Who's Paying To Be In The Yahoo Directory?

Garrett · #1 (**permalink**) 01-20-2004, 09:25 AM

Who's Paying For The Yahoo Directory? I spoke with Dan Thies today and he questioned the value of paying to be in the Yahoo directory, and now I'm curious about what you all think about paying $299 a year to be included.

Dan pointed out that if you're in the Yahoo directory and someone searches for your service or product in Yahoo search (and receives Google results) then there's a link in your listing that will take searchers to your page in the directory.

So, says Dan, you're paying for a link in Yahoo search that takes people away from your site.

Our conversation was brief and we didn't get into details. Do you think it's worth it to pay to be in the Yahoo directory?

janeth · #2 (**permalink**) 01-20-2004, 11:56 AM

I have a hard time understanding what the value would be at this time.

But I'm sure as Yahoo drops Google some how they will make it worth the $299.00 again but at this time I would see no reason in paying it.

rambodog · #3 (**permalink**) 01-20-2004, 04:25 PM

One drawback to already being listed in Yahoo, as well as considering new listings, is that Yahoo typically has shown the description and CATEGORY the the Yahoo "editors" assisgned to the website which is typically inferior to the page title and meta-description/key text on the website (which Google typically shows).

You can edit your site information but it is virtually impossible to edit a Yahoo listing. The terms in the Yahoo listing can be a negative draw on where the site ranks. However, it is apparently also affected by the "secret" algorithms determinging how sites rank in the results. Regardless, the advantage of a Yahoo listing can have a negative impact on your listing information when you show in Yahoo. Perhaps not a determining factor on it's own but a negative factor in deciding to pay for a Yahoo listing (at least the last time I reviewed it).

PGMM · #4 (**permalink**) 01-20-2004, 05:58 PM

My experience is not typical but, having produced a new software product, made some effort at optimisation I find it comes up number 2 on Yahoo without my paying to be added to the directory. I believe most users key in some search terms rather than browse directories so my answer is NO.

fctoma · #5 (**permalink**) 01-20-2004, 06:30 PM

Since they have bought up just about all the other players to wage a good war towards Google and MS, Overture is on their top three results.

I've had a directory listing a year ago, didn't renew because the Overture listings, CTR, and ROI soared above the Yahoo directory listing.

With Overture on thier results, we can modify anytime, test our various titles/descp, move up or down....non of which you can do with a directory listing.

Best to all of you from snowing Idaho!

electricwind · #6 (**permalink**) 01-20-2004, 08:18 PM

Yahoo is Yahoo because it's free to post there. They'd lose their identity, and someone else would come forward to replace them.

Once again--and I won't get up on my soapbox for this yet--it's the ugly head of commercial oligarchy, that, I suppose, is inevitable. With it comes classism--the "paid" web, and the "free" web. I prefer the latter, and so does my company. Go ahead, call me old fashioned...

OneMoreBite · #7 (**permalink**) 01-21-2004, 12:08 AM

I, for one, have been on the fence about Yahoo's $299 price tag for quite some time. When I was first building www.OneMoreBite.com I put all my attention on getting good placement in Yahoo; from choosing my website name to include a keyword (that's why I use onemorebite-weightloss.com), to their requirements for titles, and so on. Then just as I was nearly ready to slam down my plastic, the team at www.se-news.com reported it didn't make sense to pay $299 for Yahoo anymore. Nice. So I decided to take a wait-and-see approach. That was a year ago and I'm still waiting...

I did pay to list my husband's site, www.daytradersbulletin.com and originally made the mistake of using the keyword "advisory" so they placed us in Advisory Services category which is not where one looks if they want a daytrading site. I kept checking to see who was listed in the Daytrading category and the junky, useless sites I found were so appalling I finally stopped looking. It's the same old song but again, a site with hundreds of pages of information can't get listed in the correct category while a lousy site with nothing more than a "make big bucks with no effort, sign up here" page gets top billing. I always believed good content would win out, but I'm still finding those same sites getting better placement. Today a search for daytrading at Yahoo.com displays a book at Amazon.com as No. 15. That's ridiculous.

