There really is no accounting for taste! Help needed...

[thindenim]

Hi all,

I have just had the most frustrating day. I have just about finished a web site for a client, which I think was looking pretty good --- it's for a major piping festival here in Glasgow.

They approved the design, however, they had a professional "graphic design company" producing artwork for their brochures, flyers etc, so basically I put in a temporary banner image, which I was told would be replaced by a nice collage, or such like of images of the festival.

I have been waiting for the images for about 3 weeks and was absolutely shocked this morning to receive a pdf document with the banner, which was: -

A bright yellow block with the logo slapped on it
A silhouette of a piper, which looks more like Bob marley holding a chicken
White text on a yellow background!!
Dodgy photoshop drop shadow filter (honestly some people should have filters disabled from their menu)

Now obviously design is about opinions, but unless I am going insane here white text on yellow is pretty much unreadable and all along they have been preaching to me about the importance of accessability on the site! To my eyes it just looks terrible and completely ruins the design.

I have uploaded screen grabs of the two designs (as I don't want the test site indexed) and would be grateful for some feedback that I can go back to the client with. I've given them my opinion, but obviously would be good to get some objective opinions. Please tell me I'm not going insane!

Original Layout - http://www.tdserver.co.uk/original.html

New Yellow Layout - http://www.tdserver.co.uk/new.html


Many thanks,
David[/list]

[drummin]

Hey David, I totally agree with your assessment of these images. At least the original is a real image. I'd suggest asking them for images of the festival and making your own image collage. Maybe you like the yellow site but I think the whole "yellow thing" is gross.

[thindenim]

Hi drummin,

Many thanks for the feedback. To clarify... I detest the yellow site! I don't even know where the yellow came from as before commencing I was told their colour scheme was orange and navy (as their logo).

[vwebworld]

The yellow is a bit much... sort of a slap in the face....
BUT, it can work. If you change the yelow in the menu
to the rust like color, it will bring out the rust color
in the header.

~Roland

[Soulkeeper]

ACK!!!!!!!!! Good Lord almighty, what in God's name is that?!??! Man, I know I am a hard core atheist but other words just elude me at this present time.........
I completely agree with your saying that some people just should not be allowed anywhere near Photoshop filters.
Somebody should tell the person who chose that colour that is resembles something found in a newborns diaper. We all wonder how they convert anything that goes in the top end into a toxic mush but at least we now have a visual representation of the colour!!!!!!
In all seriousness, your design outweighs that yellow thing by quite a long shot and I feel as though you really have nothing to fear about you losing the design competition......

Mike V
webmaster@raindropsto.com

[thindenim]

lol, funnily enought Soulkeeper myself and my colleague described the colour as "diarrhoea yellow"... don't think you'll find that one in the Dulux paint range :-)

[spenland]

Ugh, yellow is the bane of my existence on the web so I feel your pain. I think the worst part though is the 'bob marley' figure and the unrecognizable bagpipe. Hopefully you can convince the client to let you make some sort of collage. I think you were on the right track with your first draft.

[Orion]

Personally, that yellow is gross.

On the accessibility aspect, I had my wife who has some vision problems (not too bad she can still drive (you don't actually have to see to do that in Canada j/k)) and she was able to read the text on the yellow, but not without difficulty. Even I had to catch the light the right way.

Accessibility requires HIGH contrast between text and backgrounds, there's not much way around that one.

Best of luck convincing the client of it. lol...

[brander]

Hi all,

just my two cents worth...

If the client is paying for the design, can't you just upload the image to the design they approved and let them decide for themselves how it looks.

Or is it one of those deals where the designer has got to keep coming up with new designs even after an approved design has been created?

Either way, IMHO, the client (if they are paying) has the final say don't they?

If they are not paying and this has been done as part of some public service or portfolio building project, and you are still not happy with how it looks to such an extent that you do not want to be associated with the design; I guess you need to remove any links to your own site and get this project behind you so you can move on to something more pleasing to your eye.

