Project: test business model?

**Ne0** · #1 (**permalink**) 07-21-2005, 04:38 PM

Hey all...

After reading all the great responses that Cspelts received after laying it all out on the table... I started thinking. I have an idea for a test business model but I know that I haven't thought about all of possible shortfalls / problems that I might have! So anyways here is the idea....

I have a company that basically started out as a joke. Crackhead Lighters dot com To make a really long story short. It was funny at the time, and my partners thought it was a great idea... So in the beginning my friend Johnny McCarthy was the first american to be arrested for breaking the Calvin Klein law in NY. (This got him tons of publicity) So I built his website for him and had ton's of traffic in the beginning. Now not so much and sales have dwindled and no one really remembers Johnny now! So I have a website w/ about 400 unique visitors a month, and I own the international TM (trade mark) to crackhead lighters (you know the cheap lighters in every corner store) I have about 15 designs of dirty t shirts and about $2,000.00 worth of stock just sitting around.

What has happened recently is this... My partner signed the entire company over to me (where as I had a 60% intrest in the company prior to) Now I have the entire thing and it's just sitting there. I know it can make money... So this is my crazy idea... Since I know so many of you as real web professionals what if I break the company up? What I mean is, what if I take 40% of the company and take on two 20% partners or 4 10% partners? Does this make sense? I've been struggling with this for the last few weeks and can't quite figure out how to do this or how to present it properly... So that's why I'm here!

Any suggestions? Anyone intrested in trying to make a company run? I did at one point have the company where I was almost able to retire.... then I lost the contract :( Spencer gift stores was going to carry 10 of my designs in their 600 stores across the USA. The only problem there is I would have had to outsource all of the shirts to China to make a bottom line to please my old partners... (So far all of the shirts have been made in Canada and the USA) I would like to keep them all in the USA... I don't know there's too much to think about sometimes and I just keep shoving it off to the back burner, but it's really time for me to do something with it! I guess I could start by doing some SEO for my site! LOL!

Anyways I'd appreciate any input and or ideas....
Thanks in advance,
NeO1

**brian.mark** · #2 (**permalink**) 07-21-2005, 04:56 PM

You could do a whole lot of things with a funny shirt site, but you've got to step back and ask what it actually does for people. People don't just go and search for a funny shirt. They want a concept, a satire on a certain person, or to just browse through a store.

The Spencer deal would have been huge. You'd still have Gadzooks and a whole slew of others to try presenting them to.

I know I sent a link to the funny shirt I'm selling pretty regularly a while back to you - it is working very well. People are searching for the concpet on the shirt, finding it and buying. With basically zero promotion, I'm selling 5 - 10 shirts per week. Not earth shattering, but I'm also playing within the confines of Cafe Press and haven't submitted those pages to a single directory, haven't received a single external link, and can't do much for SEO on the pages.

I guess the point is that you just need to get them in front of people's face. Once people see them, they're going to either hate you and leave or consider buying them. Having them in retail stores would be huge.

There is a lot I'd change about the site... if you'd really like me to list it all, I'll have to create an email. PM me with your email addy and I'll send it off.

Brian.

**ctabuk** · #3 (**permalink**) 07-22-2005, 05:12 AM

Hi Neo~1 No, Brian is sort of almost there, but you too have something like cspelts, it's unique 'crackhead' is maybe not the most politically correct expression, and some people, including my peers within wpw will say to me, hey ctabuk, don't help that name, it's druggy - well is it? People can laugh at themselves, in the UK we had a huge fad on calling people 'Dickhead 'Oh look at himm he's a right Dickhead' meaning he had the mental abilities of his penis. I can remember in my 20's I wore a tee shirt that said ' I am a mushroom, they keep me in the dark and feed me bullshit'- I loved it. And what you have here is something similar, it will cost money, and you cannot copywrite the word 'crackhead'.But if you have the TM to crackhead lighters, cool, double cool!

Photo some of the tee shirt designs and post them here, if you think they are too risky, put them in DC's (then I can ban you lol)seriously, do it, let's take a look. Remember, what offends one person makes another one laugh.

greeneagle · #4 (**permalink**) 07-22-2005, 05:49 AM

I ran across a 4 jet extreme blowtorch lighter when researching wholesale merchandise for a client - would have been ideal!

LOL

Ken

**Ne0** · #5 (**permalink**) 07-22-2005, 01:40 PM

I know the term 'crackhead' is an ugly term...
But lets face it, it's become a part of our culture... The area I live in has been called the Crack capitol of the USA! So it's rather fitting that the company was spawned here! And you are right you cannot copyright 'crackhead' nor can you trademark it! I had a heck of a time with the trademark lawyer... (it was pretty funny trying to explain it to him though, I wish I could have seen his face!) All of the shirts have a slogan on them... and this was for two reasons...1.) for the trademark board. (there is a picture of a guy that just got his head cracked open) hence the 'crackhead' and we bought a ton of lighters! 2.) I actually got alot of heat from the D.E.A. (and they still visit my site once a week to make sure that I'm not giving out recipies to make crack! LOL! Anyone ever seen a 230lb crackhead? hahaha... So the slogan says "Don't smoke crack...lick it"
The entire idea behind the site is to poke fun at the degredation of our society. I know it's not pretty but someone had to do it... I just volunteered! And David I'll post the pics @ DC they are a little racy :D

L8 M8's
NeO1

wrmineo · #6 (**permalink**) 07-22-2005, 10:38 PM

WOW! Lots of points to respond to, where to start?

