Hand Coding v. WYSIWYG editors

[ChadHerring]

My thoughts on this have changed dramatically. if you had asked me 4 years ago, I would have told you that completely hand-coded HTML was the only way a 'true' developer would do it. WYSIWYG editors are for newbies and amatures.

Over the past 4 years, my opinion has changed dramatically. I manage a web development department and we have found that doing general HTML layout and template creation to be much more efficient using Dreamweaver. Hand-coding, in my mind, now referrs more directly to PHP, perl and other scripting tasks.

Using a true development tool in order to speed time-consuming tasks does not automatically mean that the HTML code being generated is messy, bloated or inneficient anymore. But you need to be careful here, because a WYSIWYG editors are not all created the same... and MOST importantly, a WYSIWYG editor does not replace experience and knowledge. Even with robust development tools, a solid foundation in the techniques needed to debug and troubleshoot HTML code are needed by any professional developer.

WYSIWYG editors also have a tendancy to promote laziness in developers. A good developer will always proof and review generated code for errors and extra, unneeded code inserted by the editor.

In short... Go ahead. Don't feel guilty about using a GOOD product. But keep in mind that you still need to have the basic knowledge needed to produce a quality product on your own, without the help of a "crutch" to get you through the development cycle of a professionally designed website.

[DrTandem1]

If somebody tells me that they "hand-coded" a site, I would take it to mean that they did not use an HTML editor beyond something like Notepad. That being said, I think it is important to know how to hand-code as no WYSIWYG editor is beyond needing a tweak here or there. Today, sites are very complex using JavaScript and tables nested within tables, etc. It would be very difficult for a person to compete by simply hand-coding a site, especially one with more than just a few pages.

Now, as to the question of "where do you draw the line" is concerned, I don't. Both methods have their place. For instance, I have one extremely large site I administer on an intranet. If I need to make a small change, it's quicker for me to open Notepad and make the change, rather than wait for Dreamweaver to load the pages from the server. If I make a copy-and-paste spelling error that has been populated on fifty pages, I'm not going to open each page and correct the error, especially by hand. I'm going to use a global find-and-replace command and let the editor do the work.

I've heard this debate from both sides. Hand-coders say that they are the "real designers" and WYSIWYG users say that they are the "real designers". If you're designing a site, you're a designer. Use the tools that fit the job. Let technology do the work, but be ready to step in, if necessary. To rely solely on a WYSIWYG editor is asking for trouble and to stubbornly hand-code everything is stupid.

[httpman]

Hand coding, wysiwyg coding...

Is this the continuation of a post in the "web design" section ? It's a very common question, and there are so many different sensibilities.

I've made more or less 50 websites by now, in my (short) webdesigner life. Some costing more than 40.000 USD, other less than 1.200 USD. Indeed, the key is not "hand coding or not", but "how are you with templates".

Should I hand code or Wysiwyg code, I couldn't manage a 50 or 200 pages website without any templates system. So the right question sounds like : which templates system do you use ?

As a professionnal, the time I have to spent for administrative tasks on my websites is a pain : the longer it takes, the lower the margins. I must be efficient, and cost-saving. Templates are the way !!

JP

[Diana]

If I'd been asked this two years ago, I would have sworn handcoding in Notepad or slightly glorified Notepad-like editors was the *only* way. I hadn't firmly grasped the concepts of DW4 at that time and it took me longer in DW to do many of my common tasks.

Now, I love DW. It's sped things up by AT least 50%. I switch between code & design view, use templates to my advantage and can get a site done rather rapidly once I have the design/layout done and the content from the client.

Moving into table-less designs (using CSS) I'm happy with DWMX 2004 (waiting anxiously for it to arrive, since my trial expired...ACK!) and the fact I can validate (more or less) my code within the editor. Previewing the CSS in the browser is also quite helpful, saving me more time than I can even imagine, since I no longer have to bring up 4 browsers everytime I tweak the CSS. I still have to browser check some, but it's much less time consuming now.

