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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 05-24-2006, 11:25 AM
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Default Yahoo Search Marketing's Unknown Distribution Partners

For anyone engaged in pay-per-click (PPC) advertising, click fraud is a big concern. Intentional click fraud is when a click occurs on your ad by a person, or an automated script or computer program simulating a person, for the purpose of generating an improper click charge. The person or company committing the fraud is doing so for the purpose of costing you money and has no intention of making a purchase.

There's another type of activity going on, that, while not click fraud in the traditional sense of the definition provided above, still hovers at the edge of legitimacy. There are hundreds, if not thousands, of sites showing YSM ads and, through a partnership arrangement with YSM, getting paid when your ad is clicked. If you think that's not a problem, read on.

Most PPC marketers know their PPC ad in YSM is automatically shown on Yahoo's distribution partner sites. Here's the 'official' list: http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/srch/srch_affnw.php. That doesn’t look so bad, does it?

But what about all the sites NOT on the list? Sites showing your ads that, when clicked, put money in the partner site's pocket, in Yahoo's pocket, and take it out of your pocket, all the while delivering a click that is unlikely to convert. What happens when these sites get crawled by search engine spiders and other robots?

I don't want to give these guys a link, but I'm sure you'll figure out the url: www[dot]recipes[dot]com

Upon arriving at the site, you might reasonably assume it's a directory or index of sites related to recipes and cooking. It claims to present 'comprehensive search friendly indexes'. Let's take a closer look...

A click on the 'Healthy Recipes' link in the top navigation bar returns a listing of links. At the top of the page in tiny text it reads: 'Sponsored Results: Healthy Recipes'. There's a 'more' link in the lower right. In the URL we see the key phrase 'healthy recipes' has been passed in.

Now do this: in another browser window, go to www[dot]overture[dot]com (YSM’s site). In the search box in the upper right, type in the phrase 'healthy recipes'. Now go back and forth between recipes[dot]com and the Overture search results. Notice anything?

All recipes[dot]com is doing is re-serving YSM paid listings. When a user arrives at recipes[dot]com and clicks on a link, recipes[dot]com gets a fee, YSM charges you the cost for the click, and you end up with a click that is less likely to convert to a sale or lead.

Let’s dig in a bit more. Here's the code for the destination of the first link:
redirect.php?term=healthy+recipes&host=www.rachael raymag.com&jump=http%3A%2F%2Fwww60.overture.com%2F d%2Fsr%2F%3Fxargs%3D15KPjg18BStpXyl%255FruNLbXU6HT kQZdwcH2o4JwVsw6WIAMrSkpBv4sMf7Yz%255FVITPMisFeRiK eL9KIVKfXl2KPKHUrMHgrdDOCLpfGnosJSdfrwG4IfkrEqsZmQ 6pNNSBwHZGe3cZq%252Dnu3ZItCCShcsge1L%255Fy2BpaQ%25 5FnYvujPIcFbiqmgcrohyBN88J66Mpl5%255FOLpoISLpdftCe kzDDfehBwqp9k%252DSiTSljLSKg4h4a%255FP60FBQM%252De 3AfY0MubH1nImRYeHrxNRfHzeU8fZj4RvjvXrpyotqICOPieNp oHUFS9n6Zjio%255Fgtc2riFgfDfP4duvzKnSr3QZXjhPU94dU N4WrW0MQeBcSgqvBNiUYWyU%255FmVpS6%255FAK%252DCEykn fFUD%252DZS5ONBG7lmRmWMzXjLBF%255FpLjBsKJKNi0Aygvr a2uFsxk50HzOGWIdFV6oyCuHPy%26yargs%3Dwww.rachaelra ymag.com

From this code we can see this link sends the clicker through Overture.

