Email Marketing

[rctoyhouse]

I need opinions of you experts....

I currently sell on ebay, and ebay has a feature where we can download information on each of our customer from the past 3 months.

I have a file of all their names and email addresses. These are individuals that have bought from us and have left a positive feedback. (negative feedback will be deleted).

If I follow the CAN-SPAM Guideline and carefully construct an email marketing campaign that will follow the rules (have opt-out option, leave physical address/number, describe product), do you think this will be legitimate?

I am thinking of sending an email to introduce our new website, and to give a discount to our loyal customers, and to build customer relationship.

I have a list of about 3000 previous customers. They all have bought from us in the past, and were satisfied with the product.

Maybe another option is to send them an email if they would want to opt-in to our website. We might not get all 3000, but we have a chance to legally obtain a few hundred solid members.

[bhopkins]

I'm not an expert, but I don't think you can do either legally. Of course since these are previous customers and you are offering a discount, you may not get any spam complaints by only sending them one email.



Bruce

[fivetone]

Have they signed up for your eBay newsletter?

[pdstein]

I don't consider myself a CAN-SPAM Act expert, but you can go to the FTC's CAN-SPAM web page and read the requirements to be compliant:

http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/buspubs/canspam.htm

Here's a rundown of the law's main provisions:

• It bans false or misleading header information.
• It prohibits deceptive subject lines.
• It requires that your email give recipients an opt-out method. You must provide a return email address or another Internet-based response mechanism that allows a recipient to ask you not to send future email messages to that email address, and you must honor the requests.
• It requires that commercial email be identified as an advertisement and include the sender's valid physical postal address.

The Act doesn't say anything about where you get the list of email addresses you send to. I don't see how emailing past customers could possibly violate this Act if you follow all the other requirements.

[fivetone]

It's probably can spam compliant, but I still wouldn't do it. We sell on eBay too. We don't add our eBay customer's email addresses to our website mailing list. We probably should but that's our policy. The way I see it is if they didn't subscribe to your eBay newsletter, why do you think they'd want your website newsletter?

[cartoonsmart]

I say do one mailing, but only send out an email asking if people would like to join your mailing list. If they don't sign up, don't email them again.

[visio]

I think that Rctoyhouse wants to know if it is legal, and not a lot of nonsense about ethics.
It is legal as long as you follow the rules, phisical address, remove option, not misleading, etc.

My advice, make a page with special discount for loyal customers, put also a very visible autoresponder form, perhaps with the incentive to grab some free stuff, and then send the email, dont forget the remove option.

Good luck.

[blitzen]

Don't do it.

I get turned off by merchants trying to push more on me after I buy from them. If I get marketing stuff from them after I make a purchase, I wonder if they'll be selling my info to other marketing companies or do other things with my information. It sends a red flag.

I prefer to walk into a store, purchase, and leave never to hear from the store again unless I approach them.
Internet merchants should respect that.

[fivetone]

a lot of nonsense about ethics

I would never give my email nor want to do business with anybody who thinks ethics is nonsense.

[visio]

Anti-Spam Society ISP


Others, have had problems with spammed emails and really don't like them. That's okay. I can value that. There are, on the other hand, a few out there that get really worked up over it. I'm talking about being worked up to the point of fixation. An editor acquaintance of mine, Bobbette Madonna, editor of Logon, has recommended that all of these obsessive people be rounded up and placed on one ISP where they can accordingly be left alone to pester each other. I'd like to call this new ISP the "Anti-Spam Society ISP or the A.S.S. ISP for short.

Now, the only people allowed on the new A.S.S. ISP would be those who continually cause just as much trouble, if not more, with their anti-spam agenda than real spammers do. I mean after all, it's pretty quick to fix spam, you just hit delete. It's awfully hard to fix being shut down by false spam accusations. (I've heard some terrible stories.)

The new A.S.S. ISP would have the following 5 email options to make these spam hating obssesives happy.

