Old Fashioned Advertising

[twopooches]

What happened to old fashioned advertising? (Newspapers, local traders, magazines, radio, cable, yellow pages, flyers etc.)

All people seemed concerned with is search engine rank and reciprocal links. Although I cannot deny the importance & value of each, I cannot seem to get it through my clients heads that they need to ADVERTISE...

My small business clients feel I am responsible because they do not have 1000's of customers. Do they not realize the competition is global? I can only present their site from a developers take. I cannot force them to advertise.

The big guys will always be on top because they ADVERTISE !!

You can only do so much with links and search engines... I do not see much about real advertising. Sure there a lot of "marketing" articles and tips, however they usually lead to some sort of MLM.

I would appreciate suggestions or just general comments on this...

[dkenne]

I think most people are interested in "online" marketing because it tends to be the cheapest way to go. Email (spamming) is free, web sites can be designed and uploaded to a server for as little as $10/month, you can SEO your web site for free, many internet directories are free, etc.

Traditional marketing requires money, and usually a substantial amount of money (at least substantial in a small business owner's eyes).

I also think that people envision online businesses to be easy to run. They think they can upload a nice web site and their "online store" will start pulling down "Amazon.com" profits (which, by the way, I believe Amazon didn't actually post a profit until 2002). Add a real-time merchant credit card processing service and all you have to do is spend the surplus of money coming in.

I could rant all day, but I'll stop so others can express their thoughts.

Deric

[twopooches]

I agree with all of your points dkenne.

My concerns are that trends are changing and past internet marketing has been used and abused.

The internet is an ideal platform for the small business owner. I try to help clients with affordable solutions for development. I feel the small business has an edge with the low overhead of an online business. I do not feel over priced marketing services are worth the expense, nor are they as effective as they claim.

The cost for paid inclusion can be very expensive if you have a competitive product or service. Does the paid inclusion even work anymore. Is it heading towards the same demise as banner ads (ignored).

How many of us see a URL offline and check it out if it is of interest? Personally I like seeing offline ads for things I may be interested in. I see more and more inexpensive ads for online businesses offline.

I to could go on and on... I do appreciate the discussion. Sometimes it helps create ideas that may work.

Thanks

[DrTandem1]

I have made this same rant on other topics. I also lik to use Amazon.com as an example. Nobody found them via a search engine. They were heavily advertised on radio in the beginning. Now, it's hard to do a search for any merchandise without an Amazon.com link in the results.

Yes, search engnes can be inexpensive, if you dont count the time spent optimizing a site as well as trading links. Yet, being #1 in your chosen
keyword(s) will not make your site a winner. This can be proven with PPC programs.

With PPC, you can quickly be #1 in most major search engines. See whether it makes much difference in your sales or not. Traffic statistics for PPC are not reliable as your competition will have a nasty habit of clicking away at your account.

Traditional advertising is still a better deal. It's more reliable and you can target your audience.

[alienzhavelanded]

Odd that the original post was about other (offline) advertising and then it shifted to online advertising.

I utilize many things offline, such as mailings, brochures, networking, posting my business card in public places, & newspaper ads. Many clients and/or people new to online busness think "If you build it, they will come."

Most times I tell mine "If you build it, doesnt mean they'll come." LOL The company with the website needs to do all they can to market themselves AND the site to the public OFFLINE as well as online. If you operate strictly on the web, you're limiting yourself.

Happy coding,
The Martian

[twopooches]

get our clients to understand that advertising offline is crucial.

.. and good quality online advertising is important.

I am so sick of the rip offs and so called guaranteed "Targeted Hits"

[nefitco]

With so little of the potential market actually online and shopping for goods and services (7-8% of a $2 trillion plus US market) the internet is a poor choice to spend 100% of your advertising dollars. There are niche magazine advertising opportunities that can "push" customers to your business and site while internet customers are "pulled" into your site from organic and PPC listings. And let's not forget about the good, old fashion press release. It's free and still very effective if well written and directed to the right recipients.

If I had a client who wanted dramatic results with an internet only strategy(?) I would show them a pie chart indicating the less than 10% of the market their advertising dollars were targeting with an internet only expense.

[johnirv]

Direct mail, when done correctly can be a highly effective way to drive traffic to your site. Consider all the mail generated by ISPs to get new customers!

Once you get someone to your site you can establish a relationship for future communication via much less expensive email.

In order of importance consider:
The List - who are you mailing to and why

The Offer - What "hook" can you use to get the mail read and a response generated

The Mail Piece - How critical is full color, graphic images etc. What type of piece will work effectively - postcards, flyers or personalized letters

John Irving
Sales & Marketing Executive
Meter-Made Marketing, Inc.
954.717.4340 extension 15
877.638.3762 toll free
954.717.4331 fax
john@metermademarketing.com

[twopooches]

Pie Chart - An Excellent Idea... visual visual visual...

I think this will present the facts in an easier to understand manner.

