Joomla vs. CSS / HTML

[Traffic Miester]

As a slightly better than novice website coder/designer/builder (whatever you want to call it) my current sites are all built using HTML. As with most things, the more you do it , the better you get / the more you learn yada yada yada. Well, I have learned that HTML can be a pain in the backside when you have multiple pages and want to make a sitewide change.
Granted there are tools to do a find and replace such as in Dreamweaver but as you may know, unless the what to find portion is exactly the same on every page, the replace function will not be complete - it could even cause some pages to fail.
So, having an html template comes to mind - that's nice and all but, I don't see it being the solution to sitewide modifications.

I have begun to learn about CSS and used it for as a basic style sheet ( mostly just for setting text / headers and such).

My question then is "Who out there is using Joomla (joomla.org)?"
Do you like it, is better or worse than pure CSS / HTML?
Granted, joomla runs under Unix but that opens up a completely open source website. This means getting some knowledge on the best choice for the OS - Knoppix, etc.

[weslinda]

Well Joomla is a CMS and there are tons of options out there for a web site. CMS is the best way to manage a layout if you are going to have a fair amount of content on a site. Should you choose to change your menus or layout then you can do it all from some administrative areas.

However, there are some pitfalls to Joomla and other CMS products. Some have a fair learning curve, especially when it comes to templating in the first place.

They can also be poor on the quality of code written using the editors they have in place for new content.

CMS is definately the way to go if you want to build a large scale site, but doing your homework is key and finding the best fit is crucial. A lot depends on budget, time and knowledge on which solution would be right for you.

[jeffposaka]

Joomla is great once you have it all set up. You can add new pages very quickly and it is easy for non-tech people to manage content. I like it.

[bj]

Joomla is okay. There are better CMS out there. Modx comes immediately to mind (ease of use for end user is main recommendation for this one) also Wordpress for smaller sites is MUCH MUCH easier, Drupal, E107, Textpattern . . .

Templating to any dynamic program is quite a bit more complicated than a dreamweaver template. You might be jumping from the frying pan into the fire. Especially given this rather esoteric statement--

Granted, joomla runs under Unix but that opens up a completely open source website. This means getting some knowledge on the best choice for the OS - Knoppix, etc.

Joomla and the other php programs run on Linux/Apache/Mysql/Php servers (well, rumor has it that you can get them to work on windoze, but not as easily.) It doesn't matter what OS you have on your own machine. I use three different 'puters for development, none of them Linux. But I upload to linux hosting.

[dlsweb]

Perhaps all you are really looking for is SSI, Server Side Includes.

You can easily place your header, footer, menu or any content or code that you want to include on multiple pages.

You could have a text file for each bit of content/code to include.
Then include that file where ever you like by placing something like
<!--#include virtual="navigation.txt"--> into your html.

Change that file and it changes on all your pages. For most servers the page extension must be .shtml

[slideri812]

Hey,

I have been building sites for years. We are a MM shop. As far as templates go DW has all of the tools any ones needs for creating and maintaining large static sites. They key is in the design. Not the look, but how you put all of the pieces together. I create a root template in DW. SAVE it as a template and use the template tools. Second is to use the library objects. These are great for footers and other repeating elements that need to be changed from time to time. You simply open the lib object, make a change, save, changes are populated to all instances of the object used through out the site. Make template variations from the root template. Since my contact pages are PHP I create a new page, detach from the template, save as PHP. All the lib objects are there. FYI I use lib's for main and sub nav items most of the time.
Finally, and you are on the right track here, we use CSS to control as much of the presentation as possible. Though I have mentioned this last, it is actually a key part of the root template development. I easily maintain sites in excess of 100 pages with this system. I have some that are updated every month, it only take a couple of hours per site. This includes archiving old pages, updating site map, updating features and news pages and linking it all back to the front page.

To that end, good design (from the template POV) is key in the use of Joomla!. I have been using it for 4 years now (started with Mambo). In Jan of 08 we will no longer be creating static sites, even for our 5 page site clients.

Sure, there are other CMS out there, and I suggest that you try several. After having done this myself, our shop adopted Joomla! as the CMS to embrace, get to know intimately. Besides, as with all OS apps you need to look at more then just the app itself. You need to look at the community, how large it is, how active it is, how much help can you really get. Also, what kind of extensibility is available? How is the API? Even if you can't program custom items yourself, you need to know what kind of a pool of experienced programmers there is to draw upon for hire and for help.

just mtc

[frosty]

I have been using Joomla for the past 2 years and find it's ease of use and quick interface to update my webpages GREAT. I've used DW in the past as well as good ole Notepad, but since the switch I've been extremely pleased.
I have a need to continuously updates my St. John's real estate listings and the straight forward click, type and finish, has saved me numerous hours.
As well as having 3 additional websites I can update certain pages across all 3 sites in one step. There are many addon's for all your needs for an added bonus.
Highly recommend Joomla!

[Traffic Miester]

Thanks to everyone for your input! I appreciate your time.

[williemanillie]

Originally Posted by bj

Joomla is okay. There are better CMS out there. Modx comes immediately to mind (ease of use for end user is main recommendation for this one) also Wordpress for smaller sites is MUCH MUCH easier, Drupal, E107, Textpattern . . .

Wordpress is not a CMS. It is a Blog platform. Some attempt to use it as a CMS, but it isn't flexible enough. Joomla has an large library of extensions. There are a few gems that can assist immensely for SEO.

There is a learning curve to CMS in general. I am in my fourth year with Joomla (starting as Mambo). It has provided much stability and the more I use it the more optimized it has resulted. The organic ranking is not an overnight process and will take a number of months to see considerable results.

[bj]

Wordpress is not a CMS. It is a Blog platform. Some attempt to use it as a CMS, but it isn't flexible enough. Joomla has an large library of extensions. There are a few gems that can assist immensely for SEO.

You're right, WP isn't built as a CMS but it can function as a simple one. Depends on needs, and for many it's perfectly adequate, and MUCH simpler to use than most CMS out there. And there are certain things WP does, out of the box, 100% easier than Joomla ever did. Search Engine Friendly Urls, for instance, and Standards Compliant Templating (yes, I know about the "new" version's templating, but overrides are cumbersome and awkward, and put too many pieces in too many different places. MUCH harder to troubleshoot.)

When I work with Joomla I curse a lot. Every time I install an extension, it breaks something. So much for that touted "extensibility". And the code bloat is beyond belief. There seems to be no vetting of extensions prior to release on the Joomla site (which amounts to an endorsement.) Anyone can write an extension (and charge money for it. sheesh.) no matter how bad or insecure the code is, and get it posted for download from the Joomla site.

I stand by what I said, there are better CMS out there. Joomla is hampered by its code team's (understandable) insistence on backwards compatibility. Which means that it will never be as flexible as ModX or Drupal or Bricolage or E107, or other CMS being formulated now.

I also understand that there are a lotta Joom fanboyz. You appear to be one of them.