Hello WebProWorld Gurus,

I've got a contract negotiation issue and would love your advice.

Our company's standard web development contract states that the client maintains rights to the text and content and we maintain the copyright of the design.

This is for two reasons.

1.) The client doesn't normally have the legal or financial resources to handle a copyright battle.

2.) We don't want another design firm altering our design after we release it.

Right now, we've got a client who will not sign the contract until we change the verbiage and give her full copyright of the design as well.

In general, we're pretty flexible, but this client is...well, let's just say she's not very pleasant. So our charity levels are running low.

A partner designer at another firm recommended granting her demand, but charging extra for the design copyright. Is that normal? And if so what is a normal charge for such a thing?

Any advice would be MOST appreciated!

Kelli

Perhaps a compromise position might be in order, ie. the contract can state that the design is co-authored by both parties? ie. the design will not be duplicated for your other clients, but if duplicated both parties would have the right to enforce the copyright.

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A long history of experience with the rare "unpleasant" demanding and/or cheap client suggests IMO that the best advice is to verify this is not a misunderstanding, and if it is not, seriously consider walking from the project.

This is not entirely true if they merely want PSD originals. If that's the case, quite a few clients request these.

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The Chiron Group

Charging extra for the outright transfer of the copyright is normal. We typically increase the overall price by about 50%; which usually calms this issue right down.

Up until now, we've always just given all rights to the client. Of course, we've always added that into the cost as well. It's saved us a lot of hassle.

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I may disagree with what you say, but I will defend, to the death, your right to say it.
Daffodil Valley Times, Tacoma Web Designers, $3.99 Web Hosting

A Client wanting exclusive rights to a design is understandable. I agree with the others, just charge more, and then have them sign an agreement that they will not disseminate the design to anyone else.

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Web Geek http://www.sjvwd.com
http://www.arthurspools.com

If you are afraid to walk from the contract then all of the power remains with the client. The client has a real need for the help or they wouldn't have hired you in the first place which really places the power in your hands. Most people fail to realize this and out of fear of losing the contract they cave in to demands that they might not normally give in to. Take back the power that was rightfully yours and then sell the design to their competitor.

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You can lead a blonde to reason but you can't make her think!

How much did this person put into the design? If nothing then it is like the author of a book to claim copyright over the cover art as well as the text.

From your clients point of view however, if you own the copyright to his/her sites look, what's stopping you selling it to a competitor/copy-cat?

Edit: So above commenters are giving good advice imo.

I'm with Chiron on walking away, Big Juice on not giving away your power, and epep on adding 50% for transfer of rights. I maintain a very strict policy of retaining my right to make changes to graphics and asking the client not to make or allow others to make changes. It's the only way I can protect my portfolio, plus it's in the client's best interest that he or she not turn the site into a trainwreck.

By the way, a direct competitor tries to use my copyright policy to sell against me, so when I'm talking with prospects, I'm always careful to explain that one reason I retain rights is so that I can quickly jump on copyright violations. I describe the time when that direct competitor put 15 of my real estate site designs on her own site, fraudulently claiming that they were her own design work. Using the DCMA takedown provisions, I was able to get my work removed from her site in about two weeks. I ask them to imagine how long it would have taken me to get 15 different real estate agents to file cease and desist orders and they usually get my rationale, including the point that my competitor is very sleazy.

As far as R2D2's concerns, I specify in my contract that my designs are licensed to my clients for their exclusive use.

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Suzanne Stephens, Custom Design for Point2 Real Estate Web Sites
http://www.SuzStephens.com

Sorry chaps but i fail to see how a designer can control full rights when the design was to a very specific design brief in order to meet a commercial goal - laid out by the client. You make it sound as if the design was some sort of divine inspiration. It is not, its just you getting paid for a job.
And as for "it's in the client's best interest that he or she not turn the site into a trainwreck", then that just smacks of arrogance. Why does a graphic designer know more than a business owner?

Thanks all for your very helpful insights.

I posted this same question on another forum, and am being absolutely SHREDDED over there for being self serving and unprofessional.

Contract Conflict! Now What? - SitePoint Forums

This contract issue really was an honest question, and it's never been our company's intention to be self-serving in any way.

But now I'm even more uncertain how to proceed.

and to iandoc who wrote: "And as for "it's in the client's best interest that he or she not turn the site into a trainwreck", then that just smacks of arrogance. Why does a graphic designer know more than a business owner?"

That does not smack of arrogance. That is the voice of hard experience. Believe me, when it comes to a graphic design project, the designer does know more than the average business owner. I've turned over enough designs to clients -- which were then utterly destroyed by these "knowledgeable" individuals-- to know.

I wouldn't buy from you if that was a condition of the contract, you can transfer copyright based on FULL payment by the client. If I pay for design, it is my design.

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g
take a free health assessment HealthStatus.com

Charge extra. For exclusive rights over anything on the web (pics, vids, content, etc.) you always pay more. Your client knows this, if she actually knows just a bit about how things work online.

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"Wise men win without fighting!"

I don't understand the problem. If you design something unique for that client, it should belong to the client. Are you going to sell it to someone else? If so, you are not selling them something that you intend to remain unique. If it's not unique, or not intended to be, the price should be less - not more.

