Agreed...your energy IS better spent that way. If more people had this attitude, editors categories wouldn't ever get spammed, which would free up time for them to add actual sites.

Yeah and the stupid thing is that I used to be an editor on DMOZ about 4 years ago. I first tried to re-activated that and failed, then tried re-join and failed. I know of at least a few dozen people who had perfectly good websites rejected and I have (personally!) noted an increase in MLM-type entries and mirrored sites on DMOZ (i.e. sites where a page with same content is submitted twice, sites where a page with same content is submitted twice... get the idea!)

If you get yourself a good spider written, you can get hundreds of sites you want in your directory in seconds (or minutes), then you just spend visiting each site's homepage to check they are indeed a site suited for your directory. Then you get a wizz programmer to write some software that verifies all checked websites before adding them to your database. Frankly if one does their homework, one would discover that there is sufficient technology these to allow for computers to do the searching/collating/gathering data, and then "still" have a human site down to check entries. Okay you get a backlog of 1000s of sites in this manner. LOL, I got over 11 thousand entries for my directory still to check, but then again I am doing it all alone.

If I, on my own, can "human check" about 4000 sites in a space of about the last 10 weeks, then one wonders how long it would take someone like DMOZ to do it with their "thousands" of editors. Someone care to do the math?? And I have a very busy life, running six businesses myself and co-running 5 others with someone else.

Nathalie
Craft-Searcher.net

I'm sorry you don't believe that the "several moderators" opinions don't lend credence to the discussion. I personally have found "all several of them" demonstrating very high levels of tolerance towards the "attacks" being levied and rebuffing them with factual insight on how to make those individual experiences better.

I have absolutely no affiliation with DMOZ and find it rather hard to believe the childish whining and temper tantrums being thrown. Many people, mods and DMOZ editors, have made many efforts to provide solid factual information and suggestions in spite of the continuing juvenile whining.

If you wish to invite people do something with these threads, suggest they go back and carefully read ALL the good information thats already been provided. This continual whining and crying and ranting..."WAAAAAAA They won't list me! They're bad! I'm good! I deserve it!" is not only ridiculous and tiresome, It's counterproductive for everyone.

Dave

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Religious-Jewelry Blog - Deep Link Directory - Religious Jewelry

lol...sorry to rain on your parade Maximilian. Yes, I do edit for DMOZ.

The funny thing is I was in the same boat as most other folks....trying to get listed. The only difference is...I didn't take it so seriously (or personally).

When that didn't work, I applied to be an editor and was accepted. After adding ALL of my competitors to my category...I added my own site (NOT at the top as some have suggested).

I wonder if it would have worked out better if I sat around "bashing" DMOZ for rejecting me??!

The more I read in this thread the more it appears that it all boils down to the beautiful $ ...
On one side we have webmaster who submit their sites ( lol okay they do not do it for a glass of milk and cookies) and their client sites and expect to be indexed.
On the other side we have a big amount of editors who spend their time for 0,- $ ( lol not even the glass of milk and cookies ) and as such build a database which has with the usual search engine not a lot in common ...
So now we have the two major contradictory powers - this thread is the beautiful lightning which develops all over us - perhaps we can try to collect the energy of this thread and feed it into the ODP ...
Or we can keep on standing apart from each other and keep on bashing the ODP and all its editors ...
Perhaps the webmaster should try to drop the editor a glass of milk and cookies - and the editor should explain why he denies a web site ...
Just a thought.

And a good thought. If you stop and think for a moment, If noone ever tried to beat the system or bend the rules everyone would be a lot happier. I have just one question...what kind of cookies?

Dave

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Religious-Jewelry Blog - Deep Link Directory - Religious Jewelry

Hi all, my first post here...
I followed this thread up to the 7th page, and then I got tired of all those "my sex life sucks and my pet is ill because I didn't get a DMOZ listing for my (whatever)-selling site", so here are my 2 (euro)cents:
1. Open Source != free. period. OS is about "free speech", not "free beer", it's about people working together to give value to the masses (back to themselves, lol), not about some fools working and some guys receiving services (and $$) for nothing.
2. the "submit and forget" approach might not be optimal, but it's the best one available for now... any webmaster with more than 2 neurons in their head can search the access logs for editor.dmoz.org (or editors.dmoz.org, I don't remember very well) referers to see i their site got visited, so there is a way to know when to place a status request.
3. my last work made it to the first page on google for some of its search terms in about a month, without being listed in dmoz. I did submit it, got rejected because of non-unique content (I guess, all I got from the editor was a link to the guidelines, and I didn't bother to ask for more), but I didn't expect it to be accepted (had to try, though ;-) ). Most of the rants come from people not seeing their sites realistically: one should think "would I include this if it was someone else's site and I was the editor?" before complaining. And why complain at all, when there are lots of "free beer" directories out there?

