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Old 04-08-2005, 02:39 PM
Chris Chris is offline
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Default Google United - Google Patent Examined

The following was written by Jim Hedger.

Google's newest patent application is lengthy. It is interesting in some places and enigmatic in others. Less colourful than most end user license agreements, the patent covers an enormous range of ranking analysis techniques Google wants to ensure are kept under their control.

Thoughts on Google's patent...
"Information retrieval based on historical data"

Some of the ideas and concepts covered in the document are almost certainly worked into the current algorithm running Google. Some are being worked in as this article is being written. Some may never see the blue-light of electrons but are pretty good ideas so it might have been considered wise to patent them. Google's not saying which is which. While not exactly War and Peace, it's a pretty complex document that gives readers a glimpse inside the minds of Google engineers. What it doesn't give is a 100% clear overview of how Google operates now and how the various ideas covered in the patent application will be integrated into Google's algorithms. One interesting section seems to confirm what SEOs have been saying for almost a year, Google does have a "sandbox" where it stores new links or sites for about a month before evaluation.

Google is in the midst of sweeping changes to the way it operates as a search engine. As a matter of fact, it isn't really a search engine in the fine sense of the word anymore. It isn't really a portal either. It is more of an institution, the ultimate private-public partnership. Calling itself a media-company, Google is now a multi-faceted information and multi-media delivery system that is accessed primarily through its well-known interface found at www.google.com.

Google is known for its from-the-hip style of innovation. While the face is familiar, the brains behind it are growing and changing rapidly. Four major factors (technology, revenue, user demand and competition) influence and drive these changes. Where Microsoft dithers and .dll's over its software for years before introduction, Google encourages its staff to spend up to 20% of their time tripping their way up the stairs of invention. Sometimes they produce ideas that didn't work out as they expected, as was the case with Orkut, and sometimes they produce spectacular results as with Google News. The sum total of what works and what doesn't work has served to inform Google what its users want in a search engine. After all, where the users go, the advertising dollars must follow. Such is the way of the Internet.

In its recent SEC filing, the first it has produced since going public in August 2004, Google said it was going to spend a lot of money to continue outpacing its rivals. This year they figure they will spend about $500 million to develop or enhance newer technologies. In 2004 and 2003, Google spent $319 million and $177 million respectively. The increase in innovation-spending corresponds with a doubling of Google's staff headcount which has jumped from 1628 employees in 2003 to 3021 by the end of 2004.

Over the past five years Google has produced a number of features that have proven popular enough to be included among its public-search offerings. On their front page, these features include Image Search, Google Groups, Google News, Froogle, Google Local, and Google Desktop. There are dozens of other features which can be accessed by clicking on the "more" button near the upper right of the screen. We believe that Google is working to tie all these features together to present its users with search options that are, for want of a better phrase, more relevant than those offered by its competitors. As the Internet and technologies available for users advances, different types of files become searchable and therefore relevant to users. Take Google Video as an example. Now Google (and some of its competitors) can find and read text from closed captioning scripts. As well quotes from recent episodes of virtually any TV show are searchable and can be served back to users along side the clip where the quote originated. Now, imagine a merging of video, textual, graphical and audio files in organic search results. This is, in our opinion, the true intent of the ideas contained in the patent document.

The patent document relates primarily to sorting and cataloging organic search results. As we know them today, organic search results at Google are influenced by a number of factors, many of which involve an evaluation of incoming links. Google needs to ensure its users and advertisers that it is capable of taking action against the darker facets of the search engine optimization sector. Recent stories in the mainstream press have left many with the impression that dark-art SEO and link-spamming is the surest way to get top placements. Google engineers take pride in their work and the popularity of their organic search results is the bedrock on which their profitable business models are built. They can't afford to allow link-spam and deceptive SEO techniques to dominate their organic listings, especially as these listings are about to address and catalog a much more robust and complicated Internet.

Over the past ten months, SEOs have complained and questioned the phenomena known as the Google Sandbox. The sandbox theory explains the time-lag between link-acquisition for a site and link-recognition and reward by Google. A few key sections of the patent document fill in the blanks for SEOs on what Google is examining when a finely crafted link-building campaign falls into the sandbox. The biggest influencer is links and Google is finding new and improved ways to evaluate them.

