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Graphics & Design Discussion Forum Post your graphics design questions/comments/ideas in here. Ask questions, post tutorials, discuss trends and best practices. Sub-forum for website accessibility and usability.

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  #51 (permalink)  
Old 03-28-2004, 07:05 PM
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Default Re: Here again!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Webnauts
Radical changes of focus in a GUI environment are extremely disorienting to blind users who are navigating by screen reader, and thus can be considered discrimination against the visually impaired.

Opening a link in a new window also breaks the back' button on the browser, preventing back-tracking in navigation.
Surely this is a shortcoming in the screen reader not necesarrily the web design ?

I feel quite strongly about providing good access for as many people as possible but when will the programmme and browser (and screenreader) coders finally start realising that all we do is code in HTML and accepted standards. The way a programme renders it should be addressed for accessibility purposes. It makes much more sense to have a browser that is more flexible (i.e can change font size, font color, strip our javascript and intelligently replace with normal Href etc. etc.) then it is for the web builders to having to create different versions ?

If you are visually impaired but like to read a small print newspaper, you would use magnifying glass instead of suing the newspaper.. Use a tool that works. What is in this day an age that everything is seen as discrimination and has to be sued about ? Let's just all be reasonable. I cannot imagine that many websites ON PURPOSE would prevent people with disablilities to view or use their site.

And if someone needs sueing it is the screen reader or browser coder for not providing access to standard html content in a way suitable for most.
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  #52 (permalink)  
Old 04-29-2004, 06:46 PM
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Default Re: Accessibility in Forums

Quote:
Originally Posted by Narasinha
Quote:
Originally Posted by computermark
Links in your forum open new windows.
This brings up another problem that I've been thinking about. The forum on Webnauts.net, as forums on nerly all other sites, is software designed by someone to freely distribute. Let's face it, most of us can't take the time to write our own forum program. The problem is that I haven't seen a forum program that promotes itself as complying with accessibility standards. Maybe that's a project we could get going? I know Perl, but not PHP, but I am willing to learn!

Best Regards,
Narasinha
Why, I am working on such a thing :D It's my little pet project. Currently I am still working on finishing the HTML/CSS and then I will need to optimise it. The final part will be the PHP/MySQL.

It is incredibly easy to alter the look of the site through the CSS (all the design is done by CSS) and it uses a tableless design.

You can check out it's progress here. And yes, I know there is still a lot of work to be done.

Unfortunately I have exams coming up so I have had to postpone further development for a while. I should start doing more work around the end of June.
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  #53 (permalink)  
Old 05-02-2004, 11:22 AM
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Default GREAT WORK!

Splinter congradulations. Excellent work!
I hope I will be able to buy your software.
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  #54 (permalink)  
Old 05-25-2004, 07:10 PM
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Default Accessability for disabled users

Hello Webnauts and all,

Not to be a "Man for all seasons" but I find myself agreeing with all sides here. I created and maintain a site for a publishing company. http://www.grantbooks.com

The site successfully utilizes a lot of Javascript (which I love) for the navagation, shopping cart, etc... When a glitch does crop up, I figure it out and correct it as soon as I possibly can.

I will be entirley redesigning this web site using CSS thanks to the information posted by Veteran splinter I am completely sold on his reasons for designing a site with CSS. It has accessibility and compatability simply not achived with HTML.

However I completely understand the other side of this equasion. Unless you come up against a certain problem, you will never understand why or how to go about fixing it. For example, I am the webmistress for a publisher of illustrated fantasy, science fiction and horror books. It certainly never occured to me that we had visually impaired customers! These disabled customers would let me know how distressed they were at my design by emailing me scathing letters ripping me a new one! Needless to say that got my attention.

I want to redesign the site so the user can have the control over the font size, text color and background color. Until that happens I need a temporary solution that I'm hoping Webnauts or someone can help me with. I need a quick fix for enlarging the text. I know browsers are equiped with the ability to make text larger or smaller but you'd be surprised how many users don't know that. I have tried various Javascript methods without much success. My page is heavily laden with Javascript so adding another causes unforseen problems.

