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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 11-18-2004, 09:08 AM
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Default Gauging Reactions To MSN Search

Last Thursday, MSN announced the official beta launch of their search engine. Although a preview had been available on their sandbox site, the launch marked the official unveiling of the company’s proprietary search technology to the general public. Reaction to what many view as Microsoft’s challenge to Google’s throne was swift.

From major publications like The New York Times, NPR, and thousands of blogs, it seemed everyone had a comment concerning MSN Search’s launch. As with most releases of this size and coverage, responses varied. However, a quick browse of some of the SEO forums finds the opinion on MSN Search generally positive.

The search engine audience’s response to MSN Search was also quick. On WebProWorld, a thread discussing the launch was filled with positives. Longtime poster Greeneagle said, “I am impressed! - They seem to have worked out some serious bugs (referring to the sandbox version)!”; while BStone shared this experience, “They are very responsive to feedback. I sent feedback about my site not being listed and a few hours later the bot deep scanned my site and it was listed the next day. Very impressive.”

On the WebmasterWorld forum, their MSN Search thread was spilt in two with 29 pages of responses. These reactions slid up and down the barometer with comments like “MSN’s results are junk” to others defending the relevancy of MSN Search’s results. One such defense came from a poster name Dvduval, who said, “I am very pleased with the results on the new search engine. One nice thing I have observed is there is a good assortment of both newer sites and older sites in the SERPS, while Google seems to be too weighted toward older sites.”

However, as observed by Ownerrim there may be a potential issue with some aspects of MSN: “The Microsoft SE is not particularly adept at excluding link schemes. In one niche area, I saw one fellow's sites, on the same subject matter; appear on the first four pages of the SERPs. And the content on nearly every one of these sites is nearly identical. If this is the best that MS can do, Google doesn't have to worry. MS can run as many butterfly commercials as they want--hype doesn't replace results.”

Owner’s comment about the repetitive site’s content may have been explained by Nacho Hernandez on the SearchEngineWatch forum’s thread concerning MSN’s launch. In responding to a post made about content being king in MSN’s eyes, Nacho said, “Words of wisdom. It seems that MSN Search (beta) is exactly what it loves the most, because the pages you pointed out (along with other examples I have tested) demonstrate that.” (That would also explain why this writer made MSN Search’s first page, something not true with Google.)

One of the more humorous “reactions” actually came from chief MSN competitor Google. On the day of MSN Search’s launch, Google announced the newly increased size of their search index. Google’s boast of over 8 billion pages eclipsed MSN’s expected 5 billion strong index (which would’ve beaten Google’s previous 4 billion plus).

One area of concern among some users was the appearance of MSN’s search results page. To some, the ads were a bit distracting. This was noticeable in Pleeker’s post at WMW, who commented on differentiating between results and ads, “Note to MSN Search Team: those are not "web results," and they're not the first listings your algorithm found in the index. Those are paid ads. The opaque "SPONSORED SITES" off to the far right isn't noticeable enough, and it's disingenuous to list those under the "Web Results" heading.” While poster Skipfactor is a little more direct; “...ditch the Yahoo ad scheme of ads nauseum: top, right, and bottom is just too cluttered. Do what the leader does when you're behind in the race.” This is referring to the method in which Google displays their ads.

A great deal of reaction in all forums had to do with where a person was ranked compared to their ranking on another search engines; those that had high rankings generally like MSN’s results, while those that did not rank well didn’t seem too impressed. However, most seem to welcome another, highly visible, search engine, if only because it will increase competition. This feeling is echoed by WMW poster PhraSEOlogy, who says, “I just think that we are at an exciting point in search engine history; MSN making inroads and Google being the dominant force (at present)… It will be interesting to see how things pan out in the long run. I for one, think that this is a great time for SEO's to explore and experiment.”
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Old 11-18-2004, 12:12 PM
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Default YES!