If you still have your Overture (YSM) window open with the 'healthy recipes' results still up, roll over the same link to see where it goes:
www23.overture.com/d/sr/?xargs=15KPjg189StpXyl%5FruNLbXU6HTkQZdwcH2o4JwVsw 6WIAMrSkpBv4sMf7Yz%5FVITPMisFeRiKeL9KIVKfXl2KPKHUr MHgrdDOCLpfGnosJSdfrwG4IfkrEqsZmQ6pNNSBwHZGe3cZq%2 Dnu3ZItCCShcsge1L%5Fy2BpaQ%5FnYvujPIcFbiqmgcrohyBN 88J66Mpl5%5FOLpoISLpdftCekzDDfehBwqp9k%2DSiTSljLSK g4h4a%5FP60FBQM%2De3AfY0MubH1nImRYeHrxNQobTaQ9fZi4 RblyH%5Fuu%5FtjICOPieNpoHQFS9n6Zjmpigxbr7iFgfLNctF ivDisOMWrHmerbEFyekx5RP7kbgqKbHdi7%5F%2DlY2VkQenx9 yK%2DHraYBCI5ZFoXqN60LoYLgXi7sUQQfhX8UNTauTkKLxVfk gyrvhW2zlswg%2DkhqPreDeFz&yargs=www.rachaelraymag. com

Except for the www23 prefix and the xargs variable (which is used to track the click), the link is the same. That means when someone clicks on the link at recipes[dot]com, rachaelraymag[dot]com gets charged.

Other considerations:
1. On the recipes[dot]com site, replace 'healthy+recipes' in the query string with any other search term, like 'tennis+rackets'. Now the links show sites for tennis rackets. Or from the homes page, do a search for any term. I guess recipes[dot]com isn't just a recipes site....

2. recipes[dot]com doesn't have a robots.txt file. It isn't providing any special instructions to spiders or bots crawling their site, such as banning them from crawling the links.

3. The links don't have a rel=nofollow. Search engine spiders will follow the links from recipes[dot]com through to Overture (YSM).

4. When recipes[dot]com gets crawled and search engine spiders or other bots follow the outbound links, Unless YSM is doing something on their end, the advertiser is getting charged.

Now go to Google and search for 'healthy recipes'. Scan the results around position five. recipes[dot]com is running AdWords ads to drive users to its site, where they will then click on YSM ads and make recipes[dot]com (and YSM) money.

In the lower right of the recipes[dot]com site is a link to the company that runs the site (digimedia). Clicking on that link takes you to the company page. Once there, click on the 'Portfolio' link. Now feel a sinking feeling in the pit of your stomach if you use YSM as you see all the other sites this company runs that are doing the exact same thing as recipes[dot]com.

It gets worse. Go to www[dot]cheapcomforters[dot]com. Check out the links on the home page. Now go back to the Overture search and search for 'cheap comforters' Compare the results with the cheapcomforters site. Click on any of the links on cheapcomforters site and compare the resulting links with Overture search results for those terms.

Still feeling good about the money you pay to YSM? Maybe you should go to onlinecareerdirectory[dot]com. EVERY link on this page goes to a site the does nothing but list YSM paid ads. Here's another: onlineemploymentguide[dot]com. Explore here and you will find that the links either go directly to sites that show YSM paid listings or to sites that have other links that eventually put the user on a site that shows YSM paid listings.

In the strictest sense, is this click fraud? Hair-splitters out there will probably say no. But these sites are misrepresenting YSM paid search ads as directory and index listings. They aren't masking them from search engines. They are advertising through other PPC engines (and probably other ways) to get traffic.

Personally, I wouldn't want my paid ads to be shown on sites like these. Spider and bot clicks notwithstanding, I know from personal experience that clicks from such sites convert at a much lower rate than clicks from ads show as a result of an active search.

I ran PPC campaign for a client where just one of the sites I mentioned above was sending in excess of $30 worth of clicks a day, and those clicks converted at 1/20th the rate of clicks coming from the actual Yahoo search. When I addressed my concerns to YSM, sent server logs, and requested a refund (by that time in excess of $1,000), it was denied. When I asked them to stop serving ads to the site (and some others I had identified), they refused. I turned off the campaign in YSM. All told, for that campaign, I was paying almost $50 a day for clicks from sites like these.