My next point has to do with web design companies both small and large. Many of us got into web design by accident. I am primarily an artist who started using the computer back in 1991 to do graphic design for the purposes publishing a magazine. This of course led to computer art,video editing, and web design.

I put up my first web page back in 1995 to showcase my fantasy art paintings. At that time accessibility and usability was not the issue that it is today. Artists like myself were free to commit all kinds of coding atrocities that have had to be unlearned in order to progress.

Naturally the time it took to learn proper web design infringed on my time for painting and caused my primary purpose to fall by the wayside.... Not to mention the damage done by having my can glued to this chair for the past 13 years!

My point is that we have all approached web design from various angles. For many years artists have had the visual advantages and programmers have had the technical advantage. We are each trying to learn the others' craft and in doing so mistakes are made and toes get stepped on.

Yes, it is important to expand your knowledge and stay up to date if you are responsible for a business site, but for a personal or experimental site it may be necessary to sacrifice some usability in the name of art. This is by no means an excuse! It is by experimentation that artists and programmers come together to find solutions for eachothers visions. What used to be a vast chasm in web development is now a mere gap. By making the effort to accomodate disabled users and web novices we make ourselves better designers. However this does take time.

Anyway...my train of thought is derailing now and I just want to conclude with this thought: I don't think that any career has ever brought so many different people together and overlapped into personal lives as much as the job of a web designer/developer. For whatever reason that brought us to this point, the desire for the best possible solution is what we have in common.

Mik (Michaela)
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I killed and ate my inner child...tastes like chicken.
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  #55 (permalink)  
Old 05-26-2004, 05:30 AM
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Default CSS Switcher

I think you might find a solution here: http://www.mcu.org.uk/articles/styleswitcher.php

Some more reading here: http://www.alistapart.com/articles/phpswitch/
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  #56 (permalink)  
Old 08-07-2004, 09:47 PM
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Default Don't open new windows (tutorial reviced)

Don't open new windows (tutorial revised)

Actually you should not force links to open in a new window or popups (such as with the "target" attribute or with JavaScript).

As you might know, JavaScript is not supported by all browsers and some users disable it. When JavaScript is used, it should not be relied upon.
In such cases you will disable your visitor to access your content.

You should avoid as far as possible implementing JavaScript, to avoid running risks on complications on the end users machines, or while goverment and other employees are required to disable this feature, for security or other reasons. Also there is a number of users who are very concerned about security issues and disable this feature too.

The issue here is not only concerning users disabling JavaScript in their browsers. How many do so? 8%?

What about cell phone users? How about sight impaired users? For the ones who when changing the current window or popping up new windows can be very disoriented, while they cannot see that this has happened. And how much percent are they?

The usability Jakob Nielsen say's about this:

Quote:
JavaScript in Links.

Links are the Web's basic building blocks, and users' ability to understand them and to use various browser features correctly is key to enhancing their online skills.

Links that don't behave as expected undermine users' understanding of their own system. A link should be a simple hypertext reference that replaces the current page with new content. Users hate unwarranted pop-up windows. When they want the destination to appear in a new page, they can use their browser's "open in new window" command -- assuming, of course, that the link is not a piece of code that interferes with the browser’s standard behavior.

Users deserve to control their own destiny. Computers that behave consistently empower people by letting them use their own tools and wield them accurately.
Source: http://www.useit.com/alertbox/20021223.html


Another fact is, that if you markup with XHTML Strict, the "target=_blank" is not supported!

If you absolutely must open a link in a new window, explicitly warn the user with a clear indication that the page will open in a different window. Provide a title attribute on the anchor tag with a description indicating that the link opens a new window; for example:

If you do so, keep in mind that targeting a link to open in a new window violates the W3C/WAI Web Content Accessibility Guidelines [1], and (if you're in the United States or other country with comparable anti-discrimination legislation) is quite possibly illegal under federal civil rights law.

Radical changes of focus in a GUI environment are extremely disorienting to blind users who are navigating by screen reader, and thus can be considered discrimination against the visually impaired.