And preferably some clients who are more in tune with your own design sensibilities.

Moral of the story:
Spell out project scope and requirements as well as client responsibilities IN WRITING before commencing any projects.

[Jerry]

Ummm.... Wow!

In both my personal and professional opinion, your original is better suited. the "new" color scheme is eye wrenching, to say the least, and I'm a fan of yellow...

In Moderation

I hope you have some luck with your client

[jrdmra]

I like yours much better. I too enjoy some yellow for contrast depending on the site but a yellow focus is hideous. The bob marley guy I can work with if your a pipe guy you know what he is holding but the white text is butt especially when it crosses over the white bag pipe on Bob.

I think that your color scheme is better. The yelow in the header doesnt even match the yellow in the events doary and the search events.

If the customer wants something more abstract I would like to see what you can come up with in your original color scheme.

Alas the customer is always right and if you dont like the final product but the money goes in your account just dont ever admit to it!

[ronchalice]

I agree with Jerry. I like a little yellow too. A teaspoon of lemon juice on a nice salmon fillet. The morning sun over the clear waters north of Grand Cayman. An old Beatles album cover ;-)

The Bob Marley thing really doesn't work... did the organizers need the yellow color for large banners that people could see in the morning mist? I don't think I know of any "professional graphics design firm" that would have designed it...

Are they concerned about model releases if they use "real" pipers in the heading?

Push hard for your first version, or a slight modification thereof... it's good.

[bj]

Personally, I agree that the yellow is a gagfest, and that um, er . . . thing . . . (hmm, that looks like an indian headdress or a punk mohawk . . . ) looks like anything BUT a piper!

However, it's the client's call. Let them make it, and if they choose wrong, don't link it from your online portfolio and don't put your name anywhere on it. Then move on.

[thindenim]

Perhaps the designers got their inspiration while enjoying a herbal cigarette and listening to the last strains of No Woman No Cry. Suddenly the CD skips to Yellow Submarine...

Eureka!

[orangemike]

It looks like a bad (really bad) attempt at imitating or parodying an iPod ad. If they really insist on doing that, at least convey to them how poor the white-on-yellow is for legibility. (Maybe white-on-deep-orange instead?)

[ronchalice]

Gee OrangeMike...

How did we know you might suggest an orange background??? ;-)

Good idea though if compromise is unavoidable...

[MarcThai]

Originally Posted by thindenim

Hi all,

I have just had the most frustrating day. I have just about finished a web site for a client, which I think was looking pretty good --- it's for a major piping festival here in Glasgow.

They approved the design, however, they had a professional "graphic design company" producing artwork for their brochures, flyers etc, so basically I put in a temporary banner image, which I was told would be replaced by a nice collage, or such like of images of the festival.

I have been waiting for the images for about 3 weeks and was absolutely shocked this morning to receive a pdf document with the banner, which was: -

A bright yellow block with the logo slapped on it
A silhouette of a piper, which looks more like Bob marley holding a chicken
White text on a yellow background!!
Dodgy photoshop drop shadow filter (honestly some people should have filters disabled from their menu)

Now obviously design is about opinions, but unless I am going insane here white text on yellow is pretty much unreadable and all along they have been preaching to me about the importance of accessability on the site! To my eyes it just looks terrible and completely ruins the design.

I have uploaded screen grabs of the two designs (as I don't want the test site indexed) and would be grateful for some feedback that I can go back to the client with. I've given them my opinion, but obviously would be good to get some objective opinions. Please tell me I'm not going insane!

Original Layout - http://www.tdserver.co.uk/original.html

New Yellow Layout - http://www.tdserver.co.uk/new.html


Many thanks,
David[/list]

The original design with Blue is definitely much more readable and professional looking. Simple, clear, easy to read, and the banner image tells visitors immediately what the site is about.

