a WONDERFUL resource for Search Engine Submission and Optimization.

http://selfpromotion.com/?CF=tryall

Please note: I am note related to the owners or administrators of this website, I am ONLY telling you about it bec I believe it is one of the MOST VALUABLE FREE resource in this field.

Best Regards

janeth · #12 (**permalink**) 10-11-2003, 03:52 PM

I have read a lot of post by ohioadman and as always he gives great advice.
I would like to add one thing t what he said.
Here are a couple things to keep in mind while exchanging links.
There is no one thing for any site but link popularity may be the thing that will give your site the edge over your competition.

Start by increasing the number of links to you site the more quality links the better.

Links from popular sites will be given a higher vote then one with a lower popularity ranking.

All links must be from a different url several links from one site will only count as one vote.

Make sure you use your key words in the link and not just your site name.

Get directory Listings. Links from large, human powered directories are weighted very heavily.

Make sure you link to sites in a related category to your site.

Make sure your link is high on the page. If your link is after 30 other sites then it could end up not even being counted. Try to be as high on the page as you can get.

showerherbaby · #13 (**permalink**) 10-11-2003, 05:27 PM

Thank you to everyone for your valuable input. The first chance I get, I will be setting up a links page. Since I had someone build my site, am I able to edit my keywords, links pages, etc... or will I have to go through him to do this?

Ohioadman, you said that hiring everything done will swallow up all of my profits...(so to speak) and I am finding this out. I have thought about doing the pay-per-click, but if I can add some valuable link pages, would that still be necessary?

Samer, thank you for the info, I will check them out.

Janeth, I have read your posts as well and you always seem to offer good advice. I will make my links pages soon.

Aquamarina, I wish you the best of luck. I visited your site and it was wonderful. I love the way it is set up. It's not cluttered and with the colors and pictures you chose it is very relaxing. (My newbie opinion) but I think everyone will agree:)

Thank you again all.
Sherry
www.showerherbaby.com

showerherbaby · #14 (**permalink**) 10-11-2003, 05:30 PM

Sorry, one more thing I forgot to add. I have 5 other names that are linked back to my site. I should put some content on these other linked urls as well, right?

paulwbaker · #15 (**permalink**) 10-12-2003, 05:37 AM

The best way for any site to find 'customers' is to exchange links with other sites, you may lose some business but that'll only last as long as you need those sites to attract business for your needs. You'll just have to have a little price war until you’re up and running then lose the links page if your uncomfortable with it.

Word of mouth - get it in the paper, post the site info through doors and tell everyone who you know who walks through the door etc.

Next is keywords, not too many but enough to get those spiders looking for you so think what you want the site to achieve and then find the right words!

showerherbaby · #16 (**permalink**) 10-12-2003, 04:49 PM

Hi Paul,

I visited your site, but please keep in mind that I am very new to all of this. One thing I was wanting to know was why you chose to write about the Hussars? Will anyone that visits the site already know this? I would like to see on the first page, after the intro, who you are and why you chose the Hussars to write about. What is your interest in all of this? Something like that.

I love the way the Hussar Regiments script follows as you scroll down the page, but it makes it a little hard to read the text. I know that you said you lightened the page up, but maybe you could bold the text, or make the text darker.

I have to scroll to the right to get all of the page in view, is there any way of shrinking that up a bit?

I love all of your pictures and I like the old world look to it. It is very informative, but still I (as a reader) would like to know why you developed this site, i.e. your interest in this.

The intro was cool, but I like the look and feel of your first page better. Maybe you could use the Hussar Regiments Script in the background of the intro.

I know this may sound odd, but when I visit a site, the ones that really grab me are the ones that use text and colors and script that match the theme of the web site. For an example, Aquamarina's site, I feel like it sets the mood for what she is offering. (the color of blue that was chosen reminds me of the waters). Your site does this very well also.

showerherbaby · #17 (**permalink**) 10-12-2003, 04:55 PM

oops! Sorry. I hit the wrong button. I hope I didn't sound to negative because all and all I like your site.

www.showerherbaby.com

paulwbaker · #18 (**permalink**) 10-13-2003, 07:06 AM

The site has been set to 100% and should be all within the screen. I have looked at the site and can see no reason for it to work as it should?

I have been thinking about losing the intro as it is rather distracting and it was just done to see if I could do it. As for the text? I have tries to do it several ways and the problem remains, I may have to rethink the layout and do it all again shortly.

Thanks

Paul

paulwbaker · #19 (**permalink**) 10-13-2003, 07:10 AM

Is it just the main page or the whole site?? I have noticed that the menu bar was set to pixel rather than percent, could you have another look and let me know please.

Paul@hussars.org

aquamarina · #20 (**permalink**) 10-13-2003, 09:17 AM

Thank you! This is all the most useful, informative, and UNDERSTANDABLE advice on the internet marketing quagmire that I've EVER received .... and I shall be taking a lot of this advice (especially on reciprocal links and from then on as much as I do understand it!) and keeping up with new posts.

And thank you, Sherry, for your encouragement about our website ... and I wish you all the very, very best for your business.

It seems to be that to succeed one of the keys is that you know your site, your product and market, and how to promote it YOURSELF not using a third party; it's just that it takes time.

Patience, they say, is a virtue ....

Thank you all again.

www.aquamarinayachts.com

kitchengarden · #21 (**permalink**) 10-13-2003, 11:22 AM

Wow! This stuff is really an eye opener. I am relatively new to web stuff and have, apparently, made some blunders I hope I can recover from. My web host offers a search engine placement service with monthy resubmits which I thought was great. Now I realize it may be why I haven't shown up very well in rankings. Meanwhile, I have taken some advice and redesigned my site for spiders to find better.
I would appreciate any feedback on the site I can get: http://www.kitchengardenfoods.com

I have worked hard to get link-backs, but it is easier said than done. I am now about to send out a second round of emails to sites to ask--even beg--for a link placement. I am almost sure that many sites have filtered my email thinking it is SPAM, rather than legitimate business email. It is more than frustrating. I have never understood what the majority of people you email with questions never acknowledge if they even recieve the email--a simple SOD Off would do. At least you would know they got the text and don't care to deal with you.