Free MS Downloads every developer must have

[AlanMCSD]

These are help files for Java/VB script amoung others. Has indexed search etc. I use them all the time. You can download them for free from microsoft at: http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/d...displaylang=en


<Mod edit to comply with Forun Rules - Syren>

[OSFan]

That's just Microsoft getting you to use THEIR technology, why use JavaScript developed by Netscape, when you can use Microsoft JScript!

What next? JScript.NET requiring a 20MB Dll to run it? Wouldn't surprise me ...

[vfaulkner]

TWEAK UI
http://download.com.com/3000-2341-28...ml?tag=lst-0-1

[carbonize]

Has Microsoft ever contributed anything worthwhile to web development?

Marquee tag - Annoying and best avoided.

Page Transitions - {{Shudder}}

VBscript - Only IE supports it and, as far as I can see, only script kiddies use it to try and spread viruses.

Styled Scrollbars - Probably the only reasonably good thing they ever contributed.

vfaulkner while TweakUI is an excellent program that every Windows user should have I fail to see it's relevance to web development.

[vfaulkner]

Sorry, Carb!
I read the post wrong. :-g
The program is still a good freebie for Windows...

[starrwriter]

Originally Posted by carbonize

Has Microsoft ever contributed anything worthwhile to web development?

How about Internet Explorer, which buried the opposition?

[carbonize]

Internet Explorer is the bain of Web Designers lives, it encourages sloppy HTML, sloppy CSS, and sloppy javascript as it happily corrects the errors for them. And as for burying the opposotion IE has long since fallen to the wayside. IE6's CSS support is lacking and IE is no longer being developed. Mozilla and Opera have now both so far in advance of IE that MS may as well give up.

[OSFan]

Internet Explorer is not a development tool.

Maybe you could see it like it is, it's the way NOT to develop something, but other than that, it's a browser.

Frontpage however is a development tool, and is commercial.

Did people volunarily download Internet Explorer, or when they booted their PC the first time, was it just there? You then get used to it, 1 year later, a new major build is available, you then download it, simply because you're used to Internet Explorer, and you don't really know what else is out there.

This is how it buries the "opposition".

If your PC came with Mozilla, Netscape and Internet Explorer, and not one was forced upon you, you'd probably expect an even split?

[Sualdam]

And if you DID have an even split, you'd also expect infinitely more incompatibility issues.

And we might all still be using text only.

If you imagine a situation: let's say, we start the Internet all over again.

What would happen?

So, you have a stack of people competing to be the number 1 browser vendor. Depending on all kinds of forces and issues - consistency/compatibility being one of them - someone pulls away from the pack.

Well that's what happened, isn't it? Except it was the hated Microsoft who did it.

What you DON'T get (#1) is a bunch of competitors sitting around trying to make sure they don't outsell anyone else.

What you DON'T get (#2) is a bunch of people not trying to make money out of it.

[OSFan]

My point was that Internet Explorer has only come above the competition because of the way its forced upon Microsoft Windows Users. Those users can't even view a list of files without it using Internet Explorer. You can, with a lot of work, remove the whole Internet Explorer integration and Internet Explorer too, but it's not an ideal thing to do.

Microsoft didn't add any great new technologies, they corrupted what was there, Java, Java Script, HTML, and distributed it starting with Windows 98 as default, integrated into the OS. When I ran Windows 95, I ran netscape. In Windows98, it didn't seem feasible to the people who owned the PC to download another browser, when IE was so integrated and big.

I visit websites, not for their latest Technical use, but to see information, maybe interact with a java applet on rare occassions. So if people writing webpages stuck to using HTML code as defined (would you write a C program using your own syntax and keywords, instead of those in a standard?) in the standards, there would be no compattibility issue for your standard internet browsing. Yes, Things like ActiveX may be great, and if there is something you want to use it with, you're going to need Internet Explorer, but thats a special case, and that is Microsoft adding new technology, instead of corrupting another.

[minstrel]

Originally Posted by OSFan

My point was that Internet Explorer has only come above the competition because of the way its forced upon Microsoft Windows Users.

I don't use IE because it's "forced" on me... I use it because I prefer it. Using Windows doesn't prevent me from using another browser - in fact, I do use others, but only to check compatibility.

Microsoft didn't add any great new technologies, they corrupted what was there, Java, Java Script, HTML, and distributed it starting with Windows 98 as default, integrated into the OS. When I ran Windows 95, I ran netscape. In Windows98, it didn't seem feasible to the people who owned the PC to download another browser, when IE was so integrated and big.

Debatable... I was originally a Netscape user... I didn't stop using Netscape because IE was forced on me... I stopped using it because somewhere around v4.x it became a piece of garbage...

there would be no compatibility issue for your standard internet browsing.

I don't know about that... we'd have to rid the world of AOL for a start...

[OSFan]

I don't hate Microsoft ;-).

I use their products, Windows 95, Windows 98, Windows 2000, Windows XP. I've used all them, but Windows 98 and Windows ME began to show the greed - rush out an unstable system to bring in the money.

Microsoft Office is better than anything else I've used, the open source alternative open office is slow and unstable - well has been for me.


You still obviously have a choice of browser, but not everyone is technically knowledgeable, imagine 2 months time, christmas day, many people get computer/internet first time, they just use it cause it's there. They don't think, let me just spend 3 hours downloading netscape.

I haven't used netscape since the Windows 95 days, the computers I used never belonged to me, and so was not my place to install other software. It's interesting though, OFSTED who inspect schools over here, quite clearly told schools they had to use Microsoft products!

I used AOL, the browser (which is an IE control) stayed minimised all the time!

[minstrel]

Originally Posted by OSFan

I don't hate Microsoft ;-).You still obviously have a choice of browser, but not everyone is technically knowledgeable, imagine 2 months time, christmas day, many people get computer/internet first time, they just use it cause it's there. They don't think, let me just spend 3 hours downloading Netscape.

I know there's some truth to that. However, my 80 year old father bought a new computer recently and his (and my) ISP (Sympatico) installs Netscape by default if you choose standard setup. So there he is with Windows XP, Netscape, and Outlook Express, sending emails and checking his lottery numbers...

I used AOL, the browser (which is an IE control) stayed minimised all the time!

All I know about AOL is the browser is HUGE when installed, infests whatever operating system it's installed upon without bothering to let the owner know it's going to happen, and screws up links and emails all the time (a sister and a sister-in-law have AOL). With all the negative press Microsoft has received, I have long been amazed that AOL hasn't been slammed along the way for their proprietary software and marketing practices...