I LOVE the "Near Me" option on the MSN search. Just what the doctor ordered!! :)

I didn't get the "distracting ads" you mentioned... but then I'm firewall crazy. Maybe they were blocked?
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Old 11-18-2004, 12:51 PM
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Default

I've done some quick initial checks, and on the whole my results are well down on those returned on both Google and Yahoo, where we get on the first results page for most of my keywords / phrases.

Checking the results I noticed a common thread among most of those pushing our site off the first page - They were using descriptive file names and directory structures. A quick check on terms used in my personal site confirmed that the MSN engine puts a lot of weighting on the file / path names. I found items which don't show in Google / Yahoo appear in MSN just because of the directory and file naming used. This possibly explains why some newer sites are fairing better than older ones.

I guess I'll just have to bring forward our planned major site restructure...

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Old 11-18-2004, 01:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Allman
...They were using descriptive file names and directory structures...I guess I'll just have to bring forward our planned major site restructure...
I have a difficulty with this, and therefore with MSN's engine. How do file names and directory structure have anything to do with site relevancy, especially when compared to page content? I have the same problem with my site - very high rankings in Google and Yahoo! and nothing at all on MSN (though we have been spidered with the pages indexed).

Requiring sites to restructure simply because the file names aren't named to match content seems out of sinc with the needs of the surfers, and will rank sites that may not be nearly as relevant to the search terms entered.

I'm not at all impressed, and, frankly - given the probable weight this new engine may have on the market - I'm not at all happy, either.
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Old 11-18-2004, 01:26 PM
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Default MSN

They have too many sponsor ads. Screw MSN.
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Old 11-18-2004, 01:30 PM
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Default My thoughts...

I just did some quick searching and notice two blaring issues:

1. I searched for some local terms and this seemed to always sprout up: "This site is temporarily unavailable, please check back soon."

2. Which is more irony than anything: Type in "search engine" "(http://beta.search.msn.com/results.a...ine&FORM=QBMR2)" and Google comes in organically before MSN.
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Old 11-18-2004, 01:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dalghryn
Requiring sites to restructure simply because the file names aren't named to match content seems out of sinc with the needs of the surfers, and will rank sites that may not be nearly as relevant to the search terms entered....
My analysis is based on a very quick check, and may be incorrect, but it did produce very clear results on my test.

I've been planning to restructure our site to take advantage of keywords in directories / file names for quite a while, so this is just the 'shove' we need to get it done.

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Old 11-18-2004, 01:36 PM
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Default MSN Search

All I ever get is from the beta site is
"This site is temporarily unavailable, please check back soon."
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Old 11-18-2004, 01:36 PM
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The corporate site for my real job (not the link below) is doing great on MSN. Oddly enough our 4+ year site just disappeared from google recently and I am NOT HAPPY ABOUT THAT. So since the company I work for is a high-profile satellite internet provider and appears on page 1 of a MSN search for "satellite internet", but WAS on page 3-7 on Google (when we were appearing)... well I think Microsoft developers are doing something right.

Jim
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Old 11-18-2004, 02:40 PM
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Default Re: YES!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tish
I LOVE the "Near Me" option on the MSN search. Just what the doctor ordered!! :)

I didn't get the "distracting ads" you mentioned... but then I'm firewall crazy. Maybe they were blocked?
did your SERP look like this?



this is the result i got for searching cars. MSN's results page didn't look like this at first, so i'd say the ads were in a different location (or more obnoxious) when that comment was posted.

this version looks more like the standard SERP i'm used to seeing from other engines.
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Old 11-18-2004, 03:38 PM
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Default

Well,.. doesn't look too bad I guess,. :)

Though the layout needs some work. There is not enough white space between the results which makes the whole thing look a bit like one big block of text. And that makes it more difficult to scan through the results (if you´re a scanner like me you know what I mean, if you are a reader that reads everything (or most) in the page you probably won't have a problem with it.)

Going through some SERPs I noticed they place more emphasize on on-the-page factors. Some sites that I have in the top 30 or 40 of Google, and that just need more backlinks (more PR) to get up to the top10, rank in the top 10 of MSN.