This has been a great discussion, I have been lurking for a few days.
I am a DMOZ supporter and a new editor. I thought I would share some experiences.
I have been using dmoz for years. I signed up for chefmoz because I was holidaying in an area with no resturants listed. I decided I would eat out every day and list all the places I found and then add a few reviews. I got me thinking that I should sign up for dmoz and give a bit back. I had beening thinking about it for a while. So I applied about two months ago. The area I applied, and was accepted as an editor, was my work speciality. I do look after our company websites which could be listed in my dmoz area. I had submitted one of our sites and after 12 months it had not listed. I will admit there was a motive as an editor I could add the work website. But the bigger motive was getting the category right. It did not properly reflect the industry and had a mish mash of websites. I think if I got it organised with new sub-categories and better sites it would be a real valuable resource for the general public and the industry. So I really went into it with grand ideals etc.
I have worked with computers for over 10 years and I know my way around. But the first day I logged into dmoz I was lost. I clicked and poked around. It took a while to get use to it. The editors forum seems to have thousands of posts a day. I read all the rules and policies, but I didn't know where to start.
It seems that no one had edited my category for about 2 years. There were nearly 300 new submissions, and many sites sent by other editors.
To me, it seems dmoz (as an entity) wants to add as many sites as possible that has unique content. And that is the mantra - unique content. But as a new editor - do I delete the ones I do not want or do they go into unreviewed until later? My top editors didn't respond to my emails. I searched the forums and decided every editor has their own method and style.
My lofty ideals about making a great category resource started to rust as I realised the task set before me. 300 sites does not seem much but it is mind numbing. Most turned out to be dmoz spam or inappropriate (right off topic).
So this is how I spend my dmoz time.
I log in. Go straight to unreviewed. First site comes up. The submitted sites are in alphabetical order, I can not find how to put them in submitted order. If you have a site called "zzzzz time" this could be why your submission is being delayed - its the last one to be reviewed.
First site comes up and it is a summary. Who submitted, ip address, email address, title, description, any previous edits and any categories the site is already in. The dmoz system also has flags. Flags are notes that tell you if the site is spam, duplicate, recently expired or any note by another editor. So all those people buying expired domains that might have a dmoz entry - forget it - an editor would have to be blind to miss it. If it has expired and registered, dmoz system gives you options to search the whois etc.
So my first site review - I check dmoz and google for duplicate entries. I check the whois to see who owns the domain (a good way to find duplicates). I then go the the website to see what it is like. For me the things that rejects a submission is dupication (already in dmoz), deep (submitted link is deep link into site), inappropriate (non-english site or off topic), nothing unique. And the last one is the hard one. Nothing unique. And that seems to be a dmoz mantra - repeated again and again. And for a purpose: it helps with the editing. If the website is a reseller and is using someone elses database of parts - why listed it? The only thing unique is the domain name and to the owner/webmaster this is good enough reason to be listed. I have added resellers sites if they offer something unique - like a good faq, or new facts or info, forums etc. I think a lot of people forget when they submit you are asking for a human to review your website - it is a form of criticism. It is subjective. It is not perfect. It might not fit into the editors lofty ideals. We submit because it is in the webmasters handbook under how to make your site popular. It should be under - what your peers really think about your site. :-)
So I delete the submission because it is an affliate site with nothing unique - I have to type a reason and that is what I type. If I added a site - I also type the reason to help the next editor when I combust from monitor radiation.
If it is inappropriate I refer it to the appropriate category - which takes time.
Of the 300 submissions I have ploughed through, 60% were spam, 30% inappropriate, 5% maybes, and 5% approved. I added about 15 sites. My mind is numb. Some days I would walk away because the spam made me so angry or I could not tell if it was a good or bad site. Submit spammers are getting so clever - they hide the redirects, change the layouts but they just keep submitting. Not only is it taking more time to weed them out but it jades the editor, I know it does for me.
300 submissions took about 6 weeks, probably 75 hours work. And my category is a very minor, uncompetive one. I say a prayer at night for all those dmoz editors in a busy category.

I understand all the dmoz criticism and some of it is rightly placed. I think it is micro criticism and sweating the small stuff. No system is without flaws but the dmoz project should be looked at as a whole. Some categories are biased, understaffed, poorly edited. However as a whole, the good out weighs the bad and it is a good representation of the internet.

Thanks for sharing that, fifth! Welcome to WebProWorld.

It is a shame to hear the editors above you weren't more responsive. Search around the DMOZ forums, and see if you can find one of the Mentor threads. If that doesn't work, PM kctipton (I don't think he'll mind) and ask him if he can point you in the right direction for finding some guidance.

