Contextual Ad Wars: Google vs. Overture

Garrett · #1 (**permalink**) 01-07-2004, 12:38 PM

The Google AdSense Stink. There are increasing complaints among Google advertisers about the Google AdSense program.

AdSense allows you to place ads on sites related to a given keyword, while AdWords allows you to advertise directly in the Google results.

Right now you can advertise on AdWords alone, or in AdWords and AdSense, but not AdSense alone.

The stink is that if you're buying AdWords and AdSense clicks you're paying the same price and the AdSense clicks are, according to many advertisers, worth far less.

Here's how a Google spokesperson defended their decision to keep the AdWords and AdSense prices the same: "In order to minimize complexity in bidding decisions, at this time we aren't asking advertisers to make separate bidding decisions for contextual and search advertising..."

In other words, "our advertisers are willing to pay more money for less value so long as it's easier for them." Right.

Nate Elliot of ClickZ thinks they're not allowing this separation of bids because they're giving too much money to the sites who publish Google ads. This policy brings them a wide reach as content sites flock to the AdSense program, but ultimately shorts advertisers who receive less value at the same cost as AdWords.

Read Nate Elliot's AdSense article.

Overture Content Match: Giving you a choice. Coming soon at Overture - the division of contextual listings and paid listings. Dina Freeman, Overture representative, said that the official launch date for Enhanced Content Match is "sometime in January 2004." I just hope their contextual ad placements are more precise than their scheduled launch date.

I asked her about how they pick the sites that run their ads (it's Google's strategy to partner with just about every content provider on the web, including personal blogs). Overture has a combined editorial and algorithmic process. She wouldn't tell me the official percentage of editorial to algorithm decision making.

Right now they're publishing ads on MSN, Yahoo!, Away, My Family, Edmunds, Knight Ridder, Homestore, advertising.com, and more. They're still in the process of selectively signing partners.

Kanoodle Kontext. I spoke with Jim Jacka of Kanoodle about the Kanoodle Kontext program, another contextual advertising alternative.

Kanoodle's answer to AdSense also allows separate bidding on search listings and in-context listings. You can advertise on Kanoodle Kontext for free until the 9th, but for now they only have an alliance with CBS MarketWatch, so don't bother unless you're a financial site.

I'll keep you posted as they add more sites to their roster.

Their on-site search engine uses Inktomi's results.

Pedster · #2 (**permalink**) 01-08-2004, 11:48 AM

I signed up with them last year hoping for traffic.... I paid £5ukp startup, added my campaigns, etc...... Right, my site isn't the best of sites, fair enough - however, when my ads had 1,000 impressions Google said that my account has become 'slowed down' and needs re-activating. If this happens the third time, I have to pay £5 for every third time I have to re-activate.
This, as you say, "Stinks" - theyre nothing but money grabbers! Okay, I'm just a website that is a hobby to me, therefore I cannot afford major advertising campaigns.

Now I'm with Overture. Which I can say is miles better, you can choose which package is suited to you. Gained over 700 visitors a day with them!

Thats my 2p's worth :D... many will disagree, and agree with my comments, its all down to personal preference.

mediahound · #3 (**permalink**) 01-08-2004, 12:19 PM

Lets not forget to stress, while we're on the topic, that advertisers can change their preferences as far as content sites go. If they dont want their ads to be displayed on content sites, then they dont have to. They can get all their clicks directly from google.com if they want.

Not that I would recommend this to advertisers, as it's against what I strive for every day, but let the truth be known.

In addition, this "lower value placement" will slowly get more valuable as google picks up more advertisers. So your feelings on this hot topic should be re-considered in a few months from now. The more advertisers, the more targeted the ads become. Hence, the more value to be included on content sites.

Any thoughts?

- Jarred

jstarkweather · #4 (**permalink**) 01-08-2004, 12:51 PM

It may not be your intent but I am getting the feeling from recent mailings that you are rather anti-Google.

Personally I don't pay for listings so I am only interested in actual results not placed ads (which as a user I tend to ignore anyways).