One of my sons painted the murals for the Nashville Zoo. Should he try to claim ownership? He designed and built the set for the television program of Phil Fulmer, football coach at UT. He did sets for Dollywood. He creates and sells serious art. He has never claimed ownership. He is creative; moreso than most web site designers.

If a decorator 'does' my living room, does she have any ownership rights to my living room?

I was an assembler language programmer on the big iron. I never took more than 3 weeks to write any program. I wrote a book. Counting the research and writing it took 16 years. Writing a serious book is far more difficult than writing most programs. I sell the trade book version for $18. Yet people want to sell programs for hundreds or thousands. Programmers get their shorts in a wad about copyright protection while I see the government (via the library) putting Xerox machines at the end of the bookshelf so people can make copies of my work (without compensation).

Even having been a programmer, I see most programmers hiding behind the copyright law while they whine and cry. Many of these very same programmers have a few songs on their mp3 players that they didn't pay for.

Charge a reasonable fee for your work. Then you don't have to worry about charging extra if you can't have your cake and eat it too.

I'm guessing that I'm no longer the most popular poster on this board.

So basically...

You want people to pay you to build your own websites...

It sounds to me like she is your first client with any common sense...

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Search Engine Optimization - SEO | Online Business Tools & Resources

I've read all of the posts, and all I can contribute is how I handle it. I've always been of the opinion that once a site is fully paid for, it belongs to the client, lock stock and code-filled barrel.

An interior decorator may make your home beautiful, but in the end it's still YOUR home. The designer may and should retain the right to display photos/images of the finished product as an example of their work... and this is beneficial to client and designer.

I've worked on sites that were designed by other designers, and managed to preserve most (if not all) of the original design in the process. I've also had clients who wanted to update their sites themselves, and ended up with the aforementioned 'trainwreck' and most eventually came back to me to 'fix it' for them... (hourly charges apply).

The point being, that once the contract is completed, your client walks out of the store with their purchase, and you move on to the next client. I am for retaining ownership until the final bill is paid, and stipulate in my general contact that until the final bill is paid, my company retains ownership. This gives the client the freedom to either return to you for updates and additions, or go to another company... it's their choice, part of operating in a free marketplace.

As regards 'walking away' from a contract - I've done this, mostly in cases where the client has transformed their original project into something completely different, or changed their goals repeatedly through the process - I call this a "moving target of satisfaction", or has proved so difficult to work with, I just threw my hands up and told them to go someplace else.

One thing I DO insist on is a deposit of 50% of the estimated cost before any work begins. If the contract is abandoned, midstream, I deduct the hours spent from the deposit, or submit an additional billing for any hours OVER the initial deposit. This policy is also spelled out in my contract. Once a client has invested a sizeable chunk of cash on the project, they are usually more willing to negotiate to completion. If they are not willing to negotiate, at least you are paid for the work you did...

Good luck,
Puamana

I have been on both sides of this issue and I came to the conclusion that the customer should get everything upon full payment. It is THEIR website, not yours. The ONLY stipulation I ever make now is that they can not give or sell my work to somebody else without my name appearing on it somewhere.

If you insist that you maintain copyright for the design it is like a car company saying you own the car but can not change the look or color or anything else on it because they hold the copyright for the design. Hey, it's MY car. If I want it to look like a hippie mobile, it is of no concern to the car maker.

Same with websites. If I pay for the design, it is mine to mess up any way I want.

From the other side, I've made a LOT of money from people who have trashed their site with low ball bidders and had to come to me to get it fixed.

To say that you charge MORE for the copyright is bogus. You are being paid to produce something FOR the customer. It isn't like you can go in later and take it back saying you are rescinding their right to use it.

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Freelancers Gone Wild | Save money on gasoline! | Let them Eat Salad

We own and retain ALL rights to whatever work we pay for. If I was the CLIENT I would walk away from the deal just for you trying to pull this stunt.

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Gary
www.pilotjourney.com

Not the same thing, if webdesign is art just as painting, then selling the copyright to a sites design would be similar to a painter selling all rights to his painting at the gallery.

The reply I was considering before I read this was very brutal compared to this one. But... This one is so honest and true, that I can't stop giggling.

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James Allen

And I would like to add something, without seeming to push the product, that everyone needs legal advice on these things. Some people can afford lawyers at mega bucks per hour but for us small freelancers I highly recommend you go get PrePaid Legal.

PPL has helped me go after deadbeat clients, reviewed contracts before I sign them, even helped me write a boiler plate contract for my customers to sign. All for 1 low monthly fee. Now they are helping me fight the IRS.

This is something I tell ALL freelancers or small business owners, get PrePaid Legal. You will not regret it.

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Freelancers Gone Wild | Save money on gasoline! | Let them Eat Salad

In the US, the "Works for Hire" copyright law says this: "Although the general rule is that the person who creates a work is the author of that work, there is an exception to that principle: the copyright law defines a category of works called 'works made for hire' If a work is “made for hire,” the employer, and not the employee, is considered the author. The employer may be a firm, an organization, or an individual." This also applies is to commissioned work from 3rd parties. So, you pay for it - you own it under the US copyright law.

Contracts are meant to be written and rewritten. Think on how much potential revenue (do you host?) could be lost over the course of let's say 3 years.

Then how much revenue could be lost by word of mouth. Rule of thumb is that if you make her irate then she will te