The only thing I would suggest changing is the background color of the headers, "2007 Events Diary", etc, to give more contrast. The brown and blue don't complement each other. How about a much darker brown/red color? Or perhaps a dark blue to match the color of the logo?

White on yellow text? Are these guys color blind? The whole website is lost to view before we even get to the content. Matching yellow headers as well just amplify the whole 'lost' feeling. Big thumbs down for the 2nd design.

There's no accounting for the tastes of clients. You have to just shake your head in disbelief sometimes, don't you?

[bj]

This unfortunately is the name of the game. We do the best we can to advise and create for the client something functional AND attractive, but some want what they want, no matter how dysfunctional or in poor taste, and none of us are mind readers, nor do we always know best. Ultimately he who pays the bill has the last word. And one of those sites I wasn't happy with, after I made those client requested edits, is one from which I have gotten a fair number of referrals since the client loved what I did for him.

That doesn't mean I have to openly claim a site like that as mine (unless the person I'm talking to was referred by that site owner) or put my name anywhere on a site that I'm less than happy with.

[jannmirch]

I won't get into the color scheme - that's been fairly well covered.

But one thing no one mentioned was the possible politics that come into play. If your client is using a "professional design firm" - which means different things to different people - there could be a whole slew of issues going on that you are unaware of (happily so one might imagine.) Is the firm owned by the event organizer's son-in-law?...

As others have said, you do your best to make your case for legibility, etc. etc. and then you move on.

Oddly, I found myself at the front end of this kind of situation recently. After I had the agreement in-hand, the client informed me they were also redesigning all their collateral marketing material and would I be willing to work with the other designer to develop a unified look? But again, there were a lot of behind closed door politics going on. You can't let yourself get caught up in it.

As my sister and I like to say, "Don't catch the crazies!" (Sadly this is a disease you can catch from just about anyone - even over the phone!)

Best of luck. We're rootin' for ya!

[newhomeplans]

Every reply is correct in my opinion, however the last two posts summed up the problem correctly. It is POLITICS!!! Perhaps the site owners wife chose the graphic design firm and he is too sheepish to contradict her, (gender can be reversed of course). Don't let it bother you. Move on to a better project.

Allen Jones
Salmon Arm, BC, Canada

[Cloggie192]

As one scotsman to another - If it was your choice stay with the original -the yellow is bile yellow and does not fit with the page nor the subject - How many kilts do you see in that colour? - That is only for Edinburgh Rock wrapers.

[aeryn]

I suffer the same issues working for an inhouse dev. department with an outside agency doing the design. They only consider design for print and not how it will fit for web.

However, from a marketing point of view, I expect the client will go for the canary yellow header as it fits with the rest of their branding.

[rklwebs]

I have to say the yellow really does grab your attention even if it does look bad. The original is so much better.
And by the way....
I never even knew that Bob Marley played the pipes. :)

[thindenim]

Many thanks again for all the feedback on this, which was very useful.

In the end I decided to do my best Kofi Annan impression and put together a sort of compromise between the two. I incorporated their yellow header at the top (complete with Bob Marley), but kept my nav bar and original banner underneath.

I've also changed the body bit, it's a little more colourful than I would personally go for, but I think it fits in with the header more. The yellow I have now used throughout the site as "Piping Live +", to activate media content - which you will see in the banner on the home layout.

It's not exactly what I would have liked, but certainly looks a lot better than it did, even Bob doesn't look too bad when he's shrunk down....

New layout is at http://www.tdserver.co.uk/compromise.html, would be grateful for any feedback.

Thanks again,
David

[jrdmra]

I think the final product turned out very nice. Good compromise and your diplomacy probobaly will land you more work than if you had been stubborn in the long run

[jannmirch]

Job well done. With the other colors the yellow is sort of toned down a bit. Congratulations.

[newhomeplans]

Your compromise looks fine to me, which the site owners should approve of if they have any artistic taste. Let us know what their opinion is.

Allen Jones
Salmon Arm BC