lack of client's help/input

[ran_dizolph]

Hey folks, just looking for a little insight/feedback here.

Far too often I find this happening:

Client approaches me about getting a website built. Client claims they need it right away.
I quote the job, client accepts, I tell the client what I need from them (content, images, samples of things they like, etc.), and the job falls flat on it's face as the client can't seem to get ANYTHING together to help me build them the best possible site I can.

I can't be the only one who goes through this. I'm just wondering what some of you have done in situations like this.

One example is a site I started on about 4 months ago. It's going so slowly because the client takes 2 weeks to respond to my emails, and all too often doesn't even answer my questions I write. She keeps saying that they want it done asap, but has done nothing to help me get through it.

Any insight'd be greatly appreciated.

[Tubby]

Ran,

Get around to your clients place with a Digital Camera and a notepad. Get a copy of every bit of printed paperwork you can find. Photograph everything including the pets, the garden, the rubbish bins, and the street where they live.

At the same time hold your hand out for a deposit.

The deposit will give you incentive, the photos will give you inspiration....

Go Get them! . . get off the forum and go do your job, before you go bankrupt.


Get back to wpw , if you are still 'stuck' when you have the above..

[cw1865]

I think part of the problem is that your clients are busy handling the day to day affairs of their business. They probably contacted you because they would like to develop the web as an additional marketing strategy to their existing business. Of course, they're contacting you because they know little about it.

You might want to try building something to get them excited about it.

If product photography is a constant issue you may want to consider offering that service as well (even if only to outsource it)

[imsickofwebpro]

Get around to your clients place with a Digital Camera and a notepad. Get a copy of every bit of printed paperwork you can fin

This is the best way to waste time and money. The client will come to expect free services, and complain about minor expenses. You don’t gain credibility by offering free services! Your lowest fee should be $50/hour.


This is how Professionals do it:
1. Learn project management. Read up on PMI and learn MS project. Go to a torrent website and download VCT MS Project tutorials.

2. It's time to institute acceptance form procedures. Generally, there are six steps in a Website Plan. Make your client sign-off on the current step before beginning the next one. Requirements Gathering is your first step.

3. Charge by the hour not by the job. You should estimate the full cost of the project based on time. Detail client responsibilities in your proposal and list Out of Scope Items. If a client misses a deadline, make sure they are aware the fees may be adjusted. Extending the length of the project or changing the project scope will impact the overall cost.

4. Reporting to stakeholders: Create a document outlining the progress of the project. Detail both accomplishments and delays and remind clients of upcoming milestones. Weekly and monthly reports should be sent.

It is never too late to get organized. Learn Project Management.

[ran_dizolph]

Get around to your clients place with a Digital Camera and a notepad. Get a copy of every bit of printed paperwork you can find. Photograph everything including the pets, the garden, the rubbish bins, and the street where they live.

Unfortunately (or maybe fortunately?), most of the freelance work i do is for out-of-towner's, so this isn't really feasible.

And like imsickofwebpro said, that typically isn't part of the deal. Plus, I still need REAL feedback and information from the client. Photocopies and photographs don't do me much good if I am lacking the basic information about the products and services they are offering, which is often best taken from the owners mouth. I find getting info from some clients about their own business to be something like pulling teeth.

clients are busy handling the day to day affairs of their business.

And I completely understand and respect that. However, I go to great lengths to get it across to the client before we even begin that there is going to be work on their part, and that quality websites don't just happen. It takes 2 parts: 1 is they provide me with the information i need (which i usually have to get straight from the small business owner), and 2 i put it all together and make it look pretty (just a slight simplification of what i really do).

You might want to try building something to get them excited about it.

I always do...this is part of where the bottleneck happens. I'll send them something to look at, and it takes a while for them to provide feedback (and my favourite type of feedback is a single adjective like 'make it look more different'!)

It is never too late to get organized. Learn Project Management.

Indeed. Perhaps it is time to take some of the steps mentioned above.

Thanks for the feedback.

[jboeckman]

It would be awesome if you could go to their business and follow them around creating the content for them but you have to make money. If you budgeted that into the scope your all set. If not you can be headed down a road that will cause you more headaches than it is worth. If you aren't into copywriting team up with someone who is in your area. Refer you client to that person and have them work together to get you what you need.

