Site design stolen

[UCSI]

Hello – not sure if this is the right forum to post this question, but I have a major problem.

One of our clients took his site that he had not paid for (I know, our mistake for extending terms) and transferred it to another hosting company – they even left our byline/link on each page.

While he has a right to the content of the site, I truly believe that he has no right whatsoever to the code and design as well as SEO that has been provided to him, since he hasn’t paid for it.

We contacted the new host and asked them to take the site down - they simply stated it isn’t their problem.

Any ideas as to what our next step should be? Also – we do not have the current address of the client, as he has moved – otherwise we would pursue legal actions.

Thanks in advance for your help!

[stymiee]

Use the DMCA to have their site taken down. Then send them a letter informing them if they do it again you'll call the FBI as they are using stolen intellectual property from you and you will press charges against them.

[Jeff Colburn]

Hi,

Read my article "Stop Thief!!! What You Can Do If Someone Steals Your Website's Contents" at http://www.creativecauldron.com/webs...cleThief.shtml

It should answer your question.

Have Fun,
Jeff

[davebytes]

Has the client stated he/she won't be paying you? Do you have any written contract? Do you have correspondance on the topic?

If so, the new host IS responsible for serving up a site that violates ownership/copyright.

The article linked to by Jeff above is somewhat useful when you get down to the last two points:
- you can send a Cease and Desist to the client, and then fax a copy to the host.
- you can contact the search engines, with enough information trail that they should (hopefully) block the site.

-d

[Ira_Weiss]

I run a freelance copywriting business and this came up in topic on our discussion group. To thwart future instances of this kind add a section to the contract stating something like this:

Copyrights: Copyrights for material written and produced by YOUR COMPANY transfer to the CLIENT once full payment has been received. Materials may be used prior to full payment, if requested by the CLIENT, with the understanding that if full payment is not received according to the agreed upon terms, the copyrights revert back to YOUR COMPANY.

Edit for Web Design, of course...

[Orion]

Great article Jeff, I may contact you down the road as I expand my website's information to put a copy of that up.

I guess every juristiction is slightly different, I know in Canada before hiring a lawyer or after (or just after seeking legal advise) it's very good to file a report with the authorities. Meaning your local, provincial (state), and or federal law enforcement.

Once a report has been filed it will make any civil proceedings for compensation etc. carry much more weight.

I think the greatest problem is if they won't remove the content after the first few attempts (contacts) the time involved can be extensive

Be sure too that when you do your cease and desist letter that it includes the DMCA section that refers to the fact that if the host provider does not shut down the site they can be held liable and will be included in any legal proceedings.

Good luck, and do let us know how it all goes! it's nice to hear how different approaches pan out, might help some of us down the road.

[David Pearson]

I suppose if, after exhausting all avenues you have no success, you could create multiple sites with the same content but incorrect contact details etc. and submit them to search engines and let the engines penalise every site for "spamming"

Also register the site in question with every dodgy link farm and directory you can find ... including stacks of porn directories

In other words do everything "external" that the search engines consider "black hat" and negative.

You just never know it might work.

We hear all the time of legitimate sites being penalised when someone copies their content etc. - sometimes the best form of defense is attack

[schachin]

i do this to help protect myself from wasting my time with a client who is just a crook in disguise---
this is for whole web sites

1/3 down before i do a thing.. I have NEVER had a client balk at this.. if they do then you don't want them..

1/3 when the design is approved.. they get a low res image to choose from and nothing else until I get the money for the design work --
WHY? Because someone can decide to take it elsewhere like they did you .. and pay someone less to implement .. again NEVER had a legit client blak and it keeps them on task.. once they have invested that much they don't let things slide like content..

1/3 when it goes live - not when it is done (because i allow some changes after live) but when live because now it is there making them money

also I put in the contract whether or not they own the rights to the materials -- by default they do not -- 99% of the time though I give it to them, but it does state that only if they pay 100% .. also contract states what happens if they default.. these things should help next time.. in the meantime you have been robbed as surely if they took your wallet.. except they also took your time and resources you could use making money, so I agree with everyone else.. DMCA - FBI whoever you can to listen -- though I have found a well worded letter from a lawyer usually gets results.. and only costs 100 or so ....

hope this helps!

[Orion]

I do similar

either i) Pay for one year hosting or ii) 25% down.
then choose design I then convert to HTML template (pay 50%) then after work is complete but not longer than 2week or 30 days (dependant upon project, this protects from them dragging it on and on and on) final due.

