For the sake of a font......

[wenwilder]

I have to admit it..........I completely.....and totally......despise sites that can not make a decision!

One's that keep you guessing as to what font color, size, and style they are going to pick next.

You read through the site and by the time you are done.....a WHOLE bottle of headache medicine is NOT going to take a way your headache and eye strain.

You are terrified to click on any link on sites such as these because you just KNOW, without a doubt, that it's either going to be the same or worse!

And to top it all off, they don't realize that combining italics and bold is.....well....it's.....annoying! Who ever thought of that concept should be forced to read page after page after page of text that is italicized and bolded.

I am convinced that people who create such sites are truly afraid of commitment! They will never decide on one color, one size, italics, bold, or what t-shirt to wear tomorrow. And one can only hope that tomorrow, when I awaken, I will see the errors of my ways and edit this post. ;)

[jdiben]

A big peeve of mine is when ordinary text is made to look like a link. Text on a website shouldn't be underlined unless it is a link. If someone hands me a printout of something with important words or sentences underlined thats wonderfull but on a website it is just confusing.

[wclew]

On the opposite side of that coin, I don't like sites that make links look like ordinary text. Links should be underlined and an offsetting color, hopefully blue. Sites like these force you to place your mouse over the word before you can tell if it's a link or not, when it should be obvious.

[rdrunna]

Hi all!

If consistency is the best manor, than what is the font to use and when do you really know when to change the font or size. Any help on this?

Thanks

[janeth]

I have to agree it is like printing amateur all over your website.
Choosing the right font for your website is very important because it affects the way your reader will see the page and the ability for him/her to read the page.


Some font are easer to read than others.

I think the best font is Verdana.

The body of the font makes it the easiest to read, even at a small size.

I also think it looks professional.
at 10pt

[Alan J]

In response to members posts I would just like to say:

Wenwilder - I don't agree about what you say about italics - this is preferable than using colours as, other than headings, it may indicate they are links. When they are not it is this that is annoying!

Wclew - I suspect that link text that has not been highlighted in any way is done to fool the search engines - i.e. a link is put there simply to strengthen the text - you will probably find that it is a key word/phrase that the webmaster is trying to optimise and that the page it links to is not specifically about that key phrase. The webmaster therefore does not want the reader to see it. Somebody correct me if they know of any other reason for doing it!

Janeth - I couldn't agree more. Verdana at 10pt is very professional and is my preferred font and size.

[alienzhavelanded]

Funny that I ran into this post. Over the weekend I revamped my site, changing the font to one I thought looked the best. Once I was done, I realized that many Win 95/98 machines didnt come with the font I'd selected, so anyone without it were seeing it in Times New Roman at a crappy size. Oops LOL

So how did I fix it? Well..for those of you new to design...CSS ROCKS! Learn it, live it, love it. You'll wonder why you ever did it another way LOL Those of you who have been at it a while, know what I'm talking about! Using it I was able to choose my main font, and a second font and size for anyone who didnt have the first one. This ensured the site was displayed consistently the right way. Woohoo!

Fonts should be the same across your website, with little variation except where you may want to emphasize, etc. They should be:

1. Clear and legible. If they look crappy, then don't use them.
2. Used with CSS if you want flexible control. (Plus you don't have to edit each page!)
3. Used wisely with the colors of the site itself. Don't burn my retinas with a multicolored layout and font for example. Your site should be pleasing to the eye, not damaging!
4. Standard types supported by most browsers. That great custom font you downloaded won't work unless I have it too.

I'd say my biggest peeve on fonts is the designers who think having it change size or type when you hover over a link is cool. It's not, it looks like hell...try a different line of work.

Anyways..my 50 cents worth...(The price went up-twice!)

The Martian

[minstrel]

Originally Posted by alienzhavelanded

Over the weekend I revamped my site, changing the font to one I thought looked the best. Once I was done, I realized that many Win 95/98 machines didn't come with the font I'd selected, so anyone without it were seeing it in Times New Roman at a crappy size. So how did I fix it? Well..for those of you new to design...CSS ROCKS! (snip)Using it I was able to choose my main font, and a second font and size for anyone who didn't have the first one. This ensured the site was displayed consistently the right way.

