An Exclusive Google Interview - Day 3, 11:30 AM (EST)

Garrett · #1 (**permalink**) 12-11-2003, 11:20 AM

Looking for ways to boost your Google ranking? Speaker Marissa Mayer, the Director of Consumer Web Products at Google, said during one of her speeches, "Have unique useful content. Have sitemaps. Make your site easy to reach with a text-based browser. Give your site a hierarchal structure. Have a single domain with mini-sites within, rather than having lots of sites."

Usability is a Must! Marissa says, "It's a good idea to design sites that are usable from any browser. That's something that Google may be taking into consideration - your cross-browser compatibility." Check out our Accessibility and Usability forum for more tips!

Googlebot Still Isn’t Perfect. Some of the problems Googlebot has, according to Marissa, are JavaScript, session IDs, too many parameters, dynamic URLs, Splash pages, and frames. Also, if your site requires cookies to deliver content to browsers, then that's a serious problem because the Googlebot can't accept cookies and therefore won’t be able to reach the content.

Froogle. Many of you have probably noticed Froogle results are now appearing at the top of listings in Google. Marissa also mentioned this - which to me says, “If you are selling, get yourself into Froogle now!” Froogle is becoming increasingly important.

An Exclusive Interview. Yesterday, I caught up with Marissa after her presentation. We walked through the hallway together and had a short but exclusive interview as she carried her suitcase outside to catch a taxi to the airport.

I asked, “What should people do if their sites were totally dumped from Google?”

She replied, “If you dropped in rankings, go back and look at who you linked to and who’s linking to you. If any of these people are using spam techniques, they're the reason your site no longer appears on Google.”

“Does this mean that new algorithm somehow measures the ‘neighborhood’ you're linked into more highly?”

Smiling, Marissa told me she couldn’t answer that question, because it’s a direct statement about the new Google algorithm.

We'll take that as a yes. :)

I asked the same question to Derrick Wheeler of Marketleap, and his response was, “Measure who's linking to you and see who you're linking to. Check keyword density. Check for duplicate content. Check for accidental spam. Don't try so hard to rank well. If you're taking a serious hit and losing money every day consider doing paid inclusion.”

My Take on Search Engine Strategies. There doesn't seem to be a lot of internet.com presence from what I've seen. I haven't found anyone whom I feel I can pull aside and talk to. But I have talked to several people who, like myself, are beginning to get the sense that the value of Search Engine Strategies isn't really there anymore, just because there's a sense of repetition in most of the sessions. Even much of what I've reported to you has been repetitive -- the speakers may be different, but the basic information that I've learned is all pretty much the same. "Get back to the basics." "Don't be so aggressive in Google anymore." I've heard these things so many times that I honestly feel like I could've gotten more information from spending a day reading over Danny Sullivan's articles on SearchEngineWatch or reading through the content in the WebProNews archives.

Are three days really necessary? The vendors want to speak and in a sly way present their products, and in order to put it all together they must drag it out for three days. A better idea would possibly be a one day conference featuring a panel of speakers such as Danny Sullivan. People would be able to ask questions and get direct answers from the experts. If you're going to put a conference together do it the way people really want it!

Sure, I’ve gotten lots of business cards and contacts, but I feel that the true value for attendees at conferences such as this is being able to ask direct questions to the presenters. Yes, there has been some interesting stuff but I had to chase people down to get it. Personally, I question value for people like myself. Who should attend Search Engine Strategies? Search engine optimization newbies and people who are just starting out would definitely find a place here, but for me I don't feel I've gotten anything worth this kind of money.

janeth · #2 (**permalink**) 12-11-2003, 01:21 PM

She replied, “If you dropped in rankings, go back and look at who you linked to and who’s linking to you. If any of these people are using spam techniques, they're the reason your site no longer appears on Google.”

I have no control over who links to me. If who links to me effects my ranking then that is crazzy.

I can set up a domain name do everything wrong get that domain name banned then just link to all my competition and keep a good domain name so it will climb in the ranking.

T2DMan · #3 (**permalink**) 12-11-2003, 03:59 PM

Quote:

I can set up a domain name do everything wrong get that domain name banned then just link to all my competition and keep a good domain name so it will climb in the ranking.

This is exactly why Googleguy said recently in webmasterworld, that you can't hurt your competition by linking to them, so we have contradictory comments out of Google. When you use the text -asdf after queries, you find very large numbers of websites that have dropped out. Are ALL of these in bad neighbourhoods, or have bad links? I think not. My main site "city restaurants" not affected, but a page on the same site for "Search Engine optimisation City" was initially dropped, now around 30th (was first)(page still top for "SEO city"), "City Hotels" subpage was similarily dropped (still top for "City Boutique hotels"). I do not use any different strategies for any of the pages. All on the same domain. Main page pr6, other two pages mentioned were PR5. All in the same neighbourhood, all affected differently. Common factor = blacklisted commercial phrases, specifically optimised.

www.time2dine.co.nz

withouraloha · #4 (**permalink**) 12-11-2003, 04:07 PM

What can you do about who links to your site?