It's difficult now with so many search sites vying for your marketing dollars and only so much money to go around - who do you choose, and at $299, Yahoo may have priced themselves out of the game unless they do something to show otherwise.

Kathryn

Garrett · #8 (**permalink**) 01-21-2004, 09:27 AM

This seemed like a hot topic to me so I wrote to some SEO experts to get their opinions on whether Yahoo's worth the $299 you pay every year for a listing.

Here's what they said:

Yahoo's directory sent about a dozen visitors to Canned Books last year, so those visitors cost me $30 a pop. For $299, I can get a lot of customers through Overture. I can make a profit with Overture. Yahoo owns Overture, so they will still get paid, but I'm going to pay for results, not a hidden link.

Dan Thies, SEO Research Labs
http://www.seoresearchlabs.com

===

Only for the link value for PR, which is why I suggest all clients do it if they can afford to. I don't think enough people know that to search the Yahoo Directory, they have to type in the URL http://dir.yahoo.com or do a "web" search from the Yahoo front page and then click the "Directory" tab that comes up on the result page. The only other way to find your way into the directory to do a search is to click on one of the category links from the front page, then do a search. Does anyone do that but those few of us in the SEO biz that know the difference? I sincerely doubt it.

Mike Banks Valentine
http://SEOptimism.com

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Maybe. I am waiting to see what happens when Yahoo replaces Google with some blend of the Inktomi/alltheweb/AltaVista Crawlers to figure out if the Yahoo directory continues to make sense. For bigger clients, $299 is pocket change, so Yahoo Express looks inexpensive to them. But for smaller clients, $299 can buy enough paid listings to make Yahoo Express look like a frill.

Greg Jarboe
http://www.seo-pr.com

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I've said it at conferences for over 5 years, and I'm saying it now. Yahoo is the best $299 anyone can spend for online marketing. For web site owners who want their sites to show up well on Google (or any search engine that measures link popularity), a Yahoo listing is the quickest and least expensive way to get a high-quality link to a site.

Shari Thurow
http://www.grantasticdesigns.com/

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Nope. At least not the way it is right now. You get into Google for free, and get nothing extra by being in the Yahoo directory, so why pay for it. Plus, you get saddled with Yahoo's lousy Title instead of the one you have control over.

Jill Whalen
http://www.HighRankings.com

===

We look at the cost of a directory placement, the same way we look at any other paid link. If the listing is likely to generate referrals and is relevant to the business, we would consider the link. If we thought that a $299 listing in Yahoo would generate enough traffic (i.e. it was in a category that is very popular) we would still consider paying the fee. Of course, we do look at the SEO benefit of any link, but this is secondary to the actual traffic directly from the link.

Andy Beal
http://www.websourced.com/

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It depends. Google is still providing results there, so if you have good rankings in Google, your pages will be in Yahoo! anyway.

However, if you have a brand new site with zero visibility, paying $299 a year to get into Yahoo! will put your site on the map faster and will help your link popularity as well.

It also depends on how Yahoo! uses Inktomi results when it switches over. It may offer a pay inclusion program that covers both the search engine and directory -- I've heard rumor of that, but we'll have to wait and see how they use Inktomi's results.

Paying to have your site in Yahoo! **at the present time** isn't as important as it used to be. But, a lot depends on the Web site you're working on AND on what happens when Yahoo! begins using Inktomi results.

Robin Nobles
http://www.searchengineworkshops.com

===

Currently No, because there is not enough traffic from Yahoo's directory. This is because, 1. it's too large and takes too long to navigate. 2. The search form defaults to web results rather than the directory and the average user doesn't even realize this.

I think Yahoo is going to make changes to their pricing model shortly and the fee will be either performance based or much lower than the $299 because they realize they've abandoned that child.

