FreeLance Question - Site credits or Not?

J_Paul · #1 (**permalink**) 07-15-2003, 03:17 PM

Lately, I've been seeing a lot of sites that have the "Designed By" at the bottom or a site credit link.

Do you think this is something that should be included in your clients designs?

I personally feel that if your client pays you for your work that you shouldn't put your logo on their site. Perhaps in the meta tags, but not on the site itself.

What are your views on this?

SyrenSong · #2 (**permalink**) 07-15-2003, 03:40 PM

I think a lot depends on the arrangement you have with your client.

For sure, if you're giving the client a discount or it's a freebie site, a link should be included at the bottom of the index page at a bare minimum.

If it's a paid site, then you and the client need to come to some agreement on the subject, or you could include it in your contract for design. (You do use a contract for your jobs, right?)

Personally, I'd try to get the link included at least on the index page as part of the contract. If the client objects, I'd remove the link, but still put my name in the meta tags as "Author". I'd also make sure you include in your contract the option to use the site (and/or an image of it) in your portfolio.

Of course, if you have to cave in to unreasonable demands from the client to add all sorts of flashing gifs and extra-large bold text and other things that make for an unpleasant site, I'd leave my name off the whole site altogether. If I don't feel proud of what I've produced for any reason, I see no point in associating myself with the site for any reason whatsoever.

Just my 2-cents!
Syren

Jackie · #3 (**permalink**) 07-15-2003, 04:04 PM

I don't see anything wrong with an inobtrusive little link somewhere on the site indicating who designed it. I've seen these on sites of every size (I've done it myself) and I don't see it as problematic. Painters, photo studios, ad agencies, and other creative sources usually include a name on their work. Why not Web designers?

Your client's site should not be your own billboard, however. There's a difference between tastefully signing your work and slapping a big ad on a page. I think if your "signature" is large enough to annoy your client, then you should probably tone it down. And as SyrenSong pointed out, it's always a good idea to include such items in your contract. (I hope it goes without saying that contracts are a good idea!)

J_Paul · #4 (**permalink**) 07-15-2003, 04:10 PM

Yes contracts are essential to protect both the designer and the client.

So you think that a, lets say.. "site credit" link at the bottom should not be a problem if working with clients? Just curious as to what other designers think.

I've seen sites that are just horrible with designers having a full sized logo at the bottom boasting their work. To me that seems a tad desperate.

I personally wouldn't put a link of any sort on the clients site if they are paying top dollar. I do agree with putting in the contract that the site will be used in the designers portfolio.

I see both sides though

SyrenSong · #5 (**permalink**) 07-15-2003, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jackie

There's a difference between tastefully signing your work and slapping a big ad on a page. I think if your "signature" is large enough to annoy your client, then you should probably tone it down.

That's exactly what I meant, Jackie. Something small, not something obnoxious.

Personally, I think a small text link is unobtrusive. A very small logo could also be acceptable, if the client agrees to it. But "small" is the key here.

Syren

carju1 · #6 (**permalink**) 07-15-2003, 05:13 PM

Must admit I've never written it into a contract (must be my intranet rather than internet mentallity). On the few sites I have done its in the contacts page with just an e-mail address on the principle that if someone has a complaint about the site design (or heaven forbid a compliment) or if there is a problem then I'd rather they contacted me so I can discuss/fix it rather than the client.

Overall I think a web site designer like an artist or poet should get to put his signature on it somewhere - Good or bad site because even if you think its horrid the client likes it (I hope) and there may be someone else out there with the same bad taste as the client. However it should be either a small link to your company site or an e-mail addy not some ostentatious dirty great logo.

Regards
Julian

jScott_Harris · #7 (**permalink**) 07-16-2003, 09:57 AM

I've been working on a site for a Lexington horse farm. I've noticed word of mouth from that client has got me more leads than any logo I could slap on someone's site. The deal I've worked up, if my client is happy with my work, they'll tell their friends and pass along my contact info.

That, and think about advertising (that all a webpage essentially is, a big ad for something). You don't see a print ad with a little logo on it saying "JetPack Design". The same with commercials.

J_Paul · #8 (**permalink**) 07-16-2003, 10:25 AM

Go Scott.

Wedohosting · #9 (**permalink**) 07-16-2003, 11:56 AM

hmm. I have seen this cloud from both sides now..

I personally have paid a designer for a "site" and not wanted any clue who did it because I wanted exclusivity of "brain". Sometimes when a designer makes the first of site (first type, first one in an industry" the cleint educates the designer a lot. So the client is expecting a one off, exclusive site (including mind). A tag may lead a competitor to the same designer who now can make a new site, even better and hotter using all the info gained during the first site construction.

I would think of this like a permanent "Realestate" sign on your house after it's been sold (This house was sold by BOB. Visit BOB when you want to buy a house 555-1212).

This is where your portfolio online shows that you made it then all gloves are off *unless the client doesn't want it in your prortfolio*.

IMHO

Rob

jScott_Harris · #10 (**permalink**) 07-16-2003, 02:37 PM

The realestate comparision is dead on... same goes as I said earlier. If the people who bought the house likes the job the agent did, they're refer the agent to others...

vfaulkner · #11 (**permalink**) 07-20-2003, 11:13 PM

As Carju1 said : On the few sites I have done its in the contacts page with just an e-mail address on the principle that if someone has a complaint about the site design (or heaven forbid a compliment) or if there is a problem then I'd rather they contacted me so I can discuss/fix it rather than the client.
I have done the same and it seems to benefit all, me, the clients,and the customers to have an open line of communication available.

cyanide · #12 (**permalink**) 07-22-2003, 05:22 PM

yes we add a small link.
It's usually included in the contract.

