Are web designers expected to produce content?

[littlegiant]

Are web designers typically expected to produce content (i.e. find or produce photos, write copy)?

I was having a debate with someone this morning about this and they say yes and I say no. But if I'm wrong, I'll be the first to admit it.

Out of the handful of contracts I've done, only one of them required me to produce content and in this situation, the client themselves told me without my even having to ask them that they were paying me extra to do this. I thought this was the norm.

What's your opinion?

[MarcieZoob]

Your client is the expert in their field and you are the expert in yours. Your client should provide you with the content (their business info, logos, staff and facility photos). You then provide them with a well-designed web site or marketing piece that will perform for them.

How can you possibly do copywriting for a company that specializes in, say, exterior water-based varnish for log homes? (Obviously I'm using an example from recent experience.)

We disclose in our proposal / service agreement exactly what the client provides (photos, logos) and what we provide (design, SEO, submission). Sometimes you will need stock photos for filler but that's kind of a given.

[rivux]

I agree with Marcie completely, most designers couldn't write copy to save their life. So its in the best interest of both parties if the client supplies text and images. Though the designer still needs to have some understanding of the content as its difficult to design when you don't understand context or order of the material. But on the whole its up to the client to supply it all (though if its a matter of finding images for the design itself like stock photography then it may be up to the designer depending on the contract itself).

[laree]

I don't like to disclose my age, but in the old world of graphic/communication production... a client paid extra for copy writing, but they also paid for revisions beyond a set number of proofs (any revisions) and photo alterations (even for stock photography).

In todays day of on demand, our clients are expecting more and more. And with the market now flooded with some web "designers and developers" who will do almost anything to get the job, it is very difficult to rein those clients in.

I now include in all of my proposals a very detailed service agreement that outlines what is expected from the client. If they request that we take care of the content, then the quote for that typically has led them to do it themselves.

On the other hand, I do try to direct their content choices somewhat with a checklist of do's and dont's. And it is extremely important to become familiar with their products/services (content).

[jomariet]

I often adapt the content received for the web. Writing content for a website is different than for brochures or other forms of print communication. This is part of the service I offer and explained clearly in both the interview process and in my Letter of Agreement.

Most clients are thrilled to have the assistance. However, I have run into problems with clients who have a writing background. This is usually prevented with clear communiction in the initial stages of development.

As we explore what the website needs, the client and I are a team to develop that content. No, I can't write definatively on an industrial product but I can help sort through the existing content to create a website that achieves the client's goals.

JM

http://www.crucibledesigns.com
http://www.akalt.net

[eightfifteen]

The way I approach it is much like laree stated. I will write content and will take product shots for additional fees, but I still need direction on what the client wants to say, what the focus should be, the tone of the content, etc.

If you do not specify this early on, then you could be stuck taking 500 product shots on your own dime, along with endless revisions on the content.

[MarcGrobman]

I agree -- you need to specify how the content will be supplied. I think it is more usual for clients to supply the content, but we all know that that can be the biggest roadblock to getting a website done. And on less expensive jobs we specify that all of the FINAL copy must be provided before production will begin.

We'll do anything the client needs to develop content -- but, yes we charge. Of course there is a certain amount of proof reading that we offer. And we provide advice on the amount of content.

And yes we charge extra for copywriting and editing. It is also important to be clear that stock photography and custom illustrations are extra. We had a client who just couldn't understand that we couldn't create a bunch of custom illustrations for the site -- on a very slim budget. Now we are always very clear about that.

[megahertz28]

I usually do write all of the copy for my clients from materials they give me about their company. (cards, brochures, etc.) I know that this is probably not the norm but it is important thing for the client if they are concerned about SERPs.
Funny thing is that I just had a client that I created a site & wrote the copy, everything was great & he came up #1 in google in just a couple weeks. For some reason he went & changed everything all around & now doesn't show up at all. Guess who he blames for poor web stats? You guessed it. I think if you are going to take the time to carefully create & scrutinize copy, you should get something extra for it, & certainly not kicked in the teeth.

[cooper]

That is like asking if an editor of a publication ever writes copy or located content for the article. The answer is yes and no. No, the editor is not supposed to write copy, that is for the writers. The answer is yes, the editor reads and changes the copy that the writers suppply, gather content from various sources and prepares copy occassionally.