It seems to me there is no way I can stop (let alone even track down) anyone who wants to link to my sites!

Using this as a factor should put google on the last possible ranking for a search such as 'search engine' since so many crappy sites link to them. This can not possibly be a serious factor in ranking now... come on...

paulduffield · #5 (**permalink**) 12-11-2003, 04:07 PM

I think it is important to listen to the full quote and not take part of it out of context...

i.e. Who you link to and who links to you.

I suspect that a key part in this the hint that it may be if you link to something iffy in Googles interpretation then you get a black mark for effectively promoting a "naughty" (in bot terms of course !) site which is against Googles interest of course. If that site also links back to you it looks even more sus to Google when they examine your site and so the penalty may well increase even more.

Just a thought.

Paul

janeth · #6 (**permalink**) 12-11-2003, 04:18 PM

Hi Paul I think it is pretty plain

"and who?s linking to you"

Now she may not know what she is talking about or we can question Garrett maybe miss quoting her.

(Sorry Garrett)

But if she is right and the quote is right then we have no control over this at all.

As a matter of fact having a good site is bad because people will want to link to you.

jeffsnox · #7 (**permalink**) 12-11-2003, 05:09 PM

Hi,

Just a thought, but perhaps both of the statements are true.

Obviously it can't be bad to produce a good web site; but obviously if you do you're going to get linked to by both good and bad web sites.

For the sake of argument, and to demonstrate what I'm trying to get at, let's assume Google have now started to record +ve and -ve page rankings (probably with more sensitivity than integers 1-10). You create a 'good' web site and it starts to get popular. Loads of sites link to you, some good, some bad. A bad (-ve page rank) inbound link has an effect on your _own_ ranking... but perhaps less of an effect (some kind of weighting system) than a good (+ve page rank) one.

Result of this is that a good inbound link is more effective at boosting your rank than is a bad inbound link... but if you have an absolute shedload of bad inbounds, and hardly any good inbounds then you're doomed.

Maybe that's how it works now.

So in answer to the queries:

-----------
Q. "Does this mean that new algorithm somehow measures the ‘neighborhood’ you're linked into more highly?"

A. Yes. They've introduced -ve as well as +ve page ranks.
-----------
Q. "I have no control over who links to me. If who links to me effects my ranking then that is crazzy.

I can set up a domain name do everything wrong get that domain name banned then just link to all my competition and keep a good domain name so it will climb in the ranking."

A. No. Only if the majority of those who link to you are baddies will your site be seriously adversely affected. Also, setting up a single domain, making it 'bad' and linking to your competition will not have much effect on them at all, you'd need to set up lots and lots of bad domains.
-------------
Q. "This is exactly why Googleguy said recently in webmasterworld, that you can't hurt your competition by linking to them, so we have contradictory comments out of Google."

A. No, this is not contradictory. See the previous answer.
-------------
Q. "It seems to me there is no way I can stop (let alone even track down) anyone who wants to link to my sites!

Using this as a factor should put google on the last possible ranking for a search such as 'search engine' since so many crappy sites link to them. This can not possibly be a serious factor in ranking now... come on..."

A. There's many ways to find out who's linking to your site... but anyway, see previous answers, this is not a problem.
------------
Q. "I suspect that a key part in this the hint that it may be if you link to something iffy in Googles interpretation then you get a black mark for effectively promoting a "naughty" (in bot terms of course !) site which is against Googles interest of course. If that site also links back to you it looks even more sus to Google when they examine your site and so the penalty may well increase even more."

A. Pretty much what I'm saying really, except my technique doesn't require the added complexity of tracking who links to sites that link back to them. That'd be a pain in the arse to track down!
-----------

There ya go. My 2 cents.

janeth · #8 (**permalink**) 12-11-2003, 05:17 PM

Hi jeffsnox,

It is a black or white issue either someone linking to you can or can not hurt your site.

To say it only hurts a little makes what Googleguy said wrong. You can not say he was right because he said it did not hurt when it really does hurt.

One of the three are wrog either Googleguy, Marissa Mayer or (Sorry Garrett) Garrett

#9 (**permalink**) 12-11-2003, 05:39 PM

Google gives me a headache.. just wish I wasn't so dependant on them. I dropped from 9 back down to near 100 again, and it's hard to know if it was the reciprocol links I put in there.. or if it's just that they want me to tweak my website every other day.

Don't they know I also have to produce, do the janitorial, do the designing.. do the paperwork.. do everything else besides updating my site too?? How often do they want you to tweak the sites anyway?

Maybe it's good to stay down awhile.. give me time to catch up.. and decide if I'm going to link to anybody that asks me to again..

How are we supposed to know what Google considers a spam website anyway?

