Hey, I came across a product I really like. They claim it is open source but then they say you can't modify and then sell their product. However, rather than build a completely new product, it would be nice if I could start with this companies product, and then reverse engineer it, modifying as much code as is necessary to create a legal custom product of my own. Since the product is developed in php, and php is basically an open source code, what are the legalities with this? If they have 10,000 lines of code, and I modify say 3000 of those lines, does that give me the right to claim ownership of the product?

I know this might ruffle some feathers of some people, and for that, well, I'm sorry. But I'm trying to find out what my options are. I know any of the advice given here is not legitimate legal advice, but I'd like to get a consensus of general opinion before forking out the cash for an attorney. Thanks!

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EagleTac Store | HID Flashlights

Regardless what you modify, or how much, your code is derivative and not covered under fair use. If it contains even a smidgen of the original code it is prima facie copyright (and possibly patent) infringement.

Your option, if you intend to invent a better mousetrap is to study the application, not the code. What does the app do? What would you make it do if you could? Build your own apps if you want to steer clear of dangerous waters.

If the original code is open source then there must be a community of programmers involved. Join it and contribute your own add-ons, enhancements or suggested fixes. This way you will be doing everyone a favor, and get the credit due you for your contributions.

Hey weegillis,

thanks for the input. I suppose just to be safe it would be better/smarter to just create our own application fro scratch, observing the functionalities and features that we want to replicate, but with our own system built ourselves.

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EagleTac Store | HID Flashlights

Build from scratch, its safer. It will save you future problems like security, copyright, fees, etc.

Yeah, it looks like that is going to have to be the way we go. I'm not sure at what level we are allowed to look at another companies shopping cart software, and then implement what we SEE into our own design and code trying to assimilate similar features though. Any thoughts?

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EagleTac Store | HID Flashlights

If it's a shopping cart you want, there are services that will provide it for you. Investigate this first, before you spend a great deal of time developing your own. (Just don't be messing with their code.) It could save you both time and money. That is, unless of course you have a better mousetrap in mind.

Yeah, well I was originally seeking out an open source cart I could use for my own accord, to install and provide to customers charging them for the hosting and service of installation of said cart. I fell in love with a cart which claims they are an open source shopping cart, but sells the license and then does not allow you to resell or distribute.

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EagleTac Store | HID Flashlights

Do they offer an affiliate program for promoting their cart that you could monetize?

Ultimately if it is hosting and managing you aim toward then your own code is what should be on the back end so there are no issues.

As licensing goes, you might be able to arrange volume licensing that applies only to sites hosted by you and operating under your control (in some sense), such as a central check out that all your clients' customers final orders are processed through.

It would after all be only one license in play (at the check out, anyway) and perhaps they mightn't see it as distribution if it all funnels to one place in the end. It would be easy enough to account for the activity in terms of numbers and client front-ends.

If you really like the shopping cart, then throw some weight behind it and start the ball rolling. Talk to the folks who own it and fire them up. They might come back to you with an even better proposition than you anticipated or asked for.

In today's business climate it will be the ones who work together that will thrive.

Thats some great advice! They do offer some sort of bulk licensing. I'll look into that and see what I can find out. I have contacted them already, and I'm waiting for them to get back to me now.

I did get a response from a board member at Home | Open Source Initiative - This is what they said to me:

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EagleTac Store | HID Flashlights

In your OP you did mention that the owners of the code claim it to be open source. That should have raised flags right there but I chose to address this question from the perspective of ownership. I think that a lot of so called open source is protected under any number of copyright and patent conditions.

Firefox is open source (community built) and while you can promote the browser, you cannot sell or distribute builds. Only they can. I also don't believe you can implement their code in your projects. Open Source does not necessarily imply public domain.

OpenOffice might fall under this umbrella as well, but then in this whole open source question I confess to be talking through my hat, and cannot give accurate information in this regard.

It's good that you are researching the definition, implications and provisos of open source. Perhaps you might even consider a new thread on the topic when you have some clear answers and guidelines to share...

Well, if I get schooled enough on the topic, I'd be happy too. Thanks for all the input from everybody!

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EagleTac Store | HID Flashlights

Remember Andy Warhol? I always wondered if he paid the original artists for making derivatives of their products?

If those people are giving away their code... You can take it and use it for your own. You don't see Google, MSN, EBay, Twitter releasing their code to the rest of the world now do you?

Do you really think someone is going to come sue you?

Just a thought...

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James Weisbrod - programmer

As WeeGillis already stated, "open source" and "public domain" are two entirely different things. There are many open source products available that will allow you to modify the code for your own use, but specifically prohibit the marketing and sale of that product. If it ever came before a judge, I cannot see how you could possibly come out on top.

Your tack of contacting them to investigate acceptable avenues is, IMO, the safest way to proceed. If you decide to reverse engineer the code, you will be effectively stealing their intellectual property.

That said, I have read somewhere (I do not recall where) that functional code snippets are difficult to enforce a claim on, unless a true "uniqueness" of the original product can be satisfactorily proven. In today's world, I think there are few realms in which we can find true programming uniqueness.

Nevertheless, I think the risks outweigh the benefits. Isn't it better to help enforce appropriate web standards than to help circumvent them?

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Thanks for all the tips! I definitely do not want or need a lawsuit, so I decided it would be best to just come up with my own solution.

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EagleTac Store | HID Flashlights

Can't he modify the program and offer for free on his own site. You can then charge money to support it and/or install it.

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David Ogletree
SEO Fox | SEO Blog | American Voice

We're going to pretend someone didn't just ask that.

fisher318:
Applications abound. There are many ways to skin a cat, and there are other apps that do exactly what the one in question does, you might just have to dig. There are so many good library collections springing up to come to aid of super fast PHP server side response handling and dynamic client side script calls it's been a wellspring of new web based applications. You might find something in this line that's free (or inexpensive to license).