As I said above, just make sure you don't follow his first piece of advice about submitting only to categories with an editor - it creates more work for the editors and mean you wait longer.

CBP

Actually I didn't even think of that, but I'll try to (re)submit some of them, if not already accepted.
Thanks for the idea, Paul.

Another proper place, as already mentioned in this thread would be http://www.resource-zone.com/forum/
but the site is down right now as well as their "parrent" extremetechsupport.com.
Their IP 69.17.24.2 does not currently resolve either.

ronniethedodger said
This thread has focused on commercial sites. And I have been posting in a continuous stream so things might appear out of context. Sorry. If there is any bias it is that the non-commercial listings side of DMOZ has never been mentioned, and that is as important.

There were two points - firstly you have to question, logically, whether adding more sites to the 25,000 already in the web designer category yields a greater benefit to the directory than adding other sorts of sites so far underrepresented, whether that be community sites or niche industries difficult to find via other sources. With 25,000 already, could you use a directory to nail down what you are looking for? Or would a search engine be better at narrowing down the choices? The second is that there is not an institutional bias against commercial sites, just not a bias towards them either. Posters here, I gather, would love it if we gave priority to commercial sites (of theirs) because they think somehow they are losing money because of delays. But we have other priorities besides commercial sites, and in honesty they can be far more rewarding to list. Not least because no-one is going to come out with abuse and allegations. My rough guess is that I spend personally maybe 60% of my time on small-town commercial sites, 40% on non-commercial across the board but it seems to me that a much greater percentage of the non-commercial get listed because there are nowhere near the number of problems.

Every editor is free to pursue their own priorities when it comes to where in the Directory they edit. There are many editors who spend their entire time in commercial categories, many who wouldn't go near them. Some, like me, cover both but still have their preferences for what they would like to bring to the project.

daemon61 - no need to go to the forum. It seems you have been given far more specific feedback than most and the answer is to consider that very carefully before re-applying. Affiliations means all URLs you are associated with, and if you've only mentioned yacht-base then you haven't been complete (from this thread alone). If self-promotion is a concern, prove this wrong by applying for a different category where you can have no possible self-promoting interests. Etc, etc. Read category charters to make sure sample sites fit like a glove. Study site titles and descriptions to learn what is the right way (you will sometimes see the wrong way listed too - people make mistakes) so check several categories to get a feel for it. If you really are keen to be an editor, put your business hat on one side (you are only an employee after all) and pick something totally unrelated.

BTW http://dmoz.org/help/cats.html may help with the other question.

my experience is simply bad, In 1998 and few years after this directory was clear and really good.
Now its not representing any longer what´s good and new on the web. My newer and much better sites with advanced technology (all travel related online booking systems with high PR) never made it in while the "old" ones still hang on. After submitting the my 5 new sites two years ago they are not in but alot of garbage can be found which made it in instead.

Its now a useless and if they continue as they do - they will dissapear sooner or later.

brgds

Rudi

So in other words, you are trying to scam DMOZ to get more than one site listed for the same travel related company and you complain??? Have you actually read the guidleines on trying to do this?

BTW - if you are talking about the site in your signature, it might have been a good idea to make sure it was working properly when you submitted it - an editor found it "buggy", so deleted it.

CBP

Who told you about my hat?

__________________
WebProNews Videos

A Black one? ;)

Below is a copy of a letter that I sent to Google. I hope you all support it.

Dear Google Management,

I am aware that DMOZ has been under the fire of criticism. In reviewing this criticism, understanding the plight of the volunteers and also being frustrated with sites sitting in queues for close to two years, I have become aware of one fact. The fact is that DMOZ is under fire because Google places so much emphasis in page rank on the directory.

Since DMOZ, although a noble organization with noble intentions, is having problems keeping up with some categories, much less emphasis should be placed on the DMOZ directory in the Google algorithm. This would take the pressure off of DMOZ volunteers.

