Check with your ISP - they still up for me.

IF DMOZ was down there would be threads of glee at every SEO forum ... and I have not seen any.

CBP

"... human prejudices can factor into the approval process, something that is hard to overcome if you are considering submitting to a competitive category."

No kidding about the human prejudices! I have tried to get some of my websites into this absurd directory, and have come to the conclusion that the entire directory is being used to champion the casues of, and the pocketbooks of the higher editors in the clan. It's become a private directory for the sole benefit of a few select editors. They promote their own affiliate sites there, and their personal businesses as well. It's a joke at best.

Many good internet marketers with high integrity have tried to be editors, but every category is dominated by hierarchical editors that disagree with every submission and site approval of the new editors. Until the system changes, it is a useless and laughable activity to be listed there. If I have any listings left there it is a miracle. I never see it on my logs, so I assume they have knocked me out long ago.

Once a higher editor disagrees with a new editor's submissions, the new editor is deleted with no recourse. It is a sham and this type of activity goes on with impunity.

I implore the big search engines that use DMOZ to put pressure on the editorial staff to fix the problems, or threaten to drop the index altogether. That is the only way this dishonest mess will ever get fixed. They need to get some good editors to work on the index, category by category. There is money being made here somewhere, so that money needs to be withheld until they fix it for the better.

DMOZ is a disgrace at the current time.

__________________
Franklin Banker
W E B M A S T E R
http://bblmedia.com/

Check this out:

http://www.threadwatch.org/node/4310

Amazing how many people got sucked in by that! It was a hoax .... it was someone posting as Hutcheson just create a stir!!!

Here is his denial:
http://resource-zone.com/forum/showthread.php?t=41233

CBP

Sorry, it seemed really very real. Very plausible.
I guess it must express the felling out there.

I think it was "cbp" who told us were all labouring in the misunderstanding that DMOZ is a submission service. Well, I rebuilt my site some 9 months ago, then told DMOZ the new URLs so they could change the link to the new pages (which are, by the way, of exactly the same content, just different design and URL). Now, its been 9 months and DMOZ still links to the old pages. Can you tell me how on earth this benefits anyone? I would like to expect a reasonably quick response (even 3 months would do) when the information they list for my site is wrong. Such is my long-held disenchantment with them, that I fully expect them to just delete the pages anyway when the finally get round to updating the category.

Why would DMOZ want to bother changing the link if the content is still at the old pages?. You need to take the old pages down or put a redirect in place -- otherwise DMOZ has no way of knowing that you are not some sort of scammer trying to preted you own the old site and get them to change the links (I am sure you are not - but without a redirect in place, DMOZ has no way of knowing).

The solution to this is in YOUR hands - don't blame DMOZ.

CBP

This kind of reminds me when I was a kid at a party with a pinata and when it was broken open, free candy would go everywhere and kids would be all over the place scarfing it up like crazy.

Some kids were slow and wouldn't get any. They would pout or cry.

Of course there was always a mom that would take candy away from the other kids and give it to them.

DMOZ ain't nobody's momma! :)

Submit it and forget it.

I agree with the "Submit and Forget" line of thinking. But what good is a directory if it is biased and out of date? Both of these water down the results at best and render them utterly useless at worst. So again, what is the point of organized information that is narrowed, biased, out of date or simply not available anymore?

Of the 20+ sites I have submitted in the past two years only five have been added to the directory.

All of our clients are real businesses serving real customers, in person. We also have several non-profit clients who have not been added to the directory.

Submit it and forget it, sure. But we have decided our efforts are better invested into SEO and submission to industry specific directories. So forget about dmoz while you're at it.

__________________
Every journey begins with the fisrt step.

We're not just building websites…
We're building relationships!

Visit us www.dcvistudios.com

Hiya,

DMOZ isn't really important in a way it is a directory, you got a lot like JAYDE, ZEAL, LOOKSMART anyway.

But i will always advice anybody to submit its website on DMOZ. In one year i made a test, DMOZ and the other directories gave me 3000 MSN links and 1200 yahoo link without doing anything.

My PR changed from 0 to 3 in a year. Personnal site...

donaldb wrote Yes, I see. You don't see it there, and you think it is because I have failed to submit it, yes I see. You don't see it listed because it was rejected sometime after submitting it back in 2003, 2004 and 2005. At the time (03-04) we were the ONLY developer in our area with website development as the core and focus of our business. And as you well know it is not there, nor will it ever be there.