Carrie <hoping it will post this time>

janeth · #10 (**permalink**) 12-11-2003, 05:43 PM

AS long as you only link to web sites with a pr1 or higher you should be ok

#11 (**permalink**) 12-11-2003, 06:13 PM

I read the interview. If a webpage or site is in trouble concerning links, then it should be ranked low on all keywords. Not so. I'm ranked well
for my 3 websites on the keyword filipina lady. However, on the keyword filipina ladies, I'm no where to be found. Why is that? If I'm following all the rules for the key word filiina lady for google and if all I do is change it to filipina ladies and make no other changes, why isn't my site ranked well on filipina ladies.

I didn't need all of my sites to be ranked well on one keyword, in this case filipina lady. So I did just what I said, I changed it to filipina ladies and nothing else and now my site disappears. Why?

That is why a lot of webmasters believe google is filtering out certain keywords to sell. For that matter, when you go to googlee and type in filipina ladies, the reults are garbage. Some sites in the top 20 have nothing to do with filipina ladies. So how can we believe it is just a link situation?

janeth · #12 (**permalink**) 12-11-2003, 06:21 PM

I think and I have read some where else maybe in some of Garrett's post that Google is looking at links with in your site if you use the asme word over and over to link to a page then Google looks down on this.

You may want to try and use the word less so Google does not see it as spam.

When your using it in links from one page to the next.

#13 (**permalink**) 12-11-2003, 06:29 PM

"If any of these people are using spam techniques, they're the reason your site no longer appears on Google"

This is pure stockholm syndrome, google spams their serps to no end with "Adwords" (spam) and wants to berate the webmasters..okay, thats all fine and dandy if you can get away with it, but I do find it sad that the webmaster community buys into this whole scam.

Adwords is the largest spammer on the planet.

cripchick52 · #14 (**permalink**) 12-11-2003, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garrett

But I have talked to several people who, like myself, are beginning to get the sense that the value of Search Engine Strategies isn't really there anymore, just because there's a sense of repetition in most of the sessions.

I'm glad you said this because it's the reason why I chose not to attend...well, that and the fact that I didn't want to go to Chicago in the winter! I'm cold enuff up here in Baltimore. I always thought the price of this conference to be a little steep. That's especially true if most of the information is what we're getting from Search Engine Watch and some other forums and blogs and from the search engine webmaster faq's anyway.

All this turmoil over Google...I for one am glad to hear that they are saying the old tried and true methods are the best way to improve your sites positions on SERPs. After an update in the spring, and I got clobbered, I decided not to stress over it anymore. With this November update, a couple of my sites are now buried in the results for some choice keywords, but rank well for others; a few sites stayed the same and others went up in results. My page rank on several sites increased however :-]

I think we all need to take the "expert" advice with a grain of salt. Remember it was the "experts" who told us to stuff the alt tags in the 90's. And imho, it's the unscrupulous "expert" seo marketers who cause the little seo gals like me so many headaches. Especially those that buy and sell links. No wonder Google got ticked off! Talk about manipulation of results! Sheesh...

That's my 2 cents for the evening :] ...Thanks for reporting back to all of us from the conference; your posts have been informative and I've enjoyed reading them......cripchick52

janeth · #15 (**permalink**) 12-11-2003, 06:47 PM

Hi cripchick52,
Your talking about buying and selling links but is that not what Yahoo does.

For $300.00 a year you can buy a link. The search results come from google

cripchick52 · #16 (**permalink**) 12-11-2003, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by janeth

Hi cripchick52,
Your talking about buying and selling links but is that not what Yahoo does.

For $300.00 a year you can buy a link. The search results come from google

Janeth, no I didn't mean the 300 bucks Yahoo! charges for reviewing your site with no guarantee of a directory listing...I meant some of those seo and traffic builder sites that sell text links on high PR sites and similar tactics. PM me and I'll send you url's of sites that do this.

#17 (**permalink**) 12-11-2003, 11:14 PM

Ok...so my site is listed on almost all the DS and WAHM directories. They post to the search engines. So i'm being penalized for this? What am I supposed to do, take all my listings down?

And I already HAVE paid google adwords..hasn't helped a darn bit!

I went from #1 to NO WHERE!

#18 (**permalink**) 12-11-2003, 11:30 PM

Back to 'who's linking to you and who you are linking to...'
Obviously you cannot control who links to you, but you most certainly can control who you are linking to... seems that statement by Marissa was totally aimed at reciprocation.
If you link to a spammy site and they're linking back to you you've closed the loop and sealed your sites fate thanks to their wrong doing...
Check out your partners site... email them and see if they too were removed from the top of the SERPs - that would be one way to assist in determining who the bad apple in your link cart is...

janeth · #19 (**permalink**) 12-11-2003, 11:39 PM

I would make sure all of them still had there pr's and wait until the end of the month befoer I started making any big changes.

Just because Google tried to threw it back on the web site does not mean that is whats going on