As others have pointed out in this thread, as a web designer/developer you are responsible for making the site look and perform to the best of its ability. Part of that is gathering the content and putting it into a structure that makes sense for the users. This sometimes means that you will have to sit at the keyboard in front of Word or some other text editor and bang away on the keys for a little while. Personally I hate doing it, but there are times when no one else is going to do it and it has to get done.

Think about it as a team effort.

[somethingelse]

I tend to agree... it's our job to help our client get their word up effectively AND we should get paid for lending that expertise accordingly.

I used to be among the "i'll do whatever it takes to get the job" folks... learned my lesson and am more detailed in my project outlines now... HOWEVER, many small businesses/entrepreneurs don't have a clue where to start or that there's even a need.

It's one thing when you're dealing with a large client with a marketing department, or a franchise package with all the copy you could possibly want, but when your client is a coach, or has just developed a new mousetrap, or whatever, chances are good they don't know much about marketing, writing for the web, or much of the other stuff they just ASSUME will be handled when they hire a web "person". AND often they are on a pretty tight budget... and/or have just been burned by a less than ethical or capable so-called developer...

Being ABLE to provide varied and extensive assistance - even at an extra cost - is important in these circumstances, I think. a) it keeps the project in the family, b) it reduces the number of cooks in the kitchen, and c) it builds trust with the client.

My clients rely on me to tweak their copy or write it completely from what they give me. Perhaps not a typical situation, but fortunately, I have a background in marketing, and a bit of a clue - tho I can't claim to be an expert by any stretch.
And I'm smart enough to know when i'm out of my league and need to HIRE that expert.

[gawdproductions]

Very well said! 'Know when you're out of your league and hire an expert'...
Most of us probably have some sort of marketing background and can supply valuable advice in regards to copy - but we really know only one business best - our own.

[sultan]

Originally Posted by littlegiant

Out of the handful of contracts I've done, only one of them required me to produce content and in this situation, the client themselves told me without my even having to ask them that they were paying me extra to do this. I thought this was the norm.

What's your opinion?

The norm? I don't think there is one. But ... by the time the contract gets signed ... you & your client had better both understand who will write the copy & provide the images for the site, and by what deadline.

I ask my clients a series of questions before we sign the dotted line. We discuss their existing marketing materials and any applicable changes needed to adapt those materials to the web. If they have no such materials available, I seize the opportunity to upsell the project.

My professional background is in marketing and advertising, so I'm used to developing scripts and press releases and other materials ... for a fee. If I know in advance that I will need to develop the text or shoot photos for a project, it's included in my price.

[virtualtraveller]

This topic perfectly demonstrates an issue I've always argued: that web design is only half the task of producing a website. It's annoying to me that people think of/or refer to web designers as the people who make websites. Actually it is the content people really that make the website, the designer simply provides a platform to display it. Of course there is plenty of effort and sophisticated techniques from a designer to make a website work, for sure their input is important - but without professionally written copy and a clear message it's only half a site.

We are content producers who became web producers. We outsource the design/build to 'designers' but the success of the site is based on our initiative and direction. For this we also need to know a fair bit
about design (and so we are rapidly learning from them). We take on the responsibility of assessing what message the client wants to communicate and then conceptualise something with the input of a designer. We use different designers according to different needs. But the most important task for us is researching and writing the information, often working closely with a representative of the client (in the case of highly specialist topics). Although we suggest to the client that they write us 'fact' sheets, under no circumstances do we leave the content writing up to them. For that you need proper copy writing to 'sell' your product or company.

IMO a web designer who presents a client with a site and leaves them to take care of the content themselves is short-changing them. If they wish to help their client provide a complete and professional site they should work in partnership with a content provider or copy writer. To design a site without a brief regarding the message that needs to be communicated or a clear vision of the content and how to present it is like making a movie without seeing the script.

As to the original question of 'should a designer' provide the copy; yes they should provide the service and it should be charged separately (often costing more than the actual design) and no the designer should not attempt to do it themselves, unless they are a skilled and experienced copywriter.

[pmhb]

IMH experience, there is no hard and fast rule to apply. All clients are different. Some have capable copywriting skills and provide text. Images are usually more difficult since few companies have adequate image libraries or their own.