I wonder why YSM doesn't list these sites on their Distribution Partner page.....
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Old 05-24-2006, 01:06 PM
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What a great post - well put together - I'm just so pleased that I've given up on all ppc - they promise so much and deliver so little, but some firms think nothing of $30K a month in PPC - I'd be up all night!!
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Old 05-24-2006, 08:29 PM
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Nice Work!!! I wonder why other media haven't picked up on this? It's kinda strange that people and business are so paranoid about being sued by money hungry lawyers looking to capitalize on an unfortunate accident; but here we have a perfect made to sue situation, and lawyers don't seem to circling the fraudulent shark smelling blood.
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Old 05-25-2006, 08:13 AM
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ctabuk-
PPC can be very effective. PPC won't be going away, but as click costs continue to rise, it will take better and better management to make a campaign profitable.

I have run many Overture profitable campaigns. But I wonder how much MORE profitable they would have been if this sort of thing weren't going on.

I can almost always get a Google campaing to work.

The vast majority of profitable campaigns I was able to run in bottom tier providers such as Miva, Enhance, Search123, ePilot etc. where no risk or low risk lead gen. The very few ecommerce marketing campaigns I was able to take to profitability in bottom tier were all based on strong brand recognition and long tail keywords.

kjohnson-
As I mentioned in my original post, in the strictest sense this is not click fraud, so I don't think it would be legally actionable.

The only way to effect change, I think, would be for the advertisers to start walking out.

PPC providers could solve this issue themselves by allowing adverister total visibility on ALL distribution partners and letting you decide which ones you want your ad to appear on.

Most advertisers know content ads show up all over the place (and that's why most advertisers turn them off), but I don't think most advertisers know just how widely their actual PPC search ad is showing as well in sites that mimic a directory or index style and encourage multiple clicks.
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Old 05-25-2006, 08:29 AM
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Sure, but I'm there by SEO, so I get 50 hits a week for new Mortgages and it ain't cost me a penny - I firmly believe that if you create a niche market and that you are good at what you do, then do it. I used to run my own Overture/Google ppc and I'm making more money now than I ever did with PPC - If I have to advertise then 2 lines do it -Need a Right to Buy Mortgage? search CTAB Mortgage Desk anywhere. And that is not intended to 'show off' but if you do make that search, it brings up masses and masses of results, forum posts the lot, but I've been at this game a long time, I prefer modest people and I would rather see someone use your style of PPC management than many others I could name!!!
But I know exactly where you are coming from and like I said, it's a good post.
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Old 05-25-2006, 11:46 AM
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Good points ctabuck-

I'll take top 10 organic placement over PPC anytime, but you know how impatient business owners can be.

IMO, it's getting harder and harder to rank well in organic. Seems as though more and more all I'm seeing - especially in ecommerce related goods - is Walmart, Target, eBay, and Amazon and aggregate sites like Shopping.com or BizRate. And trying to get a new site ranked in Google is all but impossible.

Ultimately, I try to fit any marketing plan to the needs/desires of a customer. For a new business, I recommend PPC out the gate, with eventual tapering off as organic clicks start to kick in (supposing the site has been built using good SEO practices).
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Old 05-25-2006, 06:29 PM
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Webdango

Very good post. Good to see another investigative type entering into the marketing foray.

Here is the thing I think you miss and where you should look to take this....take away the fraud aspsect Yahoo didn't set up the sites you speak of and all of the Search Engines play turn their heads and cough at questionable tactics.

Here is what's missed - RachelRays accountants wont continue to pay for advertising if it's ROI is not up to snuff.

Since we can safely assume that RachelRay is making money in PPC... then we need to make RachelRay & her accountants smarter to Yahoo's and Googles and other SE methods.. and look to improve campaigns by weeding out undesired sites or keyword terms.

We think fraud... but it is more waste.

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You are finding the half that doesn't work ;->
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Old 05-25-2006, 06:36 PM
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I'm with WebDango. You need some revenue generated to stay in business. You use PPC to start. And you work, work, work to get those organic rankings up.

Content, Content, Content, Articles, Press Releases, Relavent links, etc. Did I mention content?