Not that I'm trying to argue against using CSS but if for some reason you prefer not to you don't need it to specify alternate fonts. You can do it in HTML by specifying, for example, <BASEFONT SIZE=5 FACE="Arial, Verdana, Lucida Sans, Courier New, Comic Sans MS"> or <FONT FACE="Arial, Verdana, Lucida Sans, Courier New, Comic Sans MS">. The page will then be viewed in whatever font the visitor has on his/her computer, in order of priority reading left to right. If none of the fonts specified are available on the vistor's computer, the page will be displayed in whatever is the default font, so the advice to specify at least one common font and make sure that your page looks at least presentable in that font is still pertinent.


I have a suspicion that older browsers may not support this but then again they probably don't support CSS either...

[minstrel]

Originally Posted by wenwilder

I have to admit it..........I completely.....and totally......despise sites that can not make a decision!

One's that keep you guessing as to what font color, size, and style they are going to pick next.

You read through the site and by the time you are done.....a WHOLE bottle of headache medicine is NOT going to take a way your headache and eye strain.

You are terrified to click on any link on sites such as these because you just KNOW, without a doubt, that it's either going to be the same or worse!

(snip) etc.

My first thought was "HOT DANG... this is the purdiest message I ever seen in these here forums"... then I said to my self, "Self... you've been away from the city WAYYYYY too long..."

(Dueling Banjos heard faintly in the background)

(While we're on the subject, why is it called "Dueling Banjos" when it's actually one banjo and a guitar?)

(Maybe I just need more sleep...)

(Hey - why won't this forum let me make an exclamation mark?)

[minstrel]

Originally Posted by rdrunna

what is the font to use and when do you really know when to change the font or size?

My all time favorite font is Arial... second choice Verdana... third choice: anything that looks like it was created by Druids :-)

I'm currently working on a website for my son's heavy metal band, Tainted Shade (remember that name: if any of my sons makes it big, I want at least 10% of the take for (1) the thousands of dollars I've spent on equipment, and (2) compensation for enduring all the practicing) -- think Druids with humongous swords, or many of the characters from Lord of the Rings :-)

[wenwilder]

Originally Posted by minstrel

My first thought was "HOT DANG... this is the purdiest message I ever seen in these here forums"... then I said to my self, "Self... you've been away from the city WAYYYYY too long..."

(Dueling Banjos heard faintly in the background)

(While we're on the subject, why is it called "Dueling Banjos" when it's actually one banjo and a guitar?)

Minstrel you don't realize just how appropriate that comment is! Considering the initial post was written by someone sitting in the middle of hicksville! ;)

[wenwilder]

Font usage, one of my favorite subjects. I enjoy it almost as much as color theory. :)

Anyway, a very very good rule of thumb, is never use more than four fonts in anything! There is no hard or fast rule that says you can't use six, seven, or twenty fonts in one document. But just because you can does not mean that you should!

You can use one font for the heading, one for body text, one for subheadings, and......generally you don't need a fourth.

Italics or bolding should be reserved for headings, and only used to add small amounts of emphasis. Combining the two techniques can overpower a page and overpower the reader.

Bold text is like a magnet for our eyes, we're drawn to it, and generally notice it first. To much bolding can make your text/site/document resemble a chocolate chip cookie! While online confectioner sales are sky rocketing as we speak, it is not recommended that non-food sites appear that way. Bold text is best used in headings, captions, logos or sometimes at the start of a paragraph as a stylistic device.

Italics is recommended over bolding to prevent the chocolate chip appearance in a site. It shows emphasis without being overpowering. It blends in with the non-italicised text more smoothly and doesn't assault the eye's.

Consistency and readability are very important to good design! If all else fails, go back to the basics!

Working with fonts is a lot like working with CAPS. Online using capital letters is akin to shouting. And there is NO font that looks best in all capital letters. There are three times to use capital letters in any document: Acronyms, abbreviations, and short headings. When using different font sizes, types, colors, etc. remember, that while you might enjoy it and find it 'neat' it could be the one thing that chases suspects away. ;)

[poab]

Hi all,

Fascinating thread, very interested to hear people's opinions.Just thought I'd add my own...

Just to clarify, a font is a computer file that sits on your hard drive. A type face is a design for a collection of glyphs (alphabetic and analphabetic). So verdana and times new roman are type faces, not fonts.

Using italics online is daft unless you're above 14pt. aliased or not the resolution of the screen doesn't match print and the type loses all character. Obviously the same applies to oblique type.

Never underline anything unless you have to. Link or otherwise. The human eye doesn't read letters in a word, it recognises the shape of a word. Lowercase is easier to read than uppercase because the lowercase alphabet contains ascenders and descenders providing a distinct variety of shapes. Underlining type kills either the descenders of a word, or, if the leading is increased, the ascenders of the line below.