Thanks again.

__________________
SEO Firefox Extension | Free Link Development Tool | New SUSE Linux Users

Yahoo competes with Google & MSN. Who competes with DMOZ? They seem to be big headead !!

__________________
Tools For Creating Wealth Online: http://tinyurl.com/44mfr
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Yahoo, Google and MSN are businesses that are in competition.

DMOZ is a non-profit volunter run group.

Your point is?

CBP

In my opinion, it seems just like DMOZ when an actual answer is needed no answer is forthcoming.

I have noticed from the very begining that those championing DMOZ are only answering with either no substance glib replies and no actual facts, or ignoring difficult posts entirely.. Re: My comments earlier today.

It is very sad indeed.

Again, I have been lurking since the beginning and onlt posted for the first time today... It is amazing to me how many posts are streaming into this discussion with complaints in such a short time frame....

There are undeniably a lot of very unhappy people out there and one thing is making them unhappy. DMOZ.

I still do not quite understand the problem. Why should they list you? Why should I list you in MY directory? If I do not like your site and do not find it useful, then I see no reason to. Start your own directory, and you can list who or what you like.

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Simon - Biogas, Rauchgasanalysator and Rauchgasanalysegerät

Here is an example - http://www.splatsearch.com . Oh, look whos directory they are using! There are many sites like this. So if you have online bussiness, not getting to DMOZ is missing a lot of people and potential clients.

This kind of thing, in my opinion, is hurting a firm which isnt in DMOZ, and so cannot offer its product, as well as the buyer who bought the product. Possibly he could get better price, better service, better guarantee for product he just bought. But he didnt, because that site where he bought a product was one of the first applyed in DMOZ and so the other sites dealing with same product didnt have a chance because of not being unique. Its a problem, isnt it?

Its not problem in having directory and accepting and rejecting listings, the problem is how big reach to people DMOZ have.

Btw, try http://www.google.com/search?q=link:www.dmoz.org .
Strange results?

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Yacht Charter Croatia
Crewed yacht charter croatia

I am in no conflict with dmoz, but the above statement is pretty lame.

It is the same as saying the (media) news are made for users (viewers). The story and all involved doesn't have to be true and can favour one view, harming another.
The users won't complain, they have no idea of additional factors and will mostly swallow whatever is presented to them.

Does everyone forget what DMOZ is trying to do? "Help build the largest human-edited directory on the web." That being the case then surely sites that maybe are not unique in content, but nonetheless useful to their audience should be included? I have a site that i submitted in January. It is to a busy section of the directory so i have been patient. In nine months i have seen one entry into this category. So effectively of the thousands of sites submitted to this section in the last nine months, only one has been accepted? Come on now!!! My friend submitted his site which is identical except less visitors, less categories, less members, no help pages, no information pages etc etc and he was accepted in 2 months, the one that has been accepted over the past nine months.

I'm sorry, but i have to say that i am severly dismayed by DMOZ and to be fair i couldnt care less if they include my site or not now. I am getting 2-5 thousand unique a day from other sources. If the DMOZ editors decide in their heirachy that they will list my site then fine, but really, i will no longer lose any sleep over it!!

Their ambition, "Help build the largest human-edited directory on the web.", will never be met until they take out some of their more , shall we say "biased" editors who delete submissions because it is in competition with themselves.

Sorry to sound off folks, but after 9 months of seeing the apparant corruption in DMOZ i can not wait until someone overtakes them in the directory stakes. Not likely to happen for a while, but we can hope!!!

Well, maybe my english is bad or I dont know how to explain things:)
But the problem is much bigger than what you said now. The thing is there are 2 sites - www.yacht-base.com and www.marina-base.com . yacht-base is optimized version of marina-base with more quality content. Problem is that marina-base is listed in the category under the name yacht-base, while yacht-base is our primary site and marina-base is soon going to become totally new site about marinas. then we will have two sites that are different and full of quality content. Unfortunately, now we have two almost identical sites - with the wrong one being listed in the wrong place. That should sum up the whole story, i hope:) So then, i have a problem.
Whats the best way to settle this? My boss is worried that he will lose listing of marina base and a chance to list yacht-base, if we report this.
Oh yes, plus there is a landing page also in that category. So it is violation of DMOZ rules, but its not my fault, and I want to change that. Not the fault, but listings:)
Should I try and ask about this in forum? I would like to e-mail editor of that category, but i cant since there is no one. I know that category has parent editor, but that doesnt mean a thing to me when i cant reach any of them and explain situation in which ive found myself.

Finally im starting to understand editors job. It is much harder than i thought. Again, youve been very helpfull and informational, thanks!

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Yacht Charter Croatia
Crewed yacht charter croatia