I only had 1 client that ever mentioned it and in the end allowed it
with no hassle. Most people seem to think it's the norm anyhow.

wetchman · #13 (**permalink**) 07-23-2003, 04:28 PM

We will only put a site credit on donated or extremely discounted work, and the arrangement is made ahead of time. When a graphic designer does an annual report, brochure, or business card, they don't add a "designed by" reference to every page, or even any page. It's not appropriate for web designers, either.

The folks who have said the referrals will come if you've got satisfied clients are correct: You'll get a lot more leads that way than any other.

BUT - we do include our info in the appropriate META tags, as well as an invisible, 1 pixel image linked to our site so that those who are looking can find us, and in hopes of better search engine relevance/crawling.

J_Paul · #14 (**permalink**) 07-23-2003, 04:31 PM

I like the 1x1 px idea. Never thought of that.

chyann · #15 (**permalink**) 07-23-2003, 09:36 PM

I view branding a website with someone else's name as I view branding my clothes with someone else's name; no, no, a thousand times NO!

I am designing my own site but IF I get good enough to do this for others, I would expect word-of-mouth advertising--not a 'sign' on someone's front page. If your client likes your workthey should brag about it, not you. Of course I would put you on my 'favorite links' page. Why not suggest that to your clients, isn't there a business equivalent???

wpwdmama · #16 (**permalink**) 07-25-2003, 01:36 PM

We always put a small logo (link) at the very bottom of the home page. It's in the contract, and I've never had a client object! By the time their site is done, most clients have referred at least one new lead. The majority also request that we put a link to our site on their links page, no matter what you title it. If nothing else, it gives people an easy way to refer people when they're out.

Elaine Jordan
Wolfpack Web Design
http://www.wpwd.net/

hs4u · #17 (**permalink**) 07-25-2003, 02:31 PM

I have designed many sites for small businesses and some for barter work. My clients want my name on them as it shows they took the time to hire someone to do the site, not homemade. I have only had one client not have me put the link on the site (and that was very fine with me! He wanted to give his public the impression he has the skills to do this work himself), but others I work with want it there. They also use the link to get ahold of me easily as well!

I think it is a client decision and my clients seem to think it lends to a professional attitude for their sites. That they will be around for a long time.

My humble opinion!

RJH · #18 (**permalink**) 07-26-2003, 07:10 PM

Firstly you never see on TV adverts who made the advert but... Double standards you will cry... It's in the designers interest to put the link in as not only many they get referrals but (and arguably more importantly) it may help with the link popularity game.

I always get it agreed at the quoting stage of the project - that way theres no surprises for anyone..

Peter · #19 (**permalink**) 07-28-2003, 04:59 AM

Id say that putting meta tags is fine and doubt anyone would object to it.
As far as the link to designers site, as long as the link is recipricol then in theory I can see no problem with it.
However some of these design companies have really "creative" names that just doesnt fit the image of the site they have created.

LorraineH · #20 (**permalink**) 07-29-2003, 11:35 AM

We include in our contract that we reserve the right to place a small text link "designed by .." on the site. This is a link in small text usually underneath the clients copyright notice at the bottom of the page.

We do also link to our client's sites from our own web site.

Of course should the client wish us to design a site which we were unhappy with we would not include such a link nor would we be inclined to link to their site from our own.

If a client were to object to this clause in the contract because they did not wish such a link to be placed on their site, we would have no problem not including it. However, we've never had a client object to this.

Publishers pay authors to write books and yet the copyright is transferred from author to publisher and the publisher owns the finished work. However the books still carry the name of the author so why shouldn't a web site carry the name of the designer?

totalprogrammingsolutions · #21 (**permalink**) 07-29-2003, 10:59 PM

Here's my 2 cents

My thought is that you should be proud of the site that you do. Remember the web can't be compared to realtors, or tv ads. The internet has its own rules. My personal opinion is that it is totally acceptable, if the owner of the site allows you to, to put a small link to you.

I agree that you shouldnt use animated gifs or flash, as that is just obnoxius. But a text link saying "Designed and Maintained by XXX" is fine on the bottom of the index page, well below what is seen in the initial load[/url]

press711 · #22 (**permalink**) 07-30-2003, 08:32 PM

One reasons valid on the internet and not in other medais is that by placing a link from your site to his site ... the designer increases his search engine position ... the more number of links to your iste the better your rank.. Secondly ofcourse if someone likes your site it can bring business to the designer.

I dont see why you would be .. but if you are too particular about it ..just mention it to the company before forming the contract .. i dont think they will risk business just for a link from your site.. if they do ..there are million other designers .. if the contract has aleady been soigned it just depends on the terms of the contract ..but again most companies wshould have no troubles in removing their logo if requested.

mpnev · #23 (**permalink**) 08-01-2003, 03:15 AM

If I am maintaining a site I designed, I place a small text link at the very bottom of each page, saying website design and administration by "link"... If I am not maintaining the site, I would leave the link off.

It is listed in my contract that if I am to continue to do any maintenance on the site, a non-obtrusive text link will appear at the bottom of each page, with font size being no larger than size 1.

The "flashy" links in my opinion are uncalled for and take away from the site itself. A good site design should have your client's interests at heart - not your own.