Still, it's my belief that unless you know the HTML to begin with, when you have a problem you'll be stumped. Learn HTML basics, know "how" to do it without the fancy tools and then bring on the big guns and improve efficiency.

-Diana

[httpman]

Right, quite right Diana.

Any tool is welcome as long as you can get the most from it.

But : wysiwyg tools are really limited to very basic, institutional websites (few pages, high value graphics). Probably an e-Mac fantasy, but I'm not an e-Mac fan so I can't imagine how to build a 200+ pages website using any of those wysiwyg tools.

200+ pages website ARE the words that make an e-Mac fan getting out.

Ok, so if you have built a - let's say : 50+ pages website - and just use one of those wysiwyg editors like Frontpage or Dreamweaver, please tell how do you change that "tel. number" on those 50+ pages, at a reasonnable cost.

My feeling is that Dreamweaver and Frontpage are good tools for people building their own website, or starting their business over the web. Then in a few months, they will have to start hand coding... Or die ?

Jean-Pierre

[Diana]

By using the templates feature in DW I can change one file, update all the others and re-upload the HTML files if I choose. However, I still use SSI for some things (like copyright) which will be spread across the site and will have to be updated regularly.

I also try to make it so my nav will need no future additions. If it's likely to need additions, I'll put that into an SSI too, with full paths. :)

-Diana

[DrTandem1]

Jean-Pierre,

I would never recommend FrontPage for a variety of reasons, one being security. Templates have inherent problems, unless you have created them yourself. It sounds like you are using frames, or frame-like templates (ASP), also having issues. I think I already answered your question on how to change things on a mass basis in Dreamweaver. Dreamweaver also has a library feature that I use specifically for things that are likely change, such as phone numbers.

[dax]

Personally, I use the text editor of HomeSite. I find coloured text very useful. My very first site was built using FrontPage a little over 5 years ago. After the web design bug bit, I explored HTML, JS, CF, PHP etc. and hand coding. I opened FrontPage a few months back and was totally lost...I opened DW and couldn't even place an image on the page! I spent about 5 minutes trying and closed the program. It has since been un-installed and gathers dust with many others.

I simply prefer to 'hand code'. I have moved away from tables and use pure CSS for design now and I can see how the site looks by reading the code before I ever view it in a browser. It works for me.

HOWEVER - in my book, the finished result is the most important factor. This debate has been around, it seems, since web design was born and I have always felt it very arrogant for hand coders to 'belittle' designers who use other tools for development. At the end of the day, web designers/developers are rated by the work they produce. I have over 50 'regular' clients and not one has asked what I use to build sites...nor do I offer that information.

When a plumber calls to fix your water leak, do you ask what make of wrench he uses? Do you care? Do you judge him by his nice shiny state-of-the-art tools...or by the quality of the job he does?

Me? Rusty wrench or shiny wrench - I just want a dry home!

Dax

[bbcompent1]

To me, I consider it writing raw classic ASP code in Visual Interdev, although you can use plain old notepad and accomplish the same thing. The point is that you know what the system is doing behind the scenes, the nuts and bolts if you will.

[DrTandem1]

I may be mistaken, but isn't HomeSite a stripped-down early version of Dreamweaver? Anyway, you shouldn't have been lost at all with Dreamweaver. You can simply switch to code view or a split screen of code view and design view. This is extremely helpful, if you use the WYSIWYG design view and look at the code as you go. You can actually learn HTML that way.

In any event, I think we're all on the same page here. A designer is a designer no matter the tools used. Do the best you can with what you have.

[TrafficProducer]

"hand-coded" a site how about Binary?

01110010 11100001, etc...

Agh! the good old days.

Hey that's a joke.

I just (argh!) use Front Page, but this sometimes can't cope so it's into the HTML tab to sort it out by hand.

Also I use PERL so this has to be done by hand although I sometimes use Front page to create the HTML which is copied into PERL.

Use the tools you have for the job you need to do.