1. Ultimate Email Blocking Power. Block individual addresses, domains, or any address with an "@" symbol in it.

2. Email Retriever System. With this system, no one sends email at all. When a someone writes an email, they must then contact who the email is intended for either in person, by postal mail, or by telephone, to tell them about the email. At that time, the intended recipient can then choose whether or not to activate their retriever system and download the designated email. This way, nothing is sent by mistake.

3. Guess E-mail. This operates like the Retriever System, only no one is allowed to contact other users at all concerning email. In fact, mere mention of the word "e-mail" is against regulations and is punishable by loss of the A.S.S. ISP services -- or worse. Instead, users simply 'guess' as to which people have written them email and when it is there for them. Then, they use the Retriever System to ask for it. However, asking for email from persons who have not previously asked the user to ask for email from them is a violation of the regulations and is punishable by loss of the A.S.S. ISP services -- or worse.

4. Email Browser Window

Using this option, a person can enter keywords and 'search' for existing emails on topics they wish to receive. The system works by sending a 'probe' to determine if other emails are available to be read. If there are emails fitting the search criteria, they are found and downloaded. However, if an email NOT fitting the search criteria is found, then the writer of the non-conforming email will be punished by the loss of the A.S.S.ISP services -- or worse.

5. Internet Service with Absolutely No Email at All.

These email safeguards are intended to make all A.S.S. ISP, spam hating obsessives, happy. These systems eliminate the possibility of being sent unsolicited email and should completely remove the need for these spam hating obsessives to turn others in. As it stands today, there are already 5147 paying members of the A.S.S. ISP. At this time, however, there are 5112 members that have been permanently banned due to spamming charges, 25 members that have been clubbed due to being served dual spam charges, 8 members waiting for deportation to the moon, and 2 members appealing their executions. I think it's clear we have a problem on the Internet.

No, it's not spamming, it's a lack of common respect and decency. Blasting repeated ads to someone who has clearly shown no interest in such is not respectful. On the other hand, shutting down someone's Internet access on the grounds of one email is certainly not decent.

There is no set of 'official rules' regarding our Internet. The Internet belongs to no one and yet is everyone's together. How it will come to function in the future will be based on how each of us uses it today. Ultimately, there will be no ruling legislation, for no government controls it. It will be up to individual ISPs to decide how best to serve their customers. Will increased spamming force them into charging on a per email basis? Will increased law suits force monthly service costs to rise? Will abuse from both directions ruin the freedom of contact we all now enjoy? One simple action can completely dissolve this entire argument. SHOW COMMON RESPECT AND DECENCY TO ALL. If we all did that, there would be nothing else to discuss on the matter.



About the Author Joe Bingham has written many articles, both informational and humorous, with the intent of helping others gain a better understanding of Internet marketing concepts. His 'tell it like it is' approach has many offering the NetPlay Marketer as one of their most favorite ezines. See for yourself at: http://www.netplaynewsletters.com

[Tom O'Leary]

You might find my blog post helpful.

Bulk Email vs. Spam

Bottom line: Your recipient ultimately determines what is spam and what isn't. And it's your reputation that is ultimately at stake.

The most effective email marketing establishes long term relationships over time. I suggest that you include an opt-in link in your autoresponse messages which are sent when somebody purchases your products and also using a subscription form on your eBay page where users can opt-in to your newsletter.

All the best

Tom

[DesignMonk]

Previous clients who have provided their information to purchase are fair game. As long as you follow the CAN-SPAM Act guides as you mentioned in your post, you are perfectly in your rights to send them an email promotion on products you have sold them in the past. If they have purchased in the past, then they established their interest in what you have to offer. If they opt-out from the initial email, then you have to respect their request per the CAN-SPAM Act. But if they don't they are essentially opting in to your emails.

I would suggest that on future purchasers, you ask them to opt-in to your emails on purchase.

[Orion]

Missing one BIG point..
You'll may be violating your sellers agreement with EBay by mailing them directly..

If you want to contact them you're supposed to do that through ebay.

They have the function there and you can invite them via ebay to register for your newsletter (which I would assume is canspam compliant) and you'll be totally safe..

To protect your site I highly recommend using a 3rd party to power your mail campaigns, aweber.com is one I've used with multiple clients, never had a problem, easy to use and very very reasonable, price wise.