Yahoo, Google, MSN will respond as they begin to feel pinched. Afterall MSN, just added the ability to not use DMOZ descriptions. They need revenue. Take it away and they will change.
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Old 05-25-2006, 06:42 PM
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When Yahoo was first exposed for its spyware click fraud, I posted:

Quote:
"Yahoo's click-through ratio recently skyrocketed from an average 1.40% to 3.39%. Any SEO expert would tell you that you made a major positive change to your site, but we made none, and sales and applications have actually reduced lately, rather than increasing! We are actually watching as our advertising dollars go.. poof! It looks like Google is going to get Yahoo's budget until they cease doing business with spyware and false PPC companies. We spend (used to) about $3000 per month on Overture. I have just moved 95% of that to Google, and reduced my spend per click on Overture so low that it is not worth scamming. If all of us do the same, for long enough for it to appear on Yahoo's bottom line (perhaps a quarter), their shareholders will SCREAM."
We have turned off as many options in the engines, attempting to be available only in the actual Google, Y!, MSN, and other engines only, and our ROI has raised tremendously, and our spend has dropped considerably. As far as we are concerned, it is just not worth it for us to be anywhere than the home page search of the big engines... The distribution model just begs the affiliates and Adsense partners to 'tickle' their income by adding clicks on their sites.
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Old 05-25-2006, 06:57 PM
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Webdango, but it is fraud based on your research. I quote:

2. recipes[dot]com doesn't have a robots.txt file. It isn't providing any special instructions to spiders or bots crawling their site, such as banning them from crawling the links.

3. The links don't have a rel=nofollow. Search engine spiders will follow the links from recipes[dot]com through to Overture (YSM).

4. When recipes[dot]com gets crawled and search engine spiders or other bots follow the outbound links, Unless YSM is doing something on their end, the advertiser is getting charged.

Now go to Google and search for 'healthy recipes'. Scan the results around position five. recipes[dot]com is running AdWords ads to drive users to its site, where they will then click on YSM ads and make recipes[dot]com (and YSM) money.


Both Click fraud by spiders and Fraud based on using Google Adwords to lure people into a site that is nothing but PPC advertising. Yahoo Search Marketing should know the sites they allow to sell their advertising better than they are.

I'll assume that the Yahoo Search Marketing sends a pretty healthy check to Digimedia once per month. If I was sending pretty healthy checks to anyone once per month, I'd want to know what they are doing to earn the check. I'm sure something like this violates the TOS of Yahoo Search Marketing?

It's Yahoo that doesn't want to do anything about it. I've seen tons of Spammy sites clicked into from my Overture account. I will say, Google seems to be much more quality oriented (definately not perfect) as to the search partners it allows than Overture.
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Old 05-25-2006, 07:34 PM
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Default Well, I got my refund

I sent Yahoo a specific list (after spending too much time carefully picking through raw log data to find them) of such "content" partners. And they credited over $500 dollars because of it. Not nearly the size of the fraud, but most likely the size of the specific instances of fraud I was able to point out directly.

I was very specific about which ones and why. Yahoo had previously responded to a tech support request with a notice that the content netowkr meant my ads were only displayed beside matching "articles" (meaning text).

I think whether you get a credit to your account (I've never seen ANY of my clients get REFUNDS, only CREDITS from Yahoo) depends on how you ask, and whether they see indemnity to avoid or not.

Because of this, I specifically warn against the content network to ANYONE I can find.