(As an aside) If I were to fault any organization for an overall problem with search engines it would be DMOZ. They are single handingly keeping my Google rank down a level by not adding my site to the directory. 2 years and still no listing! A pox on you DMOZ.

Jim

Pedster · #5 (**permalink**) 01-08-2004, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jstarkweather

(As an aside) If I were to fault any organization for an overall problem with search engines it would be DMOZ. They are single handingly keeping my Google rank down a level by not adding my site to the directory. 2 years and still no listing! A pox on you DMOZ.

I am still waiting too...... They say that my site hasn't enuff content to do with the category (Directories)..

I replied saying

Quote:

"Well, correct me if I'm wrong, but, thats one of the reasons that 'we' submit to search engines and directories.... to improve awareness... no? <sigh>".

Am I wrong here?

Corobori · #6 (**permalink**) 01-08-2004, 01:22 PM

I am using AdSense for a month now. My problem is that I am using it in a Spanish speaking website and it seems that what AdSense delivers is mainly in English, just few Spanish ads. I wish I could have a deeper control on which are displayed, the same way AdWords does when you can specify language or even country.

Also since this Monday I noticed a huge drop in the average value for clicks. It used to be around 13c and now it's at a paltry 4c

Cyber Gypsy · #7 (**permalink**) 01-08-2004, 04:36 PM

They offered adsense to me because my site gets a lot of traffic. I didn't like junking it up with a lot of commercial adds but they are sending me a check. I wouldn't pay for it but since they are paying me, Well, I'll take it.
http://www.teacuppoodles.us
Cyper Gypsy

kingdonk · #8 (**permalink**) 01-08-2004, 04:59 PM

I personally wouldent advertise on Google but paying for both adsense and adwords.
You get the placement on the sites that you want, so you get the visitors you want.
Its not like your site is about horses and you are advertised on a dogs web site.
You pay for a click, so if some one clicks on your ad, weather its on the adsense or adwords is the same.
You pay for the visitor, you get the visitor.

willstein · #9 (**permalink**) 01-08-2004, 05:56 PM

I have both adwords and adsense accounts setup.

Adwords - I have had a real bad time with this one. Advertising for webdesign was real tricky, and in the end I was forced to pay $0.40 and up per click. Now, I don't know if this is normal, but it's definitely not a wise investment. I found a way to get $35 free towards adwords, so I'm using my remainder torwards real, real unused keywords that refer to my business specifically.

Adsense - This was real shocking to me. Something is fishy in the way they tally up the totals each day. I know for a fact that more users click the ad's than they say. And, what's up with the first day making a wopping $14.00 on 40 clicks, and the rest of the days making $3.00 on 30 clicks. Any ideas? Oh and the strange jump to $32.00 on 25 clicks a few days ago.

Both need redesigning somehow, but I'm not complaining.

Cyber Gypsy · #10 (**permalink**) 01-08-2004, 06:18 PM

I would never pay for placement. But the adsense I couldn't turn down. I don't know how they tally up the clicks and convert it to cash but it pays for my hosting fees. If anyone knows, I wish they would share it.
Cyber Gypsy
htp://www.cybergypsywebdesign.com

mediahound · #11 (**permalink**) 01-08-2004, 11:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corobori

I noticed a huge drop in the average value for clicks. It used to be around 13c and now it's at a paltry 4c

Without divulging numbers, I average 49.54 cents per click. Just did the math. This is spread over my portfolio of domains, I have hundreds of categories of sites. So what I'm saying, is keep your chin up, don't get discouraged. If your only netting 4 cents a click, re-think the products and content your promoting.

Corobori · #12 (**permalink**) 01-09-2004, 07:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MediaHound

Without divulging numbers, I average 49.54 cents per click.

Gosh, that is good. You probably have website with English contents, mine is Spanish and aiming at a South American market. That probably makes a huge difference on how much people are willing to pay for their clicks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyber Gypsy

I don't know how they tally up the clicks and convert it to cash but it pays for my hosting fees

I am also paying my hosting fees with AdSense but I was aiming higher than that

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyber Gypsy

I would never pay for placement.