Most clients want to say far too much about themselves, their products, their staff, their facilities, etc. Provided you have a good and honest relationship established, gentle pursuasion will help to reduce length and inappropriate content.

If clients want copywriting of a general nature, I can handle it but of course, it's at a pre-agreed cost. Similarly if I have to source images. Technical and semi-technical copy is more difficult but web sites don't often require that approach.

My overall philosophy is to do whatever is required to produce a website I am happy to show the next potential client. It doesn't always pan out that way, but most of the time it seems to work.

[JKomp]

It depends, did you agree to give them a web design or make them a web site? I think it's just important to be clear what everyone expects from the project before starting work. That's why before receiving the initial payment from a client I always ask: "What exactly are you hoping for from this project?"
It may seem a weird question to ask but i find the client is as happy as i am to make sure expectations are clear.

[Jason Tor]

If your contracted to design a site, your client provides everything and you design the site and implement the information they provide you.

If your contracted to develop a site, then it is generally up to you to design and develop their website. You research their business and their competitors and develop a complete web presence (and charge much, much more).

Jason Tor

[euanb21]

Perhaps we have been lucky with the developer we have chosen, but they observe and research the market each of their client operates in. They determine industry sizes applicable to online transactions and determine key strategies to successfully achieve this.

The content we give them is observed in light of their findings and edited accordingly. As jomariet correctly said, copy and content for a web site is totally different but having it examined by the developer before it goes live has been a godsend!

As Jason Tor rightly said, this costs much much more, but its a cost we dont grudge in light of our success.

Having a strong relationship with your developer will always help - we know our market, they know how it relates in an online environment and we meet monthly to bat idea's off one another.

[carju1]

As I supply a complete internet management service I clearly specify what the client gets in the contract but good content is more important than good looking design in my opinion.

I work with the client to produce the copy for the 'general' pages of the site - home page, contact us, and general pages. I will also do the general photographs and montages if needed. However the contract clearly states that product specific content and photographs are not included and I have a local photographer and an excelent freelance copywriter available at a charge if the client doesn't want to do it themselves.

What I do insist however is that all content is approved by me for Search engine optimisation phrases and word repitition.

carju1

[Pi Squared Technologies]

You could always do what I did and get a significant other who has their masters in english like I did. But now I just have to convince her to write for me :) (She currently works for a competing company though.)
But seriously---- I tell my clients that they are responsible for the content of the site and I just lay it out for them. And if they are reluctant and want me to write it I just show them my grades from my english classes in college and they gladly take on the writting . :)
Just Joking

[littlegiant]

Holy moley!

Thanks for all the detailed input, everyone! Much appreciated!

~ Robert

[ADAM Web Design]

Originally Posted by pmhb

IMH experience, there is no hard and fast rule to apply. All clients are different. Some have capable copywriting skills and provide text. Images are usually more difficult since few companies have adequate image libraries or their own.

Most clients want to say far too much about themselves, their products, their staff, their facilities, etc. Provided you have a good and honest relationship established, gentle pursuasion will help to reduce length and inappropriate content.

If clients want copywriting of a general nature, I can handle it but of course, it's at a pre-agreed cost. Similarly if I have to source images. Technical and semi-technical copy is more difficult but web sites don't often require that approach.

My overall philosophy is to do whatever is required to produce a website I am happy to show the next potential client. It doesn't always pan out that way, but most of the time it seems to work.

I agree 100% with this assessment. While I haven't produced copy that often for clients outside of the home page itself, I have edited it as I've put it on their websites. Most of the time, the corrections take between 30-60 seconds, and even 2-3 of those goes a long way toward cementing a long-term relationship with a client.

Images was an issue I struggled with until I did two things:

1) I bought GoDaddy's stock image CD (there's a surprisingly high number of useful pics on it for the $16.99 USD, including shipping, that I paid for it two years ago).

2) I invested in a scanner.

Once I did those two things, I solved 95% of my image issues. Every so often, I will go hunting for a stock image on iStockPhoto or the like, but very rarely.

I've also found that a lot of my clients have digital images of their products/services anyway, so it's not anywhere near the issue it was say 2-3 years ago.