I guess Google is still King of The Link Algorithm Technology.

As to the ads,.. there are an awful lot of ads in the results. I don't really understand why they do it. Blasting too many ads in peoples faces will result in developing algorithms in the searchers brains to ignore these ads. Google does a lot better job here. They post ads, but you don't feel like the whole purpose of the SERP is for you to click on the ads. I have this feeling with the MSN SERPs; Their organic results are just an excuse to place as many ads as possible.
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Old 11-18-2004, 06:44 PM
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Hi,

I checked several of my URLs on MSN, in particular two I have which are no1 and 2 on Google. One is doing the same in MSN whilst the other is in the index... only where?!!!

Oddly both use the same SEO techniques which would make me initially think that offsite elements where the cause. However it's the more senior site with far more IBLs that doesn't appear while the newer one is bang on.

Reviewing the list of competing sites, I did note that MSN appears to favour larger sites, certainly within the industries I studied. Could that be a strategic move designed to help the type of big network sites that MSN partners with - they rarely seem to be well placed in Google results, despite their high PR.

I also noted that when you click on settings there is a location setting. Mine showed as Winnipeg, Manitoba when I was viewing the site from Vancouver, BC. Whilst I appreciate that they might simply be tracking IPs back to the originating ISP, this a big country and it'd be quite a drive to get to any of those "near me" results! Did anyone else find this?

Just to save myself from getting a biased view from only looking at my own SERPs, I also tried using MSN to see if I could find some real information! I tried some awkward and ambiguous phrases to test it on like "buy new windows" and "MS" and to be fair some of the results were better than the same search in Google, but on the whole G still seemed slightly more informed in it's choice of results. One search that stands out is the comparison of everybody's favourite Google bomb, miserable failure, seems MS takes a dimmer view of US politicians than Google does!

A good try, and definately a step forwards for MS, but it'll take more than that to make me want to trade up my trusty Google toolbar!
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Old 11-18-2004, 06:55 PM
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Default It's Horrible

I typed in some keywords and the results it indexed were errors on web pages.

MSN is indexing Response.Write errors.

Yeah, that's really helpful.

Tested the same keywords on Google. Google doesn't index errors.

I've never used MSN to search for anything and it doesn't look like I'm going to change anytime soon.
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Old 11-18-2004, 07:00 PM
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I tested my site on the sandbox site and it pulled back very good results for me. However, when I check the actual site that is now running, it doesn't look that much different than Yahoo for the same keywords.
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Old 11-18-2004, 08:12 PM
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I love the new msn search. It finally puts everybody on the same playing field. It took me over 6 months to finally get over 600 of my 3,000+ pages indexed into google and none of them ranked very well despite the number of relavent inbound links and content. It got to the point where I thought the older sites will always win. Now comes along msn and in two days it has my entire site and even though I'm not number one at least the results are fair and subjective. Plus with MSNBOT constantly crawling my site and updating their index every 24 hours I get some time to play around and test in almost real time how my SEO tactics are working and adjust for when it finally goes live.
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Old 11-19-2004, 01:02 AM
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for every single search i try, i get "This site is temporarily unavailable, please check back soon"

i would love to see some results
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Old 11-19-2004, 01:16 AM
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ok, i tried again, results received and it looks good. got a positive result for our sites.

still not getting any joy from the "near me" search...
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Old 11-19-2004, 04:50 AM
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Here, you broke it:
"This site is temporarily unavailable, please check back soon."
I know its still beta, but im seeing this sentence pretty often. Any new info on when it will become public?
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Old 11-19-2004, 05:03 AM
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You have to love a search engine that gives you three of the top five positions for most keyphrases!
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Old 11-19-2004, 05:16 AM
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Simon, you're the lucky one, probably the only one around !!!
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Old 11-19-2004, 06:06 AM
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They seem to be going for content. Most of my pages are 500 words or more, and I check that there are 5 or 6 occurences of the keyphrase on each page. Seems to be exactly what they want.
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Old 11-19-2004, 06:14 AM
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so the