Google's core algorithm is based on measuring links coming into a page. Because of this, link-building is part of any good search engine optimization campaign. In the span of a month, incoming links to one or more pages of a website might jump by hundreds or thousands. Some of those links might be useful in Google's eyes and some might be useless. The question is, how does it sort which is which?

Google collects a lot of data when it examines a page and the links directed on to or off of that page. When Google mentions they are using "historic data" to determine the value of links directed to your page, they are referring to a number of factors. It knows how long the page has been online, or at least when it first became aware of said page. It also knows how long pages linked to have been online. It knows how often links get clicked and also knows which computer, (and in many cases, exactly who) is clicking the link and where that clicking is coming from.

For an example, check out the following sections from the patent document:

1. A method for scoring a document, comprising: identifying a document; obtaining one or more types of history data associated with the document; and generating a score for the document based on the one or more types of history data.

2. The method of claim 1, wherein the one or more types of history data includes information relating to an inception date; and wherein the generating a score includes: determining an inception date corresponding to the document, and scoring the document based, at least in part, on the inception date corresponding to the document.

3. The method of claim 2, wherein the document includes a plurality of documents; and wherein the scoring the document includes: determining an age of each of the documents based on the inception dates corresponding to the documents, determining an average age of the documents based on the ages of the documents, and scoring the documents based, at least in part, on a difference between the ages of the documents and the average age.

4. The method of claim 2, wherein the generating a score for the document includes scoring the document based, at least in part, on an elapsed time measured from the inception date corresponding to the document.

By the time a reader gets to item 63, the document has covered dozens of page, site, link and URL related factors that may or may not be included in the current working algorithm.

Here is a quick breakdown of "history factors" we think are relevant to Google's algorithm today. Please note, each item might refer to a specific page and at the same time, also refer to all other pages associated with it.


How long a domain or URL has has been registered.


Has ownership of a domain changed after previous registrations expired?


Has the physical location of the registrant changed?


How lengthy is the URL itself? Was it registered to game the index?


How many pages are included in the website? (A one document or page website is not considered a highly relevant source of information.)


Freshness and age of document.


Use of anchor text (both on site and in links directed to site).


"Trust Factors" regarding sites or pages outbound links refer to, and inbound links are found on.


The "discovery date" of a particular link and the history of changes involving that link.


Rate of growth for new links. A sudden burst of growth likely indicates some form of link-spam.


Variations in anchor text used to phrase links directed to a page being evaluated. If the same anchor text is used in every inbound link, are they phrased that way for branding purposes or spamming purposes?


Number of searches for keyword phrase associated with the anchor text used in links.


Number of times Google users click on Google results by entering keyword phrases used in anchor text of incoming links. Does the page being evaluated receive visitors for that keyword phrase on Google's search engine?


How do users actually behave while on the page, site or document being evaluated?

There is a lot more to find in this document. Thus far, the more we explain, the more questions we have. One thing we are very sure about, the intent of the ideas covered in the patents extends beyond the search tool we know now. We expect to publish a white paper on our analysis of the patent and its implications early next week. Until then, we advise our clients to stay the course. We have long preached a very conservative approach to Google based on relevant link building (which can be slow going but very effective), highly stratified content that is relevant only to the topic addressed by the site, and clear paths based on multiple keyword phrases for spiders to follow.
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Old 04-08-2005, 05:34 PM
GunMuse GunMuse is offline
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I have never seen so many or such kind words when someone has just tried to patent common sense.

Literally Google wants to patent any and every way a page could be read. Including ideas already built into MySql.

This is a very broad patent.

How many links come to my site is MY BUSINESS and if Google wants to use MY BUSINESS INFO to rank me they are welcome. Not at the expense of telling Yahoo and MSN they can't do the same.

All of the information they are patenting is a number or stat that is directly related to how I run my business. They are not trying to patent an algorithm here they want to patent my business stats and keep the ability to use them to themselves.

Frankly the two editorials I have read on this didn't seem to comprehend the scope of just how broad this patent is. That the information would then become the property of Google and they would have a right to sue YOU for ranking your own PAGES on your OWN SITE with any of these methods.

Broad Patents and Corporate litigation Blackmail has kept Overture in power and partnered up on top for as long as it has been. Its also why they can now charge 10cents per click min.
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Old 04-09-2005, 03:00 AM
IIxxVADERxxII IIxxVADERxxII is offline
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Default Get off Google already!