The worst here is that there are so many specific companies that profit from making false Yahoo ad sites and stealing your click-through moneys. Research on the websites that I reported to Yahoo shows me the following companies were profiting from the myriad fake websites (level of implication indicated, with worst offendors listed at the top):

AdKnowledge.com (directly)
Drivelinemedia.com (directly)
qsrch.com (directly)
anything.com (directly)
seeq.com (directly)
revenue.net (directly)
thinktarget.com (directly)
domainworks.inc (indirectly)

Disclaimer: If I am wrong and the above are legit, OK. But I doubt it. THe above is my opinion and hypothesis based on information I gathered from client website logs and I cannot post it publically without their consent.
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Old 05-25-2006, 08:14 PM
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Default click fraud

type in jetawayhawaii on google - one of our target market sites (google allows travel companies to have a few niche market sites as long as they are sites and not doorway pages) - then look at the search results.. click thru and about 8 of 10 are these kinds of sites.. can anyone tell us what we can do about it??? i have looked up domains and most of these are run by the same two companies.. even reported it to gogole, but nothing happened.. they must have 100's of thousands -- not exaggerating -- put in travel kw's to anywhere and you will get tons of these in the top results..

grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr...
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Old 05-25-2006, 08:14 PM
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Default This has been going on forever and is everywhere.....

Companies develop sites for the sole reason of displaying Google or Yahoo! ads...period...no content and/or value at all.

My question is, how do these sites get approved to become part of the engine's network?

Here is an example I ran across just today.

This site is advertising in Google for a major KW term in my industry

drivingjobtruck{dot}net

Check the site.....nothing there but "Sponsored Results"....which are all YSM (Overture) PPC ads.
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Old 05-25-2006, 08:16 PM
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Default Yahoo is killing the golden goose

Great post. And I'm glad WPW sent it as an e-mail via Web Pro News. I've written directly to Yahoo about this problem and been kicked into touch.

I've been monitoring ppc increasingly closely. Too many of the Overture/Yahoo clicks have come from sites that appear to exist for no other reason than click fraud. At least on Google Adwords you can switch off these types of sites. Not on Yahoo.

These dubious sites all have the same characteristics. Almost all the clicks come from Eastern Europe or Asia. The clicks never convert. When my clients have organic listings on the same page as ppc listings the organic listings are neverclicked on.

What a great expose!
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Old 05-25-2006, 11:14 PM
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Super post Webdango!
We quit PPC about 2 yrs back as it seemed to be drilling to big of a hole in our pockets for the amount of trackable referals. Low conversion rate compared to Y! or GG organic listings as well.

I checked out that "drivingjobtruck{dot}net" site and wow - are those Y! sponsored through Overture or fancy AdSense links? I guess the former. They're buying AdWords listings to drive it since they aren't cached in GG, when I checked it.

Seems like the outlay of $$ for the Ads to the site would cancel out the profit of the Ads that they are hosting. Looks awful fishy.
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Old 05-26-2006, 05:01 AM
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Taking up the point on ebay, did any of you here that Yahoo and ebay are planning a merger?

The concept is simple - ebay has more search terms than probably even the mighty Google - feed that into Yahoo with results pointing at e-bay bulk sellers - natural search starts to make money by charging a commission to the seller.
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Old 05-26-2006, 05:58 AM
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A couple of days back when matt cutts made that post about Rules of thumb it got me wondering.

You guys remember the Data Docket controversy. What if these fraud companies are actually owned or "supported" by Yahoo or Google.

LOL, that would be the biggest scam in history.

Some may think they're above it or its too risky, but that depends only on feasibility. A lot of that depends on numbers, which we never have access to.

What are the profits, and what are the chances of anyone ever making a connection?

As rorimandi said, they don't even offer a refund, just "credits". Scam me, credit me back if you the situation seems tough, then scam me again.

I need a fool proof business plan like that!!
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Old 05-26-2006, 11:09 AM
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I work for an agency and manage PPC for a number of clients. In the majority of cases, PPC is very profitable, but one of our clients was struggling. That led me to start digging a little deeper than usual. At first I was looking for negative keywords so that I could make the campaigns more effecient. What I found was quite surprising and echos Webdango's (and other's) findings.