You have proved my point that having a good site, submitting to the correct area and waiting will not get you in. Oh yeah, and the index of NOT FOR WEBMASTERS.

And the notion that the directory is not there for webmasterS may be true, but honestly, how many average joe users are submitting sites to the index? Good sites? The only people that really know where a site should be listed is the owner/ webmaster.

So, lets say that for the sake of this post that webmasters should stop submitting their sites, I mean, it's not for webmaster according to cbp. Well then, who the heck is going to submit sites for review and incusion? NO ONE KNOWS ABOUT NEW SITES WHEN THEY ARE NEW! Heck, the average joe surffer is just now learning that they can get geo targted results from G. What on earth makes people think that this group of users should and is responsibile for submitting sites to DMOZ?

People can say what they want but MY experiences with DMOZ are MY reality.

__________________
Every journey begins with the fisrt step.

We're not just building websites…
We're building relationships!

Visit us www.dcvistudios.com

Editors go looking for sites! I edit a couple of very small categories and get very few submissions. The majority of the sites in those categories, I found and added.

slideri812, you got some good advice above - submit your site to the Regional category, in addition to the web design category. It’s allowed and a regional listing can be very helpful if you’re looking for local clients.

I tried several time in a year for my sites but till nothing to be added. And yill learn how to get sites enlisted :)

If you are talking about the sites in your signture:

1. Neither have been reviewed yet. When you resubmit (I tried several time in a year ) all you are doing is over writing the prvious submission with the new date, so you keep moving your site to the back of the list if the category editor decides to use the pool of suggested sites and sorts them by date (most do) - you have been putting yourself at a disadvantage.

2. As both sites are on the same/similar topic, did you read what you agreed to when you submitted: CBP

It goes back a long way cbp, but for the record, I can access DMOZ again (Thank god!).

It turns out that being on broadband 24/7, chances are the IP address that had been allocated to me by my ISP may have been blocked (because of someone else's actions, I do not know).

But thanks for your help and suggestions.

__________________
Deb Harrison
DVH Design
Essex Web Design

I also submitted my site (signature) back in November 2003, I believe. When it didn't appear a few months later, I followed the DMOZ guidlelines and posted on the board, etc. I did get a response from an editor who said something about it taking a bit longer, or similar - I can't remember exactly what. I replied, thanking her for her follow-up, and waited, and have ever since. Sometime about mid last year I resubmitted, figuring things were well past appearing by then, but still nothing. I can't find anyting wrong with the site, it's certainly not in a category that's overdone - ecotourism - and the service that we offer is not offered by virtually anyone else, as it's a specialty field with specialty knowledge. Our clients generally are very appreciative of it when they find us, and we have a very high conversion rate, so we must be what some people want. We have all the right things - emails, address, 800 number that gets answered etc. No broken links, spammy anything, and lots of good information. The thing that concerns me to a large degree is not jsut not getting in, but the complete lack of information as to why. If there is something that DMOZ requires of the site that we're not doing, we'd be happy to either do it, or in the slim chance that it's something we don't want to do, then accept that. But just not having any idea is very frustrating.

We know we offer a useful and unique service to people looking for our expertise, and don't understand why we're not a good fit for DMOZ.

__________________
Nature and wildlife tours and travel

Does anyone use DMOZ to search for sites anymore or is it a just a webmaster’s requisite task on a to do list? This dinosaur would've been extinct three years ago if PR 9 were properly halved to reflect its dusty cobwebs. Think of the myriad search alternatives that have been developed since DMOZ was relevant - Google, delicious, other tagging sites, even MSN search to name a few - and the DMOZ begins to looks as untended and overgrown as the DMZ that separates Korea from North Korea. ;)

People have been predicting DMOZ's demise for a long time - and that's fine. Plenty of people use it as a resource to find information when the SEs fail. Webmasters use it to gain exposure or to flesh out their own website's directories. There will always be some people who find an open, human edited directory useful, there will always be editors who enjoy editing for their own reasons.

The day DMOZ "dies" is the day I get the most recent RDF dump and maintain my own version.

__________________
SEO Firefox Extension | Free Link Development Tool | New SUSE Linux Users

The last time I did a detailed analysis of traffic to one of my sites, about 0.5% of it came from DMOZ or a clone (eg Google Directory) -- that equated as to about 150 visitors a week .... as they site is in a deep category, that measns to me that a lot of poeple a using DMOZ.