Jason Dowdell
http://www.GlobalPromoter.com

WDS · #9 (**permalink**) 01-21-2004, 09:43 AM

Here's my two cents. I've never paid the $299 Yahoo inclusion fee and have been listed on the first page on yahoo for a number of our top keywords simply because I'm a paying advertiser for Overture and I've been ranked well with Google and a couple of other SE's.

Why pay an extra $299 to have your site listed in Yahoo - who knows where, with who knows what description? especially if you can use Overture and write your descriptions and titles the way you want(w/i guidelines of course!), AND send your visitor to the exact page you want them to land on? Use that $299 for better advertising elsewhere...

Cheers - Jill

Wayne McBryde · #10 (**permalink**) 01-21-2004, 09:50 AM

I build and host web sites for about 100 small businesses. Only a few have paid for a listing in Yahoo. When comparing the stats of the sites that do and don't pay Yahoo... Yahoo IS NOT WORTH $299 per year! If you have a large company or depend on search engine traffic to make a living... It may be worth it. It could even be a good deal. For most small businesses, $299 invested in paying for ad words at google will get you more traffic.
With that said, the best way to get traffic is with good content and the more the better.

janeth · #11 (**permalink**) 01-22-2004, 11:16 AM

What you have to keep in mind is that your buying a good link. A good link can help you rank higher on Google. So where it may not be worth it to pay for it on Yahoo it is made up for with a better ranking on Google.

smargenau · #12 (**permalink**) 01-22-2004, 02:08 PM

From a marketing standpoint...this subject can be viewed from a different perspective. It’s the old “stone cutter” analogy. You never know where a (particular) lead may come from...and there is no perfect tool/media that makes every company instant branding Gods.

However by using a combination of good optimization, free and paid directories, (including Yahoo for reasons already stated in this thread, print advertising (in said budget), e-mail campaigns, referral campaigns, surveys, etc., company’s can assure themselves of a solid marketing foundation that will thrive even as market conditions change and SEO wars continue. Just my 2cents.

As Napoleon Hill (Think and Grow Rich) said...“It is as useless to try to sell a man something until you have first made him want to listen as it would be to command the earth to stop rotating.”

So even those leads that may have been generated by various tactics must be written properly to attract valuable prospects and convert them into paying customers.

Cheers!

smargenau · #13 (**permalink**) 01-22-2004, 02:24 PM

Quote:

$299 invested in paying for ad words at google will get you more traffic.
With that said, the best way to get traffic is with good content and the more the better.

Ad words seems like a COMPLETE waste of money IMHO. Why? Who ever looks to the right...I'd guess less than 20% of browsers who are instead focused on the results they keyed in and not some "ad" that may or may not be relevant.

Additionally I tried this out and spent several THOUSANDS of dollars doing so...you are MUCH better off spending the moeny on a good SEO program and directory advertising.

The other thing is paying for "blind" click throughs is very scary. For example i had numerous click-throughs for web design, FLASH design, marketing etc...however most were from surfers and people like all of us just looking for info, to check out our designs or get a good idea...but we were not able ot track one tangible customer to adwrods or Overture...I'd love to see some hard data that shows otherwise, and overall i am not recomending either to my customers.

Cheers

OneMoreBite · #14 (**permalink**) 01-22-2004, 02:31 PM

If the only value to paying the Yahoo fee is better placement in other engines, then that appears to be a rather poor business model for Yahoo. Their product, a listing with Yahoo, is generally considered a waste on its surface. Frankly, I'm surprised other engines consider Yahoo's data to be worthwhile any longer.

I wish someone would ask the search engines that question: What is their reason for using Yahoo data? Enlighten me because I'm baffled.

Kathryn

Dragonsi · #15 (**permalink**) 01-22-2004, 04:23 PM

Over the last 18months, I have had several of my clients ask me if the fee to Yahoo is worth it. I have always answered NO - I believe that Yahoo is loosing it, the recent merge with BT in the UK ( www.btyahoo.com ) to try and push the UK's broadband service may confirm my suspisions. I have also been hearing rumours of Yahoo being bought by AOL - I am not sure if this is true but I still feel that Yahoo has a struggle to regain the respect it once had.