[DesignMonk]

Originally Posted by Orion

Missing one BIG point..
You'll may be violating your sellers agreement with EBay by mailing them directly..

If you want to contact them you're supposed to do that through ebay.

They have the function there and you can invite them via ebay to register for your newsletter (which I would assume is canspam compliant) and you'll be totally safe..

Very good point. I personally was not aware of that.

[Tom O'Leary]

Originally Posted by Orion

Missing one BIG point..
You'll may be violating your sellers agreement with EBay by mailing them directly..

If you want to contact them you're supposed to do that through ebay.

Better check into that alright. Nice one Orion.

All the best

Tom

[carju1]

Ebay does have rules about this and allow you to use their inbulit systems for it. However they have a number of rules about using thses systems which you'll need to check out.

Using Selling Manager and Selling Manager Pro you can email your buyers individually or in bulk from the Sold View, Archived View, and the sales record for a listing. You can email as many as 200 buyers at one time from the Sold View.

If you are just a normal ebay seller then basically they don't want you to email 'past' buyers. Ebay rules about this say .... Unsolicited Commercial Email is not permitted on eBay and the following are all banned by ebay:

1.Unsolicited email offers to potential buyers for items that are the same or similar to items a member is bidding on or has bid on in the past
2.Email sent to a member from a mailing list without the member’s explicit permission
3.Direct or stand-alone invitations to join a mailing list
4.Email sent using the "Contact eBay Member" link on the eBay Web site to send unsolicited commercial offers

If you do any of the above then it may result in a range of actions, including, Listing cancellation or Account suspension.

So my advice don't do it. If ebay find out then regardless of the fact that it is perfectly legal its against ebay rules and it sounds like you sell to much to risk it.

Julian

[chrisJumbo]

It isn't just about being able to delete the spam or not. It is about the time it wastes those who don't want it. At least direct snail mailers have to pay something to annoy you. Spammers can do it virtually for free. We get 100 - 500 a day of spam emails. Yeah, it gets old.

If your product is so good and you know people will want it, why don't you go about it the right way. Instead of taking short cuts that, one, are probably considered spam and two probably break the TOS of EBay, build the site, SEO/SEM, and watch the traffic that wants your product come. For a potentially faster response use PPC.

Also, since EBay has been successful for you, why are you breaking away from that model?

[jackit_chick]

IF Ebay is alright with this, I'd send an e-mail only to customers that have bought maybe 3 or more items from you. Also tell them that they will not recieve another e-mail like this and that you are just advertising your new site where they can recieve discounts. If they want to recieve more e-mails, I'm sure they'll let you know.

If I got an e-mail from someone I'd purchased from 3 or more times offering me a discount, I'd be grateful. If I'd only purchased from you once though, and it was 2 years ago, I would probably be irritated.

Anyway you do it, you're going to irritate someone! Because we do get hundreds a day, so do you really think if they stumbled across your site a month later, they would even remember an annoying spam message they glanced through and deleted? Doubtful. I say do it, but only to people who have purchased 3 or more items.

[DesignMonk]

Originally Posted by carju1

So my advice don't do it. If ebay find out then regardless of the fact that it is perfectly legal its against ebay rules and it sounds like you sell to much to risk it.
Julian

For the original poster, I say go with what Julian says. I had read Julian's stuff for several years now and have had the pleasure of moderating next to him in the past. If eBay frowns on it and you don't want issues with eBay, then by all means, don't do it. Regardless of what the CAN-SPAM Act says.

That is my personal thought for the original poster. Now if the rest of you feel like it, please read on.

The thing I find so amusing about this particular forum is that everybody seems compelled to give their personal, emotional opinion on spam and not answer the original question as to whether or not the idea is legal. There are over 160 people in my 9-5 company and I ran a random poll on how people feel about spam. For the 40+ people I have talked to, 90% of those say that spam is no longer an inconvenience. They find it easier to just put their finger on the delete button and spend 3 seconds running down their inbox and clearing out anything they consider crap-mail. So while I sympathize with those that still find spam annoying, it is still a personal opinion and not truly relevant to the original question.