CBP

It hasn't been reviewed yet

CBP

I submitted a site a year ago, it was few pages for my Church, we just wanted people to be able to find it. No spam here. I submitted once, heard nothing. After months I emailed the person in charge of that heading. No answer, ever.

I have heard a lot of people say that Communism would have been a wonderful idea IF people would have just done their part. Well they don't.

I wish I had discovered this forum before. It could have prevented my making several mistakes in trying to get my site listing corrected.

On the one hand, there is some relief in that I am not alone in my frustrations with DMOZ.

On the other hand, I am disappointed to discover that there is no appeal process, no opportunity to discuss issues. You have to take the hand you are dealt.

In my case, my site *is* listed. Sort of.

Originally, ASAP Checks (asapchecks.com) was included in DMOZ. About 2 years ago, we set up a separate website for the small Canadian subsidiary at ASAP Cheques (asap-cheques.com), and submitted the URL with a note to the editor asking if they supported separate listings in a situation like ours.

However, instead of a reply or a separate listing, they changed ASAP Checks to point to asap-cheques.com. So now we get quite a few U.S. visitors ending up at our Canadian site.

Since then, I have tried several times to get this corrected. At first, I tried to get the site description changed as well. But the last 2 attempts have been strictly to have the existing ASAP Checks listing point to the correct asapchecks.com. I even used my e-mail address from the Canadian domain to give the editor an opportunity to verify that I am associated with the domain that is currently listed.

Based on what I have read here, I think that this will have been my last attempt. The directory that wishes to be accurate will likely continue to send people looking for checks to a Canadian site.

Whatchagonnado <sigh>

Les

BUT, www.asapchecks.com is listed!!! and www.asap-cheques.com is nothing more than a mirror - thats called trying to spam and scam DMOZ!

CBP

Uhhhhhhh dude...they're actually not mirrored. They look very much alike (note to Les...make the layouts look different in terms of colour, and it might make your point clearer), but they're not actually mirrored sites.

Stack the logos side by side. The Canadian logo is a slightly different colour.

The #2 point in the header is different.

And the US site offers Quicktax forms (the Canadian one doesn't).

They've got different 800 numbers too.

Mirrors are two sites containing identical content (e.g. adamwebdesign.com and adamwebdesign.ca). This clearly isn't the case here.

And according to your search, Les is right. ASAP-Cheques is listed, but ASAPChecks is not:

http://search.dmoz.org/cgi-bin/searc...ap-cheques.com
http://search.dmoz.org/cgi-bin/searc...asapchecks.com

Now...they're obviously the same company, with two separately-run divisions. The thing is that the pricing and products are for two different markets, but it's the same company. No one would dispute that.

Buuuuuuut...that in itself doesn't stop sites from being listed for their multiple country affiliations in DMOZ (e.g. Coca-Cola has a site for its .com and its .com.au listed).

Which leads to my question:

Let's say our boy Les decides to redo his Canadian site...makes it look different, clearly distinguishes it and its products from the US site, etc. It's obviously being operated as a separate division, and if Les had the presence of mind to register a .ca with a similar name and a different look and feel, you guys would probably never be able to tell.

Would that be enough to convince an editor that both sites have some merit?

__________________
Toronto Web Design | Search Engine Friendly, Standards-Compliant Layouts | Walk on my Path (my blog)

asapchecks.com is listed here:
http://www.dmoz.org/Business/Publish...and_Financial/

asap-cheques.com is not listed (what is showing in the search results is no longer in the category)....it was only recently deleted.

The content of the two sites are mirrors according to DMOZ guidelines (not duplicates as Google would consider it). Trying to get both listed is spam.

CBP

A little late, but I too would like to voice my irritation with the variable quality (and ethics) of DMOZ's editors. I submitted my site www.osidealive.com to DMOZ (http://dmoz.org/Regional/North_Ameri...s/O/Oceanside/)
back in 2004 and again last November and have never received any response whatsoever... The category is absolutely sparse so I don't think there's a backlog issue... more of just an editor who signed on and then decided it wasn't worth his time.

Is there any other way to get listed in DMOZ? I submitted my site, an online calendar for families (www.familytimeplanner.com) over a year ago, and have not received any notifications. A couple of months ago I offered to be an editor, and instantly (<2 hours) got a reply that I was not qualified because I had the motivation that I wanted my site listed. While maybe others can't, I can recognize the responsibility of being a site editor means that I must list competitors to my site. It's not like internet users wouldn't find them anyway.