Bottom line. Goole absolutely sucks for marketing.

Their pay per click program is riddled with fraud.

Their search engine results are fully manipulated.

Yahoo & MSN will decapitate Google eventually, it is just a matter of time. Why do you all think they went public so many years ago when they swore up and down they would never go public.

Google defaces the value of a domain name. Plain and simple.

MSN and Yahoo, with MSN leading the charge, are going to bat for YOU, and hitting a home run. Sorry Google, a domain name does have value despite what your search engine/ algo. thinks.

They can patent whatever they want but they seem to never get the point. Relevancy, and good domain names are the future of search engines results, not manipulation and fraud.

Google, Pizz off and die already. Developers like me have had enough of Googles garbage and canned excuses.
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Old 04-09-2005, 02:15 PM
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Default Re: Get off Google already!

Quote:
Originally Posted by IIxxVADERxxII
Google, Pizz off and die already. Developers like me have had enough of Googles garbage and canned excuses.
Google already died. They are forgot about their SERPs quality, fresh results, reindexing, index updates etc. Their new algoritms from last year simply dont work. I am switched to MSN, they are the best for now.

... and any webmaster (siteowner) can never forget: Google making money with our content.
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Old 04-09-2005, 07:55 PM
GunMuse GunMuse is offline
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I am not really a MSN or Yahoo fan either they all boycott us at will because of personal political beliefs.

But I do agree the new MSN search is outstanding and by far the best results on the web at this point.

As for the Firearm industry I have had to resort to building our own crawler with hand cleaned results. Other industries may result to the same making the big 3 null and void.

But that is the reason for the patent BS is to maintain power by force of law that is not being taken care of by pride in workmanship.
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Old 04-12-2005, 10:09 PM
gworld gworld is offline
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I thought I was going crazy when I posted in Google section

Poll about Google result

that search result is just going downhill all the time but it seems from postings here there are others who think so too.

Usually patents that try to cover everything, are not defendable in courts and more serves as a tool to scare the smaller companies but in case of Google the competition will be MSN and Yahoo and some how I don't think that they will be scared of legal costs.
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Old 04-13-2005, 05:23 AM
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Where did all this anti-Google sentiment come from?
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Old 04-13-2005, 09:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adbart
Where did all this anti-Google sentiment come from?
From getting more and more lousy search results.
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Old 04-13-2005, 10:28 AM
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The results might've got worse, but they're still better than MSN, for instance.

I think you're being a bit harsh on Gooooooogle.
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Old 04-13-2005, 03:24 PM
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The "handmade greeting card designs" search doesn't pull www.beautifulcards-direct.com up until page 2 on MSN while google has the #1. shows how off they are in regards to quality or authoritativeness (that a real word?).
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Old 04-14-2005, 04:44 PM
www.a2zidx.com www.a2zidx.com is offline
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Default Danger of monopoly.

Reading some of google's claims it would appear that many of these claims should not be allowed as previous patent applications have been made including one of my own that cover some of these issues. It is important that these claims do not prevent the industry from using history tagging and data relationships and it could end up in a monopoly.

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Old 09-06-2007, 05:52 AM
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Default Re: Google United - Google Patent Examined

IIxxVADERxxII has it down pat except he forgot to mention that google's so called organic results are manipulated garbage too with crap made for adsense sites ranking higher than what few real sites are left in the results. Especially in the Travel Serps which has to be their biggest money making sector. Does anybody beoieve in google anymore. And you adbart your name says it all dont it? Change it to XXXXX why dont you?

Google plays to the lowest common denominator and with its revenue coming from the 3% who actually click on its contextual ads seems to have forgotten about the other 97% of us. Its OK because they give us free maps of the galaxy while sticking thier hand in out pockets when they think we arent looking. Die Google scum and take your patent with you - Serchy and Scary just want that to protect them against law suits!

Last edited by rumblepup : 09-06-2007 at 11:56 AM. Reason: Name calling.
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Old 09-06-2007, 11:56 AM
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Default Re: Google United - Google Patent Examined

Quote:
Originally Posted by mangabeau View Post
IIxxVADERxxII has it down pat except he forgot to mention that google's so called organic results are manipulated garbage too with crap made for adsense sites ranking higher than what few real sites are left in the results. Especially in the Travel Serps which has to be their biggest money making sector. Does anybody beoieve in google anymore. And you adbart your name says it all dont it? Change it to XXXXX why dont you?