Now you may be saying, "But Hey, what about freedom of speech and letting me put in my two cents..." I am not saying don't post. By all means do. I love conversation and debate just as much as anyone else. But consider this. You hate going through your inbox each day and deleting out spam (we know this because you just told us); but this poor guy is forced to read through each and every post looking for the answer to his question. Not only that, he gets an email every time someone posts to let him know that you wrote about your personal dislike of email being sent to you by a company you may or may not have bought a product from three years ago. Now I would not want to read about how you personally feel about spam and whether you think it is or isn't annoying to other people when it doesn't answer my question; is it legal.

So while you warm up your keyboards, getting ready to flame me for my own personal opinion, keep in mind that it takes less time to delete an email than it does to answer the phone, shred another credit card application, or read another forum post that doesn't give you a legitimate answer to a question YOU want answered.

Julian, if you feel like deleting this post, go ahead. I had plenty of fun just righting it.

[fivetone]

The OP did not ask if this is legal, he asked if it's legitimate. Read closely:

If I follow the CAN-SPAM Guideline and carefully construct an email marketing campaign that will follow the rules (have opt-out option, leave physical address/number, describe product), do you think this will be legitimate?

[fivetone]

The question is not whether it's legal or follows the can spam rules, he clearly states that he plans to follow the can spam rules. The question is whether or not it's legitimate to add email addresses of previous customers to his website mailing list, an ethical question in my opinion. Since they didn't opt in, I say no. Others say it's OK. Others say it may violate eBay terms. This is a good discussion.

[Tom O'Leary]

Hey guys and gals. Mark Brownlow published an excellent article on the confusion surrounding spam, CAN-Spam and other anti-spam legislation today. I recommend it as a must read for everyone.

Marketing Email? Spam? It's Your Choice

All the best

Tom

[ronparrs]

Great article Tom!

I've been using benchmark emails service since Dec. 2006. They've been really helpful helping us to keep our lists (over 5,000 addresses) clean & up to date (priced right too).

I would say go for it. They are past/current customers. Some will opt out. Many won't read it. Good results are 15% to 20% open mail (better than snail mail campaigns). As long as your content is relevent to your customers, you may garner some additional sales.

[rctoyhouse]

Thanks for all the responses!

There are many opinions about this subject matter. I want to make sure I'm following all the rules, although I know there may be gray lines, and personal choices.

Ideally it would be great to have an existing opt-in list. However, we did not provide that option to our ebay buyers, so our list is non existant.

I do think we can provide valuable discount/content to our previous customers. The price that they will pay on the website will actually be cheaper than if they would to purchase from us again on ebay.

It would be a good reward system for our loyal customers, and to let them know that we have a different retail channel that they can purchase from as well. We will have articles and content that will be beneficial to our customers.

I understand in the corporate world, if you are to swtich companies or move location, you would send a postcard to all your contacts, previous customers, etc.

That is what I was thinking. But I will also consult with our ebay rep to make sure that would be O.K with him.

I think that's the best way to solve this problem.

[OneMoreBite]

I can't see anything wrong with alerting previous purchasers to a new website, especially if you have a special offer for them, and at that point you can offer an incentive to join a regular mailing list.

I didn't look up Ebay practices, but if they provide all the contact info, they couldn't realistically expect no one will use that? Besides, how on earth are we to find out about goods and services that would interest us if no one is allowed to send without our prior permission?

That's my take on it anyway. I would never know you had a new site, if you didn't let me know, and if I bought from you in the past, then obviously I'd be interested in what you offer, unless it's totally unrelated to the original purchase.

Kathryn

[TrafficWave]

There appears to be a grey area for emailing previous buyers. Fair enough.

Hopefully, your ebay listings include links to "out other auctions" or links to your site for more information, products, etc....

I recommend using an AutoResponder service and adding a subscription form to your web site so that you can begin capturing valid opt-in leads.

Reaching back in to previous ebay customer lists may or may not get you in to some hot water.
Offering visitors and current customers the opportunity to join your list by way of a subscription form on your web site should be all clear.