I've heard of corrupt, or inactive editors. Is there an escalation process to circumvent them?

Thank you for any suggestions. I know it is "just another backlink", but some sites and users do consider it 'authoritative' and hence I would like to get included.

Have a Great Day!

Does anyone use DMOZ anymore? Man I stopped a long time ago.

__________________
Competition post bad info about you online? Bury it!
Submit your link to our directory

The point is it doesn't matter what webmasters, site owners, and SEO-types think about DMOZ, what matters is that potential customers, investors, and partners use it to make judgments about your business. They do the same with the Page Ranking that Google suppresses until you pay for AdWords and with the absolutely worthless Alexa Ranking.

These people don't know any better, they think they are conducting proper due diligence before making a decision whether to do business with you. It's not their fault as all three, Google, Alexa, and DMOZ have done an excellent job of raising themselves to the status of being "authorities" and useful measurement tools.

It's time all site owners are made aware of the power these three hold over the success or failure of their businesses.

If the success or failure of any online business is dependant on a FREE listing in DMOZ, a FREE ranking in Google or a FREE traffic rank from Alexa, then they should not be in business or change the business model. Do not blame DMOZ, Google or Alexa for your failure.

CBP

CBP, you're missing the point. No online business should depend only on traffic from Google and DMOZ to succeed. The problem is the detrimental effects of not being listed by DMOZ and poor rankings by Google and Alexa, rankings over which the site owner has no control and, particularly in the case of worthless Alexa, totally unsubstantiated.

We're not listed in DMOZ, yet we continue to sell more online than nearly all of our DMOZ listed competitors. DMOZ listings don't mean much. Finding quality sites to obtain links from means a lot more.

Most webmasters that I talk to either don't know what Alexa is or know it's useless. There are very few that are truly fooled into thinking it's an absolute measure of a site's worth or even much of an indicator.

Poor rankings in Google can be detrimental yes, but DMOZ doesn't have much of anything to do with that. Sure, it's some links. But DMOZ and it's mirrors aren't sites targeted to your topic, so the value is very limited. Targeted pages at times, but not a targeted site.

DMOZ holds the keys to DMOZ, not the rest of the internet.

Google holds the keys to Google, but most sites that really build quality content get more traffic from inbound links on related sites and in forums than they ever will from search engines.

It's not up to any of them to cater to you. It's up to you to build quality content that they want to put in front of users - and that holds true for all sources. Links from other sites, DMOZ and Google all want to give users quality content. Build it around what people are looking for and the visitors will come, regardless of source.

Brian.

__________________
ToolBarn.com, an Internet Retailer Top 500 and Inc. 500 Company | Tool Parts | Pet Supplies

just for your knowledge, we have not submitted many times. We have submitted a total of 2 times in 2 years.

i hope that editors have time to review a site, and complete things within one year.

DMOZ is becoming all about, oh find an editor that you know or can get on board, and that is the ONLY way to get your listing there.

Not really a democratic way.

It should be about Content, quality, and how important sites are in those category that they apply.

Back in 2004 I was an editor for DMOZ for a few months until they terminated me. I never knew why I was kicked out, but I can tell you that while I was an editor, everything appeared ethical, the meta editors were very helpful. From what I saw, DMOZ is a very good organization, the only fault is that they do not disclose why editors are terminated. It is like the CIA, information is on a "need to know" basis. I enjoyed my few months at DMOZ and admire the organization.

__________________
Sincerely, Jacob
SEO Houston
Everything looks better in Safari

I totally agree with your "success or failure" comment.

Forget about Dmoz - too many categories without editors, too many editors that don't have the time to do the job they volunteered for, and I won't touch the ethics area. Best advice I've seen here is submit it and forget it.

__________________
Rick - Professional pool table felt and billiard supplies.
The Pool Table Felt Pros

Agree with Dartman -

It's now been 4-1/2 since I've submitted 3 different sites to three different categories. Always heard from them that it would be "soon". Still nothing...

__________________
http://www.german-toasting-glasses.com
http://www.deutscheshaus.cc

My problem with DMOZ is not that it's bias, but the fact that google puts so much stock in it.

__________________
Sonoma County Travel Related Information.
Sonoma County Sonoma California

3.5 years and still not listed. Applied to be an editor in a different, but related catagory on the advice of two of the editors in the resource zone, but I was rejected there also. Perhaps DMOZ just has too many editors.