One thing we try to stay away from is setting up a commission with our partners. We want to make sure we are sending a client to a partner because of the quality of work they do not how much money we will make off the transaction.

I think it all comes down to setting correct expectations and realistic timelines. Make sure they know what is required of them and don't start on the project until you have what you need. If the client persists that you start immediately let them know that you will move on to the next phase of development even if they don't have all of their information together. Money is a good motivator especially to smaller businesses, which I assume you are dealing with. You can always launch a scaled back version of you website.

Make sure you have a good project management tool, basecamp is an awesome product and can make you a hero to your clients.

[ran_dizolph]

It would be awesome if you could go to their business and follow them around creating the content for them

Ahh...in a perfect world, perhaps. But, like i said in my last post, this isn't always feasible. Whenever I can get to a clients business to get info straight from the horses mouth, I do.

If you aren't into copy writing

This isn't always the case...I have an apt comprehension of the English language, and don't mind doing it, however, you can't get blood from a stone! If I'm provided with all of the relevant info i need, it all falls into place rather easily, if not, well, it's an uphill battle to say the least.

Make sure you have a good project management tool

I'm going to look into getting something along those lines set up to see what it'll do.

Thanks!

[jboeckman]

No problem. If you have any questions about how we use Basecamp feel free to message me. Our company uses it as our sole PM software and it is a great tool.

[mjtaylor]

Originally Posted by imsickofwebpro

3. Charge by the hour not by the job. You should estimate the full cost of the project based on time. Detail client responsibilities in your proposal and list Out of Scope Items. If a client misses a deadline, make sure they are aware the fees may be adjusted. Extending the length of the project or changing the project scope will impact the overall cost.

Excellent advice!

This is a tough part of the business of web development and client relations. Explain to the client that their project has deadlines and a tight schedule to allow you to both deliver their project in a timely manner and to allow you to move on to the next job. If deadlines aren't met, their project may be delayed when you have to meet other commitments.

It is important to get everything in writing and making the client's obligation to provide materials part of the contract is is no less important than the fees. Also, it's a good idea to tie the fees to a time line. If you demand an initial deposit and additional deposit while the site is underway, the client will feel the pressure of that additional payment if they have failed to meet a content and materials deadline.

[Dubbya]

Bear in mind that customers that drag their feet during the development phase are often the same clients that drag their feet during the payment phase.

If it were in fact that important to them, it'd be a bigger priority. Two weeks to respond to an email? I'd give them a call and ask them to re-evaluate their expectations.

Let them set the pace. If they're simply too busy to work with you on this, maybe suggest that they have you make a few smaller changes now that you can tweak into a site overhaul over time.

Keep making changes and eventually, you'll have a new site.

It would take the pressure off of them and free you up to do some other business until they can get their ducks in a row.

.02

[ran_dizolph]

Bear in mind that customers that drag their feet during the development phase are often the same clients that drag their feet during the payment phase.

I have yet to come across a client like that. I make it pretty clear with my deposit for work...50% before i move my mouse, and 50% when i launch it. Not one has had a problem with it.

I'd give them a call and ask them to re-evaluate their expectations.

That's the plan.

In fact, I'm also going to mention to the client that since they paid their deposit, i have had the time to complete an entirely separate job from front to back (just to give them the idea that's it's not just me dragging my feet).

Thanks for the feedback!

[cascade21]

I too have this problem with my clients, but I have a great contract that is based on both my company meeting my deadlines, and the client meeting the deadlines they agreed to on receiving content and information. Each time a deadline is missed I send a reminder, and an updated schedule of fees and an updated time line for completion. It typically gets good results. I have only had one client completely belligerent about the delays and additional expenses that are caused by their neglect of the project. Typically my customers are thrilled to know what the stakes are before hand, instead of having no idea how each change to the schedule will impact their project.
I would suggest, as other did, a contract outlining not only your commitment to the customer, but their commitment to you... and the repercussions for each if a party fails to meet obligations. Also, maintaining contact on your end, regardless of their involvement. A weekly status email is my preferred method. I have a template set up in my outlook, that I simply save and continually update on a weekly basis. Send with a delivery and read receipt, and you will be doing everything you can to keep the project on schedule and maintain consistent contact with the customer. This has helped me with many a overwhelmed client. Good luck!