[rubytuesday]

I consider myself a "hand coder". I do use an html editor, but it is much like notepad. It is called NoteTab Pro. I code the page and check the preview, then if that looks okay, I upload it to see the real view. I use SSI and CSS a lot so you can't see everything in the preview, but it is helpful especially when trying to debug nested tables.
I say that whatever works, works and there shouldn't be any stipulation as to who can do what with what. I learned hand coding first and personally prefer it to the WYSIWYG method.

[minstrel]

Originally Posted by DrTandem1

I may be mistaken, but isn't HomeSite a stripped-down early version of Dreamweaver?

No... Homesite was originally a freeware HTML editor (with a few basic bells and whistles) which was fast-loading and efficient but not WYSIWYG, created by Nick Bradbury (who I think was opriginally a cartoonist?). He also later created TopStyle and other programs.

He sold the rights to the program to Allaire, who started, of course, bloating it into something that was the opposite of what the original creator wanted (i.e., something small, fast, and efficient). At some point, it seems to have migrated into the Macromedia fold.

The problem, I think, is that the original program was an excellent basic HTML editor - the subsequent reincarnations attempted to make it into something else, something that would compete with things like Hot Dog and FrontPage and Dreamweaver, etc., but it never really worked.

Supplementary Information:

He was indeed a cartoonist and journalist initially. See this brief biography.

[russmann]

Originally Posted by minstrel

The problem, I think, is that the original program was an excellent basic HTML editor - the subsequent reincarnations attempted to make it into something else, something that would compete with things like Hot Dog and FrontPage and Dreamweaver, etc., but it never really worked.

Don't think I can agree with that one. I use Homesite 4.5 for everything, from HTML to PERL to PHP to flat file data manipulation. Dreamweaver I use for mocks and small sites where the template is mostly handcoded. DW + HomeSite make a great combination, best of both worlds.

[pstavrinides]

I have to agree with most of what has been said, and today’s tools are really incredible, but an important distinction must be made between having the knowledge to code without the use of the editor where you use it for rapid and simplified development, as opposed to not being competent without the use of an editor. Those who have been in the industry for a while will remember the days that notepad was the very best tool for a developer and every image was measured and cropped without the fancy editors and slice tools. This served to build the foundation upon which we have built our skills, without this foundation our skills could never have grow beyond an intermediate level. It is my strong opinion that you must still have knowledge of all the technologies you use otherwise you will be very limited in this line of work. The tools have changed and will change again but the technologies upon which they are built will remain the core of future products and services on the web!

[pstavrinides]

To extend on minstrel’s comments about Homesite...
Perhaps in today’s version of Homesite some of the initial concept has been lost but the original format of Homesite was always maintained until today. In other words, Allaire bought the rights and produced both Homesite and ColdFusion Studio, which extended the capabilities of Homesite whilst maintaining the concept of control for the Programmer leaving the HTML code in tact (FrontPage in particular, and Dreamweaver in the past would reproduce code the way the editor interpreted it making it frustrating to use for a career programmer), I believe that is why it took years and years for FrontPage and Dreamweaver to really make waves.

Developers loved the fact that ColdFusion studio and Homesite for that matter would not disturb the programmers code and just provided powerful features to increase the speed at which pages could be edited. Allaire became highly successful with their products and language and where bought by Macromedia a couple years back, they now provide the server side technologies for Macromedia products. Many of the features of ColdFusion studio have been incorporated into Dreaweaver now providing us with a truly great product. Sadly some features I personally enjoyed have been excluded, but may be re-introduced in future releases. Macromedia owns the rights to Homesite still and yes it has become a bit of a blown up Editor but perhaps the industry has demanded it.

[minstrel]

I suppose it's like any other product: you find something you really like and then someone comes along and makes a "new improved" version and you're left wishing they'd left the "old unimproved" version alone. It happened with Kraft peanut butter, my favorite shampoo, and even Coca Cola until the public outcry made them bring back "Classic"...

I loved the simplicity of version 1.x (I still have a copy of that one) and although I looked at later versions they just seemed to me to be bigger, bulkier, and slower...

Are you going to be using that rocking chair much longer? I think maybe I'll just sit a while and watch the young folks go by... ;0)