I am using AdWords and have been able to drive quality visits to one of my website. I don't want high number of visits just for the sake of it.

Corobori · #13 (**permalink**) 01-09-2004, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyber Gypsy

They offered adsense to me because my site gets a lot of traffic.

In raw numbers how much is "a lot of traffic" ?

awall19 · #14 (**permalink**) 01-09-2004, 01:34 PM

I LOVE AdSense!!!

Its a wonderful idea! Some of the sites that use it end up stinking, but its goals are great. People who really care to learn and provide solid information can literally stay at home and become experts at anything they are really interested in.

THAT IS AWESOME!!!!!! To me that is what life is about. Finding what you want to do...teach yourself about it, and then do it.

People are complaining that the ad prices should be seperate. I completely disagree.

Why should google add a feature that looses revenue for it and its publishers to help lazy people.

Today I just disabled syndication on one of my clients sites. Its not that hard to do.

Google allows people to set up as many ad campaigns as they would like. If you want to pay less here for AdSense ads here is what you do:

1.)Setup an account for normal Google ads and disable content syndication.
2.)Setup a second account at a lower price and enable syndication.

Surely it does not take that long to copy the keyword list and copy from campaign 1 to campaign 2.

I do not think google should pay people for being lazy when the feature can already be installed in less than 5 minutes.

In my opinion (still young and new though) I believe that the ad copy should be different for content and search sites anyway.

awall19 · #15 (**permalink**) 01-09-2004, 01:35 PM

Also, for those who would never pay for placement: people pay for placement because the advertising pays for itself. Why would you consider throwing away a revenue stream just because others are available?

mythman · #16 (**permalink**) 01-10-2004, 02:53 AM

AdWords is OK - you pay Google to let you 'own more stead' in certain words on its searches, and they do so - but AdSense: At first glance (reading the program's name and brief description) it's WRONG. I want to have absoute power over my website's content - at least with respect to all conscientiously communicated content (i.e. text, featured images, etc.) I understand that - having agreed to the fine print that says I'll continue to agree with the fine print any time the "fine print"-ers decide to finely reprint the original fine print - my site listed on Google may have to submit to the posting of disagreeable links, so we need to make sure that Google's administrators consider all the results of these actions. (Google might thereby become "the SE that hacks into- and takes over-all the submitted sites.")

But I don't know what kind of conditions Google puts on AdSense - I'd allow them (I might even PAY them) to ASK ME for each individual listing they'd like to post on my site. It would actually be a GOOD, acceptable practice to think of Google as sort of a "WebMasters' Trading Post" in that regard.

P.S. Excuse the 'all-caps' in lieu of intelligent formatting, but I don't believe that this matter is serious enough to warrant 'painstaking' carefulness in publishing.

awall19 · #17 (**permalink**) 01-11-2004, 04:40 AM

If you want to block a site you can!

In addition irrelevant ads will not appear very long because they get shut off if their click through rate is too low...

The whole gain with AdSense is that it is automated...if a company dies and new ones take their place you do not have to waste your time reviewing everything.

ty_buchanan · #18 (**permalink**) 01-11-2004, 05:04 AM

Hi guys,
My name is Tyrone Buchanan and I have just joined. Being involved in small business operations for most of my working life I feel that advertising per se is overrated. In the vehicle building and repair industy if you are operating in the right manner there is no no need to spend a cent on advertising - your product and service is your advertising and clients return.

The move by search engines to push websites up to the top of the list if they pay should not be called advertising. It should be could market distortion, or even extortion. We are capitalists are we not? Some advertising by says Google in necessary for that company to survive financially. But as customers (we peruse the ads) when we enter words in the search box we are entitled to get the "corect" and the most appropriate list of websites.

If the results are "engineered" then in Australia we can make a submission to the ACCC.

Your,
Ty

awall19 · #19 (**permalink**) 01-11-2004, 11:23 PM

Quote:

The move by search engines to push websites up to the top of the list if they pay should not be called advertising. It should be could market distortion, or even extortion.

Must all of these geniuses work free to improve your life? Google clearly seperates ads from organic search results.