I found a massive list of low quality sites that display nothing but sponsored links. This was all the more surprising because, as a rule, we never ever use the content networks. Opting out of the content network is part of our standard account setup process. Nevertheless, here is the list of Yahoo "Search Partners" that I found in referer logs from just 3 of our clients:

1877flowers.com
2006-deals.com
207.97.195.251newsitev4
411flowersonline.com
accoona.com
adwave.com
alltheautomotive.com
allthebrands.com
altavista.com
apctaillights.com
areaconnect.com
areaguides.net
avantfind.com
bennettsvillesouthcarolina.com
best-truckaccessories.com
bestwebdiscounts.com
burn4free-toolbar.com
butterflies.com
carithersflorist.com
catalogslistings.com
champs.com
cheapflowersguide.com
childwallpaper.com
cnn.com
com.org
computerwallpaper.com
crawler.com
current.com
dallasfloristdirectory.com
dashmat.net
djbabe.com
dogpile.com
encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com
espn.go.com
ewoss.com
ewoss.net
exactsearch.net
excite.com
faster-results.com
findfast.com
flowerarrangementsguide.com
flowersforless.com
freeze.com
giantexplorer.com
goflowers.com
goodsearch.com
granatelli.com
greatdate.com
greatflorists.com
heidesflowers.com
hiddenhitchinfo.com
homedecoratingsearch.com
homepopular.org
ilovedesktop.com
infospace.com
juno.com
justbabyflowers.com
kidwallpapers.com
localinfoonline.com
locateproducts.com
lookupanything.net
marketresearchers.com
maximonline.com
megaspider.com
metacrawler.com
miamiflowerdirectory.com
movieswallpapers.com
msn.ca
msn.com
myspace.com
mytelus.com
nationalgeographic.com
need2find.com
neowallpapers.com
netzero.net
newyorkfloristdirectory.com
nightstar.com
nuseek.com
oemji.com
onestepsearch.net
onlinefloristslistings.com
onlydirectflowers.com
optonline.net
overture.com
peoplepc-help.com
pro1billet.com
qsrch.com
qualitywallpaper.com
quickbrowsersearch.com
remotecarstarterdirectory.com
roseworld.com
searchinaflash.com
searchscout.com
seeq.com
sendflowerstoday.com
shop4flowers.com
skinnyllama.com
starware.com
strawberryshortcakewallpaper.com
substancefactory.com
technorati.com
thefreedictionary.com
universalsearcher.com
us.com
usa.com
us-flowers.com
verizon.net
viewpoint.com
wallpapars.com
wallpapel.com
wall-paper.com
wallpaperborderdirectory.com
wallpaperdesigners.net
wallpapergirls.net
wallpaperoutlet.com
wall-papers.com
wallpaper-steen.com
wallpaperz.com
wallpapper.com
walpaper.com
weatherstudio.com
webquest.com
websearch.com
webshots.com
wooddashkits.net
wurldwide.net
xenonbodykits.com
yahoo.com
zapmeta.com

____Sites from a UK Client_____
bargains.igh.co.uk
uk.net
trafficz.com
msn.co.uk
uk.altavista.com
ceeble.com
eu.com
firmbreasts.co.uk <-WTH?
gomeo.co.uk
peoplewant.co.uk
thefitmap.co.uk
top4deals.com
top-cosmetic-surgery.co.uk
top-five.co.uk
womenwant.co.uk

As you can see, there are some really crappy sites in there. Many of them are portfolio domains owned by companies like Grassroots.org and MDNH, Inc. who have, apparently, partnered with Yahoo to display ads on all of their parked domains. Several of them, like Starware.com, seem to be linked to browser toolbars.

For the record, Google's list isn't perfect either (though it's better). What upset me is that it now includes Sedo.com and pages parked with Sedo show Google ads through the Search Partner network (not the Content network).

Two more things:

First, we do see conversions coming through some of these sites. Mostly the lower-tier homepage type sites like Earthlink and People-pc which actually generate real searches.

I would not advocate the complete abolition of the Search Network but I would really like to see a lot more control over where my ads end up. When you tell me that this medium is based on performance and control you really need to mean that to keep me coming back. Quality is worth more to me than quantity.

Second, Yahoo REALLY needs to work on their location detection. The list of countries from which my ads have been clicked is very long (over 70). If you thought your Yahoo campaign was US only, think again. We can only hope their the new system will address this problem.

Or better yet, call and email Yahoo and ask for credit back (since that'