Google plays to the lowest common denominator and with its revenue coming from the 3% who actually click on its contextual ads seems to have forgotten about the other 97% of us. Its OK because they give us free maps of the galaxy while sticking thier hand in out pockets when they think we arent looking. Die Google scum and take your patent with you - Serchy and Scary just want that to protect them against law suits!
  1. No need to start calling people names. Adbart has an opinion and your more than welcome to critique his opinion. But namecalling is out.
  2. Googlebashing will get you nowhere. It's the largest search engine in terms of users, period, and our trick is to learn what they want. If you don't like a MFA site having better SERP's than you, than I suggest you report it as spam, if it is, and pay more attention to SEO.
  3. Google's organic results are just that, organic. The webmaster, seo, sitebuilder, site owner community is very, very small compared to the active user community. They are the ones using it, and if you want to be in front of them, your gonna have to be better at SEO.
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Old 09-06-2007, 01:34 PM
mangabeau mangabeau is offline
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Default Re: Google United - Google Patent Examined

A mantra to live by: SEO! Yawn! How about content?
Google sucks! I apologize to Adbart! he doesnt have google ads on his web design site which he so thoughtfully links to underneath both his posts.

Is that what you mean by SEO? does that fall under off site optimization? Should I ad my link too? and post often? How often?

I thought links were bad now! Doesnt google say so? Some links are ok but we reserve the right to change the rules anytime we feel like it!

Google sucks! Did I say Google sucked?
I really meant both Yahoo and Google suck!

Dont hate me because I have 169 billion in stock hate me becasue I am goint to ruin even the little guy if he doesnt do it my way. Google we hate you so bad!

Goolge If you get the patent approved will this being happening in the US too? It would be nice to know so I can get my affairs in order before the people come to rehabilitate me or export me as dog food!

"It is astounding that Google, whose corporate philosophy is 'don't be evil,' would enable evil by cooperating with China's censorship policies just to make a buck," says Rep. Chris Smith, a New Jersey Republican who heads the subcommittee. "Many Chinese have suffered imprisonment and torture in the service of truth--and now Google is collaborating with their persecutors." Representative Christopher H. Smith - (NJ04) - Smith Criticizes Google for Caving to China’s Demand for Internet Censorship
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Old 09-06-2007, 03:43 PM
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Default Re: Google United - Google Patent Examined

Tell me how you really feel....LOL

Look, I didn't mean to be confrontational, but I don't pay for position, I don't pay for links (well, I did pay to get into a few directories), and I do ZERO advertising.

So how am I on first page for all of my competitive and long tails keywords? A fluke? Gasp. Don't tell anybody, I'd be out of business. Nope, about a year and a half or working what Google wanted. IBL's and relative content. That's all.

Quote:
I apologize to Adbart! he doesnt have google ads on his web design site which he so thoughtfully links to underneath both his posts.
Those are called signature links. Your allowed to have them too. Adbart ain't spamming.

Quote:
I thought links were bad now! Doesnt google say so? Some links are ok but we reserve the right to change the rules anytime we feel like it!
Google can go on and on about paid links. They don't want you to pay for links to get SERP's. So they come out and ask us to do it. Google can do their own work, thank you very much.

But mangabeau, your going ape-shit because Google is being who Google is, a private company who happens to be the biggest boy on the block.

Google is not the Government. They don't make the laws, but they do make policy on how they will use their own index. They don't OWE you or me nothin'. WE don't have to rely on their services, we can market to the MSN and Yahoo SE's, or even ExactSeek or HotBot if we want.

Hate them, I don't think they care. As long as the average joe finds use in Google and their search, the average joe will use Google for searching. That's it, end of story. If the average joe stopped using Google, and started using, let's say, MSN, then they would make the rules and we'd all be bitchin' about them.
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Old 09-07-2007, 02:09 PM
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Default Re: Google United - Google Patent Examined

well said!

"Lousy results" = I don't rank as well as I would like

If all of you spent as much time developing original content as you did complaining about Google on this and other forums, you'd probably be doing much better.
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