[kneelsit]

Well I am going to put the "cat among the pigeons" so to speak. As a small family business dealing in hard goods I have not used any other form of advertising since I came on the net in 97 and my sales just keep increasing.

My costs are extremely low as noted above. Tried PPC with Overture for about 6 months but found it not worth the dollars spent. Looked at Googe's ads, did my sums and found I would be throwing my money away.

Sales over the net are now 900% greater than pre-1997 when I spent heavily on magazine ads. No-o way would I consider going back to the "bad old days". Admitted I am always in the Top ten - often #1 or #2 - so for me the Internet is king.

When asked how I can sell "just on the net" I simply say well it helps to be #2 among 5+ million results
for my key phrase ( computer chair )

[mrcoburn]

I worked in advertising, principally commercial broadcasting, for 28 years.

In 1972 or so a clever little pamphlet called, "The Day Radio Died," was published by a record company. The pamphlet asked record promoters to describe their jobs if there were no radio. What would have been the fallout if radio were suddenly not there anymore for the people whose lives depended on it?

So, the question today might be, "What if there was no internet?"

I'll be honest; my newspaper advertising never netted me a single response when I started my business four years ago. The Yellow Pages were extinct by then. Radio and TV costs were prohibitive, even cable was no longer financially accessible.

I get about five new customers a week via the internet. That's just right. If there were no internet I might be able to limp along forever on reputation but I'd never be able to afford health insurance.

When FM radio began to split the advertising pie in the 70's it was said there weren't enough dollars to support the new media. The same was said for cable TV and the internet!

Americans particularly are extremely innovative. With the advent of the PC, If there were no internet, we would have skipped directly to 'all data transfer by satellite' from day one and you'd be paying for uploads and downloads by the megabyte.

With a free, non-government controlled internet those innovative souls the world over have created lives for themselves that would not otherwise be possible.

The Information Age started some years before the internet. I figured a network of digital FM repeaters across the globe to be the big carrier of that information and now it's looking like that's how it may end up.

Irrespective, if the internet had not been there it was going to be invented. It could have gone so many other ways though. Everybody count your blessings.

[twopooches]

No one has said the Internet was not an excellent way to present a product or service. I have always promoted the 24/7 access perk, along with the opportunities for a small business owner to have a successful business.

I have a client that that is #1 in all search engine and directory listings. No special internet advertising, just an exclusive market. Another client is ranked between 1 and 3 on average. They have also found a product that is unique.

I strongly recommend the Internet for all of it's opportunities. I just feel that if your competing with a market of millions of competitors you should integrate several means of advertising, all according to your intended target audience.

I have also worked in advertising and know the more people that know your name the better your odds are.
Branding your business is top priority.

I do not want to do my clients marketing... I do not have time... I do want them to understand that they need to see beyond search engines and ppc campaigns. (I of course never recommend bulk emailing)

Many of us in this forum are designers and as we all know it is very competitive. Luckily most people look for our services on the internet. So this is where we market more heavily.

The average retail businesses are not so lucky.

My clients that market and sell, both online and offline are much more satisfied with their small business.

[Robban]

Finally somehting I can respond to with confidence. Most answers to most posts here should start with "Well it depends"... So often I see all these definitive answers to peoples questions and problems. Nothing is ever just one way. To advertise or not. that's the question: It depends on your business. For instance. A restaurant should not in my opinion advertise. (and I am an advertising pro) Instead they should put their money into the best food, best ambience, at the best price and rely on repeat business and word of mouth for new business...unless they are a chain that can leverage huge ad costs or if they are a high-way diner, some sort of sign would make sense. So it all depnds on your business. A site for a resturant should of course not advertise either. Only getting into the right regional listings. So it depends where you best spend your money and what business you are in.

"Early to bed, early to rise. Work like hell and advertise."

- Ted Turner

Some should, others should not. The key is to do whatever you do CREATIVELY because that is what is SEEN. Not the media space. For a lifelong collection of advertising wisdom visit: http://www.fleege.com/NewFiles/adv.d...hilosophy.html

[DrTandem1]

Greg (kneelsit),

Your anecdotal evidence on internet sales/advertising is a bit biased, since you are selling a product (computer chair) that is focused on those who spend a lot of time in front of their computer. To be realistic, I think that we are talking more about sales of products that are not directly or closely related to the use of a computer.

It would be expected that your sales of computer chairs would increase proportionately to the growth of computer sales and internet usage since 1997. Now, if you were to be selling easy chairs (recliners, etc.), you would probably do better with traditional advertising.

You would probably do even better, if you teamed with a computer store or manufacturer. Anyway, you have found a niche that works and that's great!