First, crackhead has become simply part of our cultural slang, not necessarily calling someone a dopehead so much as to indicate they're "outthere". It's become as loosely used and less offensive like calling some bitch ... depends on the context, and of course the recipient. To that, I think it makes a very good moniker for a line of funky products that you site has. BTW - very cool; yes a bit racy for some, but shock sell - ask your friend Howard Stern! :)

I wouldn't worry about Spencers or the like personally. The right "accidental" market niche will have them coming to you and on your terms IMO.

When I first saw this, I actually thought about the Girls Gone Wild millionaires who took a bold move in asking girls to flash at bars and the like - and now they're coming up to them voluntarily without invitation for a shot in the spotlight. I think if you got one really hot concept shirt and could get some exposure and buzz created over it, the rest would be down the proverbial hill.

I think you need to start scheming how you might get some of your shirts seen on high profile people.

Some similarly concepted names that can be copywrited could help too - crackhead concepts, designs, so on ... see if they have TM (C) or SM ...

Do you have a college nearby? I think this would make for a very good focus group and free market research. College sports bars, frat houses, quads, etc. could be a good test market and even good starting point for getting some sales and exposure. College bars that have band nights would be hot too - offer the band and/or bar owner some freebies or web exposure for letting your market research and sell on a hot traffic night ...

Send a shirt Howard (Stern) and get a photo and plug that on your site.

Anyway ... chew on some of this and the other points made, time for me to light up and consider it some more :)

andrewtcrane · #7 (**permalink**) 07-23-2005, 12:18 AM

...about bringing on business partners.

First of all, what is the legal structure of the business? A corporation?

I would not recommend selling more than 49% of shares, as you would no longer be the majority shareholder. And be careful who you sell to, because even if they are a minority shareholder, they can become extremely difficult if expectations are not met on either side, and the relationship becomes sour.

If you are looking for someone to help the business take off, consider hiring an employee or consultant to run the business for you. This would be an investment, but you would remain in control and also reap the rewards. If you are serious about persuing this, especially with partners, consult with a lawyer first so you know all of your options and risks.

What you have could be a very profitable venture considering the number of people who buy that type of smut! ;)

Cheers,
Andrew

suesheboy · #8 (**permalink**) 07-23-2005, 02:41 PM

Just got my first check this week after waiting 5 years from a Spensors project. They ripped us off and went after their supplier.

We had 4 partners and only 2 of us worked. I am glad we disolved the corperation and I may have a legal action now against the majority shareholder.

I would never do another Corp with any other parntners unless it was a LLC and even then I would rather profit share than give or get ownership with others.

**Ne0** · #9 (**permalink**) 07-23-2005, 03:40 PM

Great replies guys....

Rob - Yeah shock sells... the only 'real' problem that I've run into is this... Trying to run a professional business (fixing pc's / SEO / etc) for business owners (this is what really pays my bills) And being associated with something that is considered racy kind of hinders the professional aspect! LOL *This actually happened to me the other day at Blockbuster, I forgot my card and I told the gal behind the counter that I forgot it... she said "It's ok I know who you are... you're Mr.Crackhead!" I laughed and said ... actually David but OK... she said "Well atleast your known for something"

As far as getting famous people to wear my shirts I missed a photo shoot with Jason Mews (SP?) he's Jay from Jay and Silent Bob. Was only $1,000.00 for a 2 hour photo shoot and I could have had him model every one of my shirts in that time... plus I would have gotten to hang out with him! (I'm still working on finding people) *I did have a Dallas cowgirl wear one of my shirts :D And Howard Stern has 2 of my shirts (but he won't take a pic and send it to me... so I always look for pics of him incase he's wearing my shirt! Also Steve-0 from MTV's Jackass has one of my lighters :P But this does make me think... I know Chad Cobain (Kurt's lil bro) And guess what he does? If you said lead singer in a band... You're correct! I haven't seen him in yrs but my Dad still works with his dad so it shouldn't be too hard to get him some shirts!

Andrew - As far as splitting up the company It would be done as my attorney sees fit. I have had numerous legal bills with this company so far.

Suesheboy - I agree about the LLC (Which I haven't done yet) And as far as Spencers goes... I'm not worried about it, I'll sell twice as many shirts without them!

Brian emailed me and didn't hold any punches :P (I told him not to) Anyways I think I've found my partnership in cafepress... I can get my shirts made for half as much on the same quality shirts here in the USA....but then I have to watch my email/package/ship/adjust inventory etc... too much overhead and not enough bottom-line! Besides I figured it out and I will actually make $1.00 more per shirt with cafepress and I don't have to screw with anything!