There is a hard and fast rule that says you can't use 20 type faces on a site. You get 16 variations, no more and preferably less. But that doesn't mean 16 different type faces. So if I had the body of my copy in 10pt verdana, with links in 10pt verdana coloured blue, and a title in 12pt verdana, and footnotes in 10pt verdana shaded grey, that counts as four.

When you're deciding on a type face the most important thing is how it reads. A detective novel is supposed to be fast paced, and exciting, it has tight leading to encourage the reader to read in that manner and as such requires a no nonsense type face, with average ascenders and descenders. A poem on the other hand is ususally slow, and each line should be pondered, so the leading is loose and thus there's more room for a creative type face. That said with the problems of font selection in html you're stuck with arial, helvetica, times (or times new roman), verdana and if you're lucky georgia. Arial is a rip-off helvetica, helvetica was very popular in the 70's and as such, will look dated for atleast another 20 years. Times is too common place. Therefore verdana (how come janeth never seems to be wrong?) and georgia are the most obvious (but not the only) choices.

Whilst I've certainly seen some sites that look dreadfull, some of them aren't through a lack of commitment. A great number of designers blend type faces well (I'm not really one of them). I think a lot of the time people try and emulate how someone's done something, and mess it up because they don't know why the descisions were made as they were.

I could go on all day, but I'll start a fight, so that's all I've got to say.

cheers.

[mikmik]

Just thought that I'd pass this along about "getting your font across", it is a link to PCMag's tips section and explains 'embedding' fonts in html:http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,4149,1309279,00.asp .

Minstrel wrote

(While we're on the subject, why is it called "Dueling Banjos" when it's actually one banjo and a guitar?)

and I offer this for consideration: When you're an Hillbilly, anything with 6 strings is considerred a banjo - but wait! - hillbillies (plus moonshine for good measure) can't count and they're not even BLOND!

[minstrel]

Originally Posted by mikmik

Minstrel wrote

and I offer this for consideration: When you're an Hillbilly, anything with 6 strings is considered a banjo - but wait! - hillbillies (plus moonshine for good measure) can't count and they're not even BLOND/e!

Also, the "standard" banjo has 4 strings - the 5-string banjo was added in the 20th century, I believe. I will grant you that it's possible many guitars in hillbilly homes may have less than the standard 6 strings, though... :-)

[PuppyGumDrop]

Well as I type this I have a choice of font colour and font formatting.

I did not realise that when I typed in a certain font of MY CHOICE for MY website that others saw it not as I had intended.

If you do not like a sites design or font either don't go back or offer them some constructive encouraging feedback instead of complaining.

[alienzhavelanded]

Minstrel said: Not that I'm trying to argue against using CSS but if for some reason you prefer not to you don't need it to specify alternate fonts.

Very true Mr.Minstrel, I should've clarified that. I happened to be using the CSS file for other things too, so it was a natural way to correct the problem! You can indeed embed your alternate fonts in the html code itself. Thanks and happy coding.

The Martian

[wenwilder]

Originally Posted by poab

Just to clarify, a font is a computer file that sits on your hard drive. A type face is a design for a collection of glyphs (alphabetic and analphabetic). So verdana and times new roman are type faces, not fonts.

Thank you poab for sharing that information! I never truly noticed that they used a different font for detective books and poetry, I do notice it now though. I actually went back through some of my favorite books and compared, it was really interesting research! Thanks.

[Sualdam]

Originally Posted by minstrel

if any of my sons makes it big, I want at least 10% of the take for (1) the thousands of dollars I've spent on equipment, and (2) compensation for enduring all the practicing) -- think Druids with humongous swords, or many of the characters from Lord of the Rings :-)

Or a decent retirement home, maybe? Not that crooked one on 60 minutes. ;)

[minstrel]

Originally Posted by Sualdam

Or a decent retirement home, maybe? Not that crooked one on 60 minutes. ;)

"I'll be good..." - Grandpa Simpson

[atimmins]

Or Type Faces as the case my be. I recently read an article (do not recall where), which discussed the use of fonts. According to the research done Veranda is your best bet followed by Arial, as for size 10 pt. is well read by both.

As for my pet peeve, I hate sites that use small or hard to read fonts. Of course it seems everytime this happens, when I tell IE to view it in the largest setting the font size itself doesn't change. Very inconsiderate of the programmer to think they know what size I should their page in better than I. If I have to change my resolution to read a site or move closer to the monitor, I'm leaving the site!