Whatever you do it's simply good to have a procedure and stick to it.

You can also build the site in the back of your domain till you get final payment, then upload it, I've done that when I don't know the client from adam and they don't seem too forthcoming with finances etc.

[UCSI]

thanks for all your input! We generally do require downpayments and we also usually buold the site in the backend of our domain until the site is approved and goes live (and payment is received) - but this was a 'friend' - so I thought.

He has moved so many times in the interim, we also do NOT have a current address on file, which makes things even more difficult. I will defenitley be submitting DMCA notifications and maybe also list him in some porn sites (love that idea)- just because I am really ticked off at this.

He has gotten so much free advice in regards to marketing and SEO, it's unreal - besides the stolen design and code of course...live an learn I guess.

[rms7design]

I do all the above (1/3 payment etc...) but also, I keep the username and pswrd to the hosting confidential until release of the rights to use the website (I don't transfer the right to the website in its entirely because the client could then duplicate/resell the website.

anyway, good luck

[DrTandem1]

Yeah, I require half the estimate up front and the balance upon completion.

As far as taking your work without payment, you need three things to make your case:

1)Evidence of a contract. "If it's in writing you have a prayer. If it's spoken, you have nothing, but air."

2)Possess the work product. Graphics, copy and such are put together from rough drafts and layers, etc. As the designer, you should have this work-product to prove that you are the creator. Unless you gave the thief this, too, you have a good chance.

3)Patience. Whether you can actually pin down the thief depends on their location relative to yours. It may cost you more than it's worth. Even if you "win" in court, you need to have the judgement executed. That is sometimes impossible. You have then just added insult to your injury.

My advice: Move forward and don't make the same mistake.

[schmeetz]

Create a page within one of your sites and bad-mouth his business.

I did this for someone who had not paid me for a flash header i did.

I ranked higher than he did for his company name and services. The meta title was Company Name is a Thief.....lol. The landing page elaborated.

Once i made him aware of this i recieved payment + damages within a week.

win win i think. hehe

[DrTandem1]

Originally Posted by schmeetz

Create a page within one of your sites and bad-mouth his business.

I did this for someone who had not paid me for a flash header i did.

I ranked higher than he did for his company name and services. The meta title was Company Name is a Thief.....lol. The landing page elaborated.

Once i made him aware of this i recieved payment + damages within a week.

win win i think. hehe

Very mature.

[Jeff Colburn]

Hi Orion,

Thanks, I'm glad you liked my article. Feel free to use my article, just please include the resource box below the article. And if you could let me know when you post it I'd love to see it.

Have Fun,
Jeff

[searchrentals123]

Well, as far as content goes it is illegal to copy; this includes pictures and text. As far as site layout, css styles, colors, cannot be copyrighted from what I understand. I kinda have the same question. Can somebody please find me the actual law on this subject.
Please check out my site as well.--> http://www.searchrentals.com/

[perpetuum-mobile]

Originally Posted by searchrentals123

Please check out my site as well.--> http://www.searchrentals.com/

The border of Europe is shown incorrectly. It should end by the Ural Mountains on the East. I understand that you were trying to 'add' whole Russia to Europe, but it looks like a geographical error, lowering the credibility of the site.

[Drackoxdfw]

Honestly, Your best option is to keep asking him to pay. By doing "Black hat" techniques such as creating "bad mouthing" pages, or other bad tacktics, it will only get you into a bad PR hole.

If he does not pay, try hiring a collections company to take care of the matter.

You did release the coding to him by allowing him to download the data, which means you did provide him full access to the site. I know it's wrong, but legally in the courts, a good attorney will use that as an argument, and you gain nothing.

SEO is not truely intellectual property, it's a service rendered using the knowlege of yourself or others that has been learned, collected, and taught. SEO information can easily be found all over the net and in books, thus making it public knowlege and not intellectual property - unless you did something that is not "ovious" and has not been used anywhere else.

The same goes with scripting and HTML work. Tough graphics can be deemed Intellectual property, and the structure you put in the HTML can be too..., It generally will not fly in the courts either unless it is regiestered with the copyright office, otherwise it's your word against his... The laws are written in most states to protect the individual being sued, not the suer...

I hope this info helps, and hope you have learned a lesson not to release any codeing or such with out a deposit first or any payment.