The website as it is now SUCKS! And I know it... that is the 6th site that has been built for CHL. I am working on 7 right now, The changes will be this... No flash intro. A clean and clear main page with atleast 5 of our shirts on the main page. Then an index that runs through to all the cafe press goods that I'm going to have to design now :| A links page to all of my buddies, I'll leave the Paris Hilton video in there (cause that's just funny) I'm getting good hits now I've noticed... Don't know how they are possibly getting to me... other than the domain has been up for over a yr now? I just realized that I'm getting about 185 unique visitors a month from MSN (Which now apparently can spider flash?!?) Pretty cool though... search term "crazy t-shirts" I'm #3 out of 613,874 Not too shabby :D

Oh and Rob there are two colleges nearby but both of them are Christian colleges, so I'm not so sure how well the focus group would go over? LOL Anyone watch college basketball? Gonzaga Bulldogs baby! (right down the road from me) Ok I'm off to try and get this new site built and launched this weekend. Hopefully I have something for everyone to look at on Monday! Thanks for all the input guys!

L8 M8's
NeO1

**brian.mark** · #10 (**permalink**) 07-24-2005, 12:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeO~1

Brian emailed me and didn't hold any punches :P (I told him not to)

I don't know how to do it any other way. ;-)

Brian.

DrTandem1 · #11 (**permalink**) 07-24-2005, 02:53 PM

Brian, I think you want to divide the "enemy" not your army. What I mean by this is taking on a bunch of partners (even just one) can cause a gazillion headaches. You may want to incorporate, for legal reasons, and then assign "partners" a corporate position and well defined expectations as to their expertise as well as their respective compensation.

I don't remember what the Calvin Klein Law is, let alone Johnny. What you have experienced is your "15 minutes of fame."

Personally, I find the name "Crackhead Lighters" offensive. I wouldn't by one even to light my B-B-Q, as I don't smoke (anything). However, I hate rap music and there's a market for it, so don't go by my tastes to make money.

Making the shirts in North America rather than China may make your wholesale price too high for a chain like Spencer's to accept. Companies like that like a 1000% mark-up for retail, probably making your shirts uncompetitive with other shirts that target Spencer's demographics, which I would suspect to be teenagers to late 20's who are into drug-related things (not necessarily drugs themselves).

In other words, people that buy from Spencers really don't care where their merchandise is made. So, I'm not sure why it's important to you to have the shirts made in North America.

Zippo lighters has had a similar decline in the past few years. People just aren't buying lighters much anymore, be it cheap or collectible. What Zippo did was to broaden its market by attaching their famous name to other merchandise which is somewhat related to lighters or other small utility items. I don't think you have the brand recognition to pull that off.

So, my best adive to you is "dance with the one who brung ya."

**brian.mark** · #12 (**permalink**) 07-24-2005, 03:02 PM

Actually this is Neo's site, not mine. But the advise is good, Doc.

Brian.

**ctabuk** · #13 (**permalink**) 07-25-2005, 05:09 AM

That was a bit of a watershed from DrTandem1, he was honest enough to say that he found the word offesive, but then went on to think about the practical side of marketing. Now that Forum, is honesty and practability, we must applaud it. NeO~1 has a decent concept. I'll go take a look see in DC's to see the shirts, and post back.

kgun · #14 (**permalink**) 07-25-2005, 12:37 PM

“I have an idea for a test business model but I know that I haven't thought about all of possible shortfalls / problems that I might have! So anyways here is the idea....”

Very good start.

“What has happened recently is this... My partner signed the entire company over to me (where as I had a 60% intrest in the company prior to) Now I have the entire thing and it's just sitting there. I know it can make money... So this is my crazy idea... Since I know so many of you as real web professionals what if I break the company up? What I mean is, what if I take 40% of the company and take on two 20% partners or 4 10% partners? Does this make sense? I've been struggling with this for the last few weeks and can't quite figure out how to do this or how to present it properly... So that's why I'm here!”

Sounds good if you keep the control.

“The website as it is now SUCKS! And I know it... that is the 6th site that has been built for CHL. I am working on 7 right now, The changes will be this... No flash intro. A clean and clear main page with atleast 5 of our shirts on the main page”.

Good. I link to it if you make a great logo for me http://www.webproworld.com/viewtopic.php?t=48074

DrTandem1 wrote:

Brian, I think you want to divide the "enemy" not your army. What I mean by this is taking on a bunch of partners (even just one) can cause a gazillion headaches. You may want to incorporate, for legal reasons, and then assign "partners" a corporate position and well defined expectations as to their expertise as well as their respective compensation.

No problem in Norway as long as he

1. Keeps the control. Life is too short to discuss, better to act. I would only give away 34 %
and max 17 % to a single person / company.
2. Knows that the customer is the real boos. Asked for good solutions and it may be a pink tie.
3. The shareholders below him. They have asked for free (increasing) cash flow that is good for their shares. Building a solid brand http://www.webproworld.com/viewtopic...151&highlight=

It started with a single brick and the Chinese wall was the end result. The road is made while walking.

Kjell Bleivik
http://www.multifinanceit.com/
http://www.skupot.com/