- Opening a link in a new window also breaks the back' button on the browser, preventing back-tracking in navigation;

- It also bypasses the tabbed navigation in Galeon and Mozilla, irritating users of that feature;

- If your user wants to open the link in a new window, he or she can do so quite easily with most browsers; there is no need to force the issue;

- It's about leaving the user the freedom to navigate in the way that works best for him or her;

- It's not unusual for a designer never to have thought about such issues; that's why we have the WCAG to point out to us things we might otherwise overlook. Or?


After all do you want to build an accessible pop-up window? Then add the code below within the head tags of your HTML document. (Script source: http://www.accessify.com)

Code:
<script type="text/javascript"> 
var newWindow = null; 

function closeWin(){ 
if (newWindow != null){ 
if(!newWindow.closed) 
newWindow.close(); 
} 
} 

function popUpWin(url, type, strWidth, strHeight){ 

closeWin(); 

if (type == "fullScreen"){ 

strWidth = screen.availWidth - 10; 
strHeight = screen.availHeight - 160; 
} 

var tools=""; 
if (type == "standard" || type == "fullScreen") tools = "resizable,toolbar=yes,location=yes,scrollbars=yes,menubar=yes,width="+strWidth+",height="+strHeight+",top=0,left=0"; 
if (type == "console") tools = "resizable,toolbar=no,location=no,scrollbars=no,width="+strWidth+",height="+strHeight+",left=0,top=0"; 
newWindow = window.open(url, 'newWin', tools); 
newWindow.focus(); 
} 
</script>
Then add your link in the body of your document as below:

Example see here: http://www.webnauts.net/popup.html - Test it disabling JavaScript to see how it works!


Further reading:

Not opening new windows: http://diveintoaccessibility.org/day...w_windows.html
Use interim solutions: http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG10/#gl-interim-accessibility <http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG10/
Opening a link in a new window: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/...2Apr/0100.html

---
Notice: This article is written by John S. Britsios, founder and owner of the Webnauts Net and may be reproduced in a website, e-zine, CD-ROM, book, magazine, etc. so long as his name is included in full, including a link back to his website.
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  #57 (permalink)  
Old 04-19-2006, 03:55 PM
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Default

Quote:
If you do so, keep in mind that targeting a link to open in a new window violates the W3C/WAI Web Content Accessibility Guidelines [1], and (if you're in the United States or other country with comparable anti-discrimination legislation) is quite possibly illegal under federal civil rights law.
I ask again, where the heck is that kind of link deemed illegal? People should not be claiming new window links are illegal--they are not illegal. It is at the webmaster's discretion whether or not to use new window links.
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  #58 (permalink)  
Old 06-04-2006, 08:46 PM
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by thiefware
Quote:
If you do so, keep in mind that targeting a link to open in a new window violates the W3C/WAI Web Content Accessibility Guidelines [1], and (if you're in the United States or other country with comparable anti-discrimination legislation) is quite possibly illegal under federal civil rights law.
I ask again, where the heck is that kind of link deemed illegal? People should not be claiming new window links are illegal--they are not illegal. It is at the webmaster's discretion whether or not to use new window links.
Yes, it is at the webmaster's discretion, just as having wheelchair accessible doors at your place of business is at your discretion. The problem arises when someone with special needs has a desire to access your services. Can you meet their needs? U.S. Federal legislation mandates that government web sites meet accessibility requirements.

But this doesn't apply to regular commercial web sites. Or does it? the legal results have been going both ways. Check out the CNet article Blind patrons sue Target for site inaccessibility.

As the article states:
Quote:
This is just the latest in a series of lawsuits filed related to Web accessibility for the blind. Goldstein represented the NFB in a case against America Online that ended in a 2000 settlement that led to better Web service for the blind, he said. And in August 2004, Priceline.com and Ramada.com agreed to make their Web pages easier to navigate for the blind and visually impaired as part of a settlement with New York Attorney General Eliot Spitzer.

But soon after, a federal appeals court ruled that Web publishers are not required to comply with the Americans with Disabilities Act in a case filed by an advocacy group for the blind asking Southwest Airlines to redesign its Web site.
So, yes, it has gone both ways in court. But why should accessibility need to be legislated? Isn't it just the right thing to do on several levels? More people are able to efffectively use the site, and it shows the community that you are a morally responsible organization.
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