Another suggestion is that DMOZ move to a paid submission system for certain spammy categories. This would decrease the spam. If the submission cost were kept low, such as $5, then it would still be affordable to the multitude of start-up businesses in the struggling world economy.

And Google are interested in that because...? Google are but one end user of DMOZ data and how DMOZ operates as a directory is none of their business. If Google suggested it to DMOZ they would get the same reply as you - not a chance!

Apart from the social contract saying there won't be paid submissions, one of the other big stumbling blocks is who pays for the sites that are listed that are not submitted? - imagine the outcry due To that inequity!!!

I add more sites from seaching Google and other places than I do from the submitted sites pool.

CBP

Suggestions Offered For Future Posts within This DMOZ ODP Thread:

__________________
Maximilian
Maximum Beauty Products Supply Stores

The DMOZ system has become totally corrupt, with editors using their position to promote their own sites and keeping their competitors out of DMOZ. I've read the defenses that DMOZ editors have posted on their forum - but they are sorely lacking of any kind of legitimate defense. There is no excuse for what they are doing. DMOZ is known among webmasters as a "good ole boy club", run by a group of "editors" who have absolutely no concern about fairness whatsoever.

Back in 1999 and 2000 you could get a new site into DMOZ within six to eight weeks. Now it's impossible to get a site in - ever. Anyone who thinks differently is deceived. I have tried to get multiple sites into DMOZ over the last three years with no luck whatsoever. Each time I have found that the categories I was submitting to were being "edited" by one of my competitors.

I've read dozens and dozens of posts just like this one on the DMOZ forum, and each time they are flamed, mocked, and ridiculed by the DMOZ editors. They know this stuff is all true, yet they don't do anything about it. It's like a corrupt law enforcement agency where none of the staff members want to speak out due to fear of retribution. If one of the DMOZ editors tried to change any of this, they would be sent packing and they would lose control of their category - which might mean losing their website's number-one position. Then they would lose money. So basically, they are getting paid to keep their mouths shut.

I don't care if DMOZ lists any of my sites. I'm doing fine without DMOZ, and because of its internal corruption it is losing weight on the Internet. Someone needs to buy it and clean house before its name is totally ruined - which may be too late now.

__________________
Link Exchange

<quote deleted by flood6 because the post it refrenced was deleted...I'm leaving the second part of Max's post because we can never have too many forum rules reminders>

WPW FORUM RULES:
DO NOT Make Inappropriate or Offensive Posts (including swearing, prejudice, slander or deliberate insults/name-calling, negative remarks about fellow members) Even if this is your own personal opinion.

__________________
Maximilian
Maximum Beauty Products Supply Stores

Linkmaster - you seem to have a serious misunderstanding of what DMOZ is about. As pointed out above there are two lengthy threads linked above dealing with this issue.

If you have evidence of corruption, there are mechanisms for dealing with - please report it and it will be dealt with. Ranting and whining about a non-existent problem becasue our site is not listed or listable is not productive. Unsupportive innuendo only furthers the misunderstanding of what DMOZ is and how it works.

What was the response from DMOZ when you reported this via the appropriate channels?

You seem to be under the mistaken impression that DMOZ is some sort of free listing service for webmasters - it is not. Most sites submited to DMOZ do not get listed. If you want that kind of service, there are other Directories that provide that service.

DMOZ is not hard to get into. Plenty of advice was given in the two theads linked above.

DMOZ lists ~2000 sites a day, making it the fastest growing Directory. I do not see how you can reach the conclusion that " Now it's impossible to get a site in - ever." Just because a particular site is not listed yet or is not good enough to be listed, does not make it corrupt.

You also seem to be under the impression that DMOZ should be accountable to webmasters. It is not.

So why are you so upset????

All this because **YOUR** sevice expectations were not met and **YOUR** site(s) were not lsted or are not listable!!! DMOZ is the largest Directory out there (no other Directory comes close) and DMOZ is the fastest growing Directory out there (no other Diretory come close) .... does not look like being ruined to me...