Being listed in DMOZ gives you high quality one way links from other directory sites that use the DMOZ data, including Google. I've noticed, this Really helps in the SERPS.

__________________
kjohnson
www.discount-leather.net
Pat yourself on the back before they kick you in the a__

Yea you know why. They all quit..........

I used to be one its not worth the problems.

Suggest you signup for your local city listings and try it.

I havn't used DMOZ in a very long time!

__________________
You Can Email 5,000 Fresh New Leads Every 2 Days http://moneylistpro.com

I got into DMOZ for one of my sites in about two weeks. This was about a month ago. THey put me in a different category than I had requested but it was still a valid category.

I have not gotten any traffic from the link though in a month. Is it too soon to expect anything or is the link more about Pagerank than traffic?

Steve

__________________
www.BathGems.com
www.fireclaimlaw.com www.ecoesq.com

Bathgems, as other directories that use DMOZ update, that will give you a lot of new one way links to your site. It should give you an advantage in the SERPS. I wouldn't expect results immediately, nor would I expect to get direct traffic from DMOZ, but the SE's use directories and links as a basis for popularity and relevance. That's what frustrates me about waiting over three years with no entrace time in site and PPC bills that keep on rising.

__________________
kjohnson
www.discount-leather.net
Pat yourself on the back before they kick you in the a__

Alright, I am starting to see directories that mirror the DMOZ category structure showing my listing. My question is why do these other directories exist if they are simply copying the DMOZ data? It is not like DMOZ was getting so much traffic that someone should come by and try to eat their lunch. At least not enough traffic to have people click through the links. I am not getting any traffic.

I know you said that this is about pagerank and relevence more than traffic but what is in it for DMOZ and these other directories if there is little traffic?

Steve

__________________
www.BathGems.com
www.fireclaimlaw.com www.ecoesq.com

DMOZ is fixed, get your IBLS correct and Submit to Yahoo and MSN, I like Submit + its got good middle level directories, but for god sake there is to much OLD literature out there toughting DMOZ, ITS FIXED forget.

Thanks for this info.

cyanide edit: signature removed

So I had a very lively (and informative) discussion about site submissions going with a number of DMOZ editors in their forum, touched a nerve regarding their "Social Contract with the Web Community" and one of the administrators takes it upon himself to close the thread and ban me from posting.

http://resource-zone.com/forum/showthread.php?t=43888

http://resource-zone.com/forum/showthread.php?t=43858

You know, I wouldn't waste any time at all with DMOZ except for the fact that site owners, webmasters, and SEO-types know that, rightly or wrongly, many potential customers, investors, and partners, factor a DMOZ listing into their decision-making process as to whether or not do business with a site. Not being listed, unfortunately, is a negative yet the coneheads running DMOZ don't get it and, worse, don't care.

Than again, judging by some of the stories in this and other forums regarding unethical practices, competitors denying listings, etc., maybe they do get it.

I've always wondered about the DMOZ partnerships with Netscape and AOL, anyway. What's that all about?

This thread spans quite a period of time. Its an intersting read as to the evolution of some site owners displeasure with the infamous "Open Directory".

Personally I have had little luck getting listing however, I do submit my sites. I've read their guidelines a dozen times over the years and still I manage about a 10% success rate in getting listed... and even then it sometimes has taken more than a year.

So, having said that...

Does anyone have any "real" advice on how to successfully get listed in DMOZ...that is something more than simply following their guidelines (which i have done many times) and without being bed partners with a long time admin?

And "ThrashMangler", is it really fixed... and if so to what end. Reading this thread, I am led to believe it doesn't provide much in the way of traffic and many sites do very well in organic search without it?

Maybe i apply and see if i get accepted... lol.

SD

__________________
WebFoot Creative - Website Design, Marketing and SEO.
Debt Help USA | Bankruptcy USA - For Help with Debt and Bankruptcy.

From what I understand, DMOZ was owned by Netscape when AOL bought out Netscape (I know, it is sooo long ago), and the relationship is that of "patron" or "sponsor"... (described as a system where someone in a powerful position (the Patron) offers handouts in return for support).

As you can imagine, DMOZ keeps a half-dozen or so hot Sun servers very busy, and someone has to buy and administer them, right?

I imagine there is some sort of support in the form of software development, personnel administration, and legal from salaried employees.

As for the actual benefit to AOL? Both the ODP and AOL claim that AOL simply uses the ODP data for their search engines... but how exactly they use it is unknown.