Paid inclusion is not the future, it is totaly unfair on the small business which can't afford to pay high fees to be included. Ranking and inclusion should reflect the quality of content and amount of through traffic a site receives.

AussieWebmaster · #16 (**permalink**) 01-22-2004, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smargenau

Ad words seems like a COMPLETE waste of money IMHO. Why? Who ever looks to the right...I'd guess less than 20% of browsers who are instead focused on the results they keyed in and not some "ad" that may or may not be relevant.

You only pay for the ones that find it... so you get those left lookers. If you write a crappy ad then you get crappy clickers...

Quote:

Additionally I tried this out and spent several THOUSANDS of dollars doing so...you are MUCH better off spending the money on a good SEO program and directory advertising.

(MOD deletion: Please ensure that your posts are courteous and respectful toward other members. Sarcasm is almost never going to meet the criteria for either "courteous" or "respectful")

Quote:

The other thing is paying for "blind" click throughs is very scary. For example i had numerous click-throughs for web design, FLASH design, marketing etc...however most were from surfers and people like all of us just looking for info, to check out our designs or get a good idea...

You should write the ad to qualify the traffic... the more open the ad copy the more open the traffic

Quote:

but we were not able to track one tangible customer to Adwords or Overture...I'd love to see some hard data that shows otherwise, and overall I am not recomending either to my customers.

This can be done through tracking codes.

Cheers

AussieWebmaster · #17 (**permalink**) 01-22-2004, 06:17 PM

A Yahoo directory listing will get you listed at Google inside 48 hours... having it listed elsewhere takes longer... and submitting it to Google directly will take even longer

quattro · #18 (**permalink**) 01-22-2004, 10:33 PM

worth it. I don't think anyone in SEO was ever truely paying for being in the directory, or at least I hope not. I guess you can weed out who really knows SEO from the above quotes.

Anyone in their right mind would pay $299 for a link from a site with a PR as high as yahoo.

Especially since google has been heavily using PR for the relevancy portion of their algorithm. With the recent google changes, that may not be true anymore. If so, then you simply stop paying the $299/year.

elguiri · #19 (**permalink**) 01-23-2004, 08:06 AM

Here's a tip - that I don't think anyone has offered yet - for those that find $299 a little expensive, but who have a Central or South American sister-in-law to do a bit of translation.

1. Create 2-3 sales pages in Spanish (this is good business anyway. There are 40 million Spanish speakers in the US and over 400 million worldwide).

2. Submit to http://ar.yahoo.com/ for $40!

3. If you know someone with a house in Mexico you can submit to http://mx.yahoo.com/ too for a similar price.

smargenau · #20 (**permalink**) 01-23-2004, 10:16 AM

Aussie you don't get it.

Clever words dont sell,(unles you are selling weight loss pills to the desperate) they may get someones attention...but that's not enough.

Tangible benefits that have percieved value to a prospect sell. Consider this: if someone searching for a thread via Google or other search engine more than likely their focus will stay on that thread until they find what they are looking for.

Clever headlines in Ad Words may work for some industries... I'll give you that, but I have found them useless for most professional services...and this is not a guess...this is from actual experience.

I'm still waiting to hear from anyone in the professional service industry who is geting results. Have you tried it Aussie? Have you? Tell me your results. Have you paid thousands to Google to have unknown people clicking and charging your account, out of idle curiosity? Trackable? I wouldn't waste my time...a simple "And how did you find us?" tells me what i need to know...

But I'm wide open to new ideas...so write me an AW ad for web/graphic design - Washington DC to make it less popular. I'll pay for it...and track it...and then we can but this debate to rest. And its not like you have much room to design an "ad" to qualify prospects...sheesh its a line and a URL. -- If it gets any results at all that are trackable to a customer...I will hop on the AW bandwagon with you and send you a gift certificate to Outback. :D