<MOD HAT ON> - please read the froum rules that max pointed out. (MAX - do you want the relevant posts deleted?)

CBP

<MOD HAT ON> - the last few messages in this thread have been added to this thread from another, so apology as some things may be a little out of context.
Some messages have been deleted (NOT, by me) as they did not comply with forum rules.

CBP

Linkmaster - many of the sites in your "network" are probably not listable due to a lack of unique or useful content; affiliates; etc - thats not DMOZ corruption - thats the DMOZ guidelines!!! At least one of your sites is listed in DMOZ. I am not sure I found them all, but they were easy to idenitify. DMOZ guidelines, paraphrased, are something like: One business = one listing of one site unless an editor thinks they add unique value to a category. I hope you are not trying to scam DMOZ by getting multiple listing for your business spread across several sites?

Also, multiple sbmissions of sites and deeplinks from sites to multiple categories is spam and creates a lot of extra work for editors. Editors being kept busy deleting all this and not getting time to list sites is not corruption.

CBP

Greetings - CBP!

I'm fine with whatever you WPW Mods decide is best for the forums. Keep up the awesome job you guys are doing.

Cheers!
Max

__________________
Maximilian
Maximum Beauty Products Supply Stores

CBP, you know very well what you are telling us is not true. Let's check the quality of your editors, go to DMOZ.org, search for word porn, 6264 results are shown.

I clicked on the first 5 listing (1-5), all are small door way picture sites that are affiliate of maximumcash.com and get customers for that site.

I got tired after 5, go through all the 6264 and I can bet at least 95% will be this type of sites.


Let's talk about facts. One of the editors for DMOZ uses the name: *****mistress

1- Search for this name on google, it shows the same user name is advertising sites on different web sites with with telephone number 1-900-321-****

2- Search Google for the same telephone number. you will get a list of different url. mostly one page ad web sites.
Some of the Domains are:

Asian-sweet******.com
Black-phone-***.com
Sweetblack****.com
..............
..............

3- Search DMOZ.org for the same domains. You will see these domains are listed 4,7 and 3 times. Is really a one page ad web site, so important that has to be listed 7 times? Or has the editor spammed DMOZ to get listed 7 times?

4- The total links for these 3 sites is 14 on DMOZ, now multiply this number by 4000 that you mentioned as the number of sites that use DMOZ as their directory and you will get 56000 links for only the three mentioned web sites.

Not bad for so called little "VOLUNTEER" work.

Quality? unique? Volunteer? jap, and the pigs fly too.

gworld - here we go again - you are inventing problems. You need to go check your facts. Please read the DMOZ guidelines and you will see what I said are facts.

There is a difference between submitting to muliplte categories (against the guidelines) and editors choosing top list a site in muliple categories (within the gudielines).

Why do you continue to invent problems that do not exist?

If you are correct in our allegaions in the porn categories why are you posting them here? Nmerous times in this thread the link for reporting this has been given so this type of allegation can be dealth with. Why have you not done that? Ranting here does not help solve a problem, if it really exists.

CBP

You must be joking. I told you exactly how to search the DMOZ and find out the 5 first result (ALL FIVE or 100%) are just spam, affiliate site and your answer is:

There is no problem.

I told exactly and step by step, how to find out about editors corruption and how they are taking advantage of DMOZ to market their own 1 page ad site and even get it listed 7 times and your answer is:

There is no problem.

I wonder if you can you even imagine any situation, how ever impossible, that anything can be wrong with DMOZ? I have contacted DMOZ before, like many other critics of DMOZ but I never got any answer. I suppose it was you or some one like you who looked at the complain and said:

There is no problem.

I have never said that DMOZ does not have problems...
but I guess we will have to agree to diasgree... You can continue to have all these fanatsies in your head about the extent of what you perceive to be a problem (despite numerous and repeated attempts by many in this thread to point out to you the reality) and DMOZ will continue to list ~2000 sites a day that meet the guidlines.

CBP