The fact is that few of the people participating in this forum actually use directories to find anything... directories exist for the most part, only because they influences search engines, which is why we submit to them.

The Dmoz directory, as has been so elequently stated by so many... is "particularly" bad. If you have ever actually attempted to use it to find what you are looking for.. then you know just how bad!

What Dmoz has to offer is next to useless for many subjects... and the hierarchical identification of subcategories defies logic at times, with many subjects clearly having a rightful place within an already existing category... yet simply appearing in a category or subcategory of their own.

The directory is rampant with sites that have multiple listings and links from Dmoz... in fact i read somewhere a while back that stated Wikipedia had over 6,000!!!

Mean while, judging from what i've read here and elsewhere, perfectly good sites are being denied inclusion... ???

Today, most any good search engine will not only provide you with everything to be found on the topic in Dmoz (or any other directory)... if you define your search intelligently the results most often will list the most authoritative and useful sites (based on your search input) near or at the top of the listings.

I know there are those that will say I'm nuts, buts its my 2 pennies worth of opinion and I'm sticking to it.

Yes, i do on occassion use a directory when researching a subject that makes it otherwise difficult for the search engine algorithms to differentiate between commerce and spam, and the actual intellectual information i may be looking for. But it is seldom... and even less likely that i fare any better than i do by simply applying my query to a variety of different search engines...

There are afterall a number of different search properties out there that have there own unique take on how best to rank search results.

Here is a perfect quote from a thread at WMW that supports many of the comments and bitches about Dmoz made in this thread and others I had read...

"I used to be a volunteer editor for another directory (i.e. not Dmoz) until a senior editor disallowed my addition of the Berkshire Hathaway website because it was "not high quality". The design certainly sucks, but the content (a lot of it written by Warren Buffet) is invaluable. I have given up involvement in directories since."

"Add to my own experience stories like the 'corrupt dmoz editor' stories and other peoples experiences, it is clear to me that directories are a way of gaming search engines and nothing more."

"Webmasters who want traffic are forced to pay attention to them until the search engines improve: another thread suggested Dmoz mirrors are being dropped from google... so it is happenning."
SD

;-))~~~~~~~~~~

Ps... By the way RJ, i read your entire ODP thread and although i do agree with you an many of the points you mentioned... you were relentlessly critical, agitating, argumentative and not terribly productive... and in my opinion you were completely missing their point.

If i had been the admin, the thread would also have been closed... but man, banning you the way they did was a bit harsh don't you think... lol.

"Ray, when every single respondent claims that something IS working, doing exactly what it is supposed to, and YOU claim that "we all" agree it's NOT working, the veriest idiot could see that you're not listening.

Go back, read the replies, read them as many times as it takes until you understand them. I think it'll take you at least a week, so I've closed your posting privileges until then. But if that's not long enough for you to achieve understanding, take as much time as you need. Then, and only then, you're welcome to come back and apologize for wholesale misrepresentation.

At that point, and not before then, you're welcome to enter any of the many genuine dialogues in this forum."

Haha... that is just plain funny with a capital "F"!

Come on Ray, admit it... you really weren't listening to them were you... lol.

__________________
WebFoot Creative - Website Design, Marketing and SEO.
Debt Help USA | Bankruptcy USA - For Help with Debt and Bankruptcy.

This is news that the Open Directory Project is not quick? Responsive? Fair? I have submitted dozens of sites in the correct category, only to have them all languish. I have never gotten a reply either way on whether my sites have been accepted. Fortunately, I submit to the other directories and just the fact that my sites exist mean that they eventually show up in AOL.

stretch dog -
"relentlessly critical, agitating, argumentative" - you bet. That forum is the only way to communicate with them and I can guarantee you there are many, many frustrated site owners and webmasters that feel the same way.

After all, what is a forum for? Note that the guy who banned me (the biggest bloviator of them all) didn't cite any abusive behavior on my part. It was for what I was saying, not how I said it.

I have to admit, I did violate one of their guidelines:

"In particular, the following topics may not be discussed:

Discussion of the ways in which ODP runs itself."

In other words, "We don't allow criticism". What kind of organization is that, anyway?

My statement (the one that really hit home) that they all agreed the site submission process is broken was right on the mark. Every one of them complained about the overwhelming number and quality of submissions and/or they really preferred to not work on submissions but, rather, only on adding sites they find.

So who wasn't listening?