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Graphics & Design Discussion Forum Post your graphics design questions/comments/ideas in here. Ask questions, post tutorials, discuss trends and best practices. Sub-forum for website accessibility and usability.

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Old 10-13-2003, 09:03 AM
iainrstewart iainrstewart is offline
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Default JavaScript for navigation useability/W3C questions

Dear Forum,

This is my first post to site design/review. I am not a professional web designer/master but I have had some training in web design (HTML & CSS). Up to about 2 to 3 years ago, I knew nothing about computers and then I acquired Scottish Vocational Qualifications (Level 2 - Basic) in Word, Excel and Access, along with the European Computer Driving Licence. The web design course was a follow up. On the web course, each student had to have a personal project and I decided to use the web to express my feelings and experiences as a carer for my elderly mother. My site sits at www.geocities.com/excarex/index.html. It is plain and simple, and to many people it will no doubt appear bland, but its reason for existing is clearly stated on the home page. A lot of sites are far more colourful but the creators use web creation programmes. Excarex is hand coded and at the outset I did not have any experience in graphics creation.

There are seven main pages with one page having twelve sub-pages. I hope that someone can advise me on the necessary coding required to make the following changes to the navigation, which would facilitate easier access to current sub-pages and aid the addition of sub-pages to other main pages.

At present the CNA page (carnat.html) has twelve sub-pages. I want to be able to mouseover the CNA page name button and three rows of four buttons each ie the sub-pages carnat 1-12 will slide into view. Each of those will then be mouseovers, which will activate the sub-pages as new windows with the main letter jumping to the corresponding point. The sub-pages will be as at present but opposite the present “main letter” button there will have to be a “CNA Top” button which would close the new window but return the main letter to the top.

I would also like to have on either side of each window a group of four buttons sitting about halfway down, consisting of Top; Page Up; Page Down; End which would always return to that position, when vertical scrolling. These new buttons would have added to them onClick events, as the present buttons also need to make the buttons act like buttons when pressed. This would necessitate that all pages content between the top and bottom navigation bars will have to go into a table with the first row’s first and last cells rowspan=”100%”. The width of the first and last cells would be set to the width of the buttons in pixels, but I have my doubts as to whether W3C will find fault with that as they are at present finding fault with some attributes of my elements. I am undecided as to whether there should be a graphic which would be under a repeat-y in those cells, and the sliding four-button bar as a separate item from the table contents, or that just the sliding bar should be the cells’ contents. I am also thinking in terms of increased white space on each page. I don’t really want to change the basic design. I created the site with the specific intent of saying something. I feel a more flashy site design would, detract from it.

I feel sure that the above will require JavaScript, and I would appreciate any advice with regard to where I would find the necessary code. There are so many script sites, and I could spend ages looking on the web. I cannot afford my own computer and consequently have to use my local library, where the maximum booking time is three hours. I believe that one should be able to open an empty notepad and create the JavaScript from scratch, but I don’t know enough, and I accept the words of the author David Flanagan in his book “javascript: The Definitive Guide, 4th Edition” that JavaScript is not the simple scripting language that it is sometimes made out to be, and can be equal to and greater in complexity than the accepted languages.

I would also appreciate answers to the following questions:
s
1. In submitting my index page to W3C HTML validation, I find that their explanations seem a bit difficult to understand. My understanding is that where a file is linked to a stylesheet, then the DTD has to be strict. Where is my error?
2. Why will W3C not allow the anchor name for return to the page top to be immediately after the opening body element?
3. Why will they not allow the br before and after the hr above and below the navigational buttons? I don’t want the loss of vertical space here. I have a 1x1 pixel transparent gif saved and I suppose that I could put that in with width 100% and adjust the height accordingly, but I have read that that is said to be bad practice.

My stylesheet passes CSS validation, but again they have me puzzled when they tell me that I have no colour to my background-colour in the declaration for the body selector. What do they mean?

I recently posted my first two letters into the September archives in the topic “How Much Text Is Too Much Text?

I would have put this post into site design, but it is closed to new posts.

I trust that someone among you can help.

My regards,

Iain R Stewart.


Dear Forum,

I think that I possibly misread the pages last Saturday in thinking that site design was closed.

Regards,

Iain R Stewart.
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Old 10-13-2003, 12:39 PM
carbonize carbonize is offline
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The type of menu you want can be found at http://www.dynamicdrive.com. Just remember that these scripts are not always cross browser compatiable and you will still need standard text links for people who have javascript disabled or their browser does not support it. There is also a program by SoThink called DHTML Menues that will make the javascript for you and I have found this programs scripts to be very cross browser compatiable.

As for your questions.
1 - You do not have to use a trict doctype when using an external stylesheet, You can use any doctype.

2 - Not sure on that one.

3 - To add space to a HR try using inline CSS like <hr style="padding 5px;"> or if that doesn't work try margin instead of padding.
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Old 10-21-2003, 10:22 AM
iainrstewart iainrstewart is offline
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Default Site design - excarex

Hi Carbonise,

Thanks for your answer. I will take a look at the sites you suggest. Regarding standard text links and JavaScript being on or off, one wonders just how many people actually go into Tools/Internet Options and switch it off. There is a forum on Webproworld on the subject, which I have only browsed through, but it looks interesting.

On doctypes I have read that there are only three basic types, strict, transitional and frameset. If you wish to have the html checked by w3c then there has to be a DTD so that their validation knows the standard to which the page has been built. I have also read that so many of the html4.01 elements are strict DTD, and that is why I chose it.

I think though, as I have posted in my reply to Drummin, that placing certain elements within

tags seems to be the answer. So if I place the
within

tags then w3c will, like the anchor tag problem, cease to see their position as an error. Hopefully, I will not have to consider playing around with divs or your suggestion of CSS inline.

Iain R Stewart
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Old 10-21-2003, 12:45 PM
carbonize carbonize is offline
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As doctypes go there are 3 basic types, strict, frameset, transitional as you said. BUT you als have the HTML/XHTML type variations andf then whether or not you want the browsers to stick strictly to the rules for that doctype (with URI or without).
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Old 10-21-2003, 11:20 PM
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minstrel minstrel is offline
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Default Re: JavaScript for navigation useability/W3C questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by iainrstewart
I decided to use the web to express my feelings and experiences as a carer for my elderly mother. My site sits at http://www.geocities.com/excarex/index.html.
Can you check that link? When I click on it, I get a "page not found" error...
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Old 10-22-2003, 06:56 AM
carbonize carbonize is offline
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Yahoo is having problems at the moment and geocities is part of yahoo. That may be the problem.
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