[kneelsit]

Dr T,
True, you have made a valid point and I am most fortunate in having a product that everyone uses. The great thing is that I am getting 2nd 3rd and 4th sales from larger offices where my chair has been purchased.
Not looking for any partnerships as the steady pace just suits me in semi-retirement and I would not have the time to go sailing if things got too hectic. :)

[ppayne]

Well, I am a fan of the "genius of the and" not the "tyranny of the or" to quote that one business book. I do both -- paying attention to my Google rankings, paying for Overture keywords moderately, and also advertising. We advertise in many places, large and small, but because our products are Japanese and "off the wall" (sometimes bizarre, like the Hello Kitty er, personal massagers), we try to go where people are young, professional, used to being on the web and buying online, and open minded. Some websites we've advertised on have been very good for us, others not so good. The Onion has been excellent -- the ads cost an arm and a leg, but we get a great "glow" from being associated with this most excellent website (www.theonion.com if you don't know it).

[soundrediscovery]

As a relatively new operator i would say "there is no such thing as a free lunch"

why do i say this?

i have been developing what started out as a hobby into a more serious small business operation (i won't bore you with details - look at my site).

my conclusions (for what they are worth) are that the internet is fantastic for "free" advertising and placement, but you have to work at it. My approach is that i will obtain an internet presence and then "advertise" through traditional methods. Why? because i have restricted my budget to choosing how to reinvest any income generated. For me advertising is something to be considered once i have purchased all the materials i need to meet any new orders that may be generated from that investment in advertising.
as it stands i retain my "proper" job as i can deal with orders received via word of mouth or received from enquiries through my site.

Because i didn't want to throw money at advertising the old fashioned way initially, i chose to create the web site first. not everybody would do it that way, and it would depend on whether a business is established or a start up.

my point? my experience bears out many of the comments previously made in this topic that, "it depends". i have received orders via the web without particular promotion, my next step is to assess response from an advert in my local newspaper.

if you look at my site you will see that it is not something that everybody will want, so a web presence alone is not enough (if my prime motivation was money making - which it isn't).

in less than a year i have moved from a hobby (dealing with my requirements) into a small operation which is on the verge of thriving! the key to what happens next is down to traditional advertising methods.

My final remark is that i have no paid listing in any search engines or directories, this is the bit that requires regular work to retain or obtain the presence. since my initial "playing whereby i used international search engines, i have subsequently concentrated on UK directories etc (since Nov 03 to date). this may not be the quickest way to proceed but has been successful enough for me!

i hope this doesn't sound smug, i can't take credit for working it out myself, i have listened to advice and have used that which has suited me. i hope this post serves as an endorsement of comments made by other (more experienced) contributors.

Ian

[John Glube]

Offline advertising has its value. I recently reviewed a promotion involving the use of direct mail post cards to drive traffic to a web site.

However, I do take issue with the suggestion put forward by Deric that:

"Email (spamming) is free"

I and many other online marketers do not equate email marketing with "spamming" despite the stance taken by the DMA on the whole issue.

Of course, if you equate email marketing, even when you have prior consent with spamming then ...

But, the reality is you can build an extremely succesful online business through the proper use of email marketing. What do I mean by proper?

Simple, obtain prior consent through accepted and professional marketing methods. Build a relationship. Convert prospects into customers.

Interested in learning how to spam? Consider registering at next year's email marketing conference to be held in sunny Nigeria. For the details on last year's conference, you will want to use this. You will find the reference to the conference in the last paragraph of the article.

Wishing you all the best.

Kind regards,

John Glube
Toronto, Canada

[Mukul]

I am from India. I say this specifically here because the Internet industry is relatively new in India and the consumption via internet is too low.

I give the reference to two indian dot coms which have made their mark

1. naukri.com --> a job portal
2. shaadi.com --> a marriage/dating portal

They are doing very well here and as I see they are doing a lot of TV, BillBoards, Magazine advertising. Ofcouse, they must be doing that becuase of sensible business decisions. But, my point is that great internet businesses can be build offline advertising too. It just requires a great budget.

[twopooches]

We need to take our leads from the big guys... Ever notice their advertising trends?
What I have noticed is new companies will bombard us with various multimedia ads and then we see a significant decrease. Are they bombarding us only when hits slack off? Probably not. We need to figure out when our target audiences are more susceptible to our ads. That is when we need to really promote using the media.
Now we need some creative low cost solutions...
Cable TV ads (local) usually cost about the same as a decent newspaper ad.
How well does the "Yellow Pages" work. Service related businesses ought to do well since they now combine paper book ads with online listings. The cost depends on your city.

Any ideas for low cost advertising?

[lulujones]

finding the right mix is the business question of all centuries. it can drive you mad if you let it (i'm nearly there). our business is strictly computer related; you must have a computer to use our product and our store is only online AND our product can only be downloaded. however, advertising online isn't our only option. in fact, i know we've got to advertise via other platforms to just get our stuff 'out there.' that said, traditional advertising costs a lot so the next big question is: what are we gonna do??? we're working on that. in the meantime, our customer base is growing at a certain rate and will continue to and that could be fine for other developers but we really want more of an exponential growth. we're new (1.5 yrs old) and still figuring this all out. i feel we have to do test markets and other tests, and i'm a strong believer in testing for our own results but i really wish there were shortcuts!

sorry this post may not be that helpful; i guess i had to get that out of my system or something :)