Web Site Design Trends

[Pi Squared Technologies]

We all know that there are millions of sites to view on the web. But who are the trendsetters when it comes to layout and design? I have looked and looked but I have yet been able to find a site that showcases sites which display the latest trends in site design.
Does anyone know of a site I can take a look at?

[skyrocket]

These are the ones I turn to for inspiration...
http://cssvault.com/
http://www.cssbeauty.com/
http://www.csszengarden.com/

[blastradius]

I would check out the "portfolio" section of the topend web design and graphic design studios. If you are not sure who that is do some research to see who does the design work for companies like Nike, nintento, Coca Cola etc. Or of course you could just look at the site of these end companies, as you can be sure they will have employed the lastest trends.

[mikmik]

Wait, don't go!

Top Web Designs

Design Interact


Digital Web

Now, the biggy:
Digitalthread WebGallery

one more
Designers Jumpola

[Nigel Lew]

Hi, I pay attention to www.donbarnett.com his stuff is out of hand... him and his folly of photoshop wizards.

check out his multimdia stuff... there is alot of work on his site

Nigel

[Reesa Marchetti]

Hey, call me an old fogey but...

All the sites listed so far in these replies are overloaded with annoying flash. Some also have cluttered piles of text.

If this is trendy, I must be completely out of step with my clean, simple designs that succeed in boosting my clients' business.

Clean-clean-clean. Understated. Easy to follow. That's what makes elegant design, whether on or off the Web.

Just my not-so-humble opinion.

[mikmik]

I don't understand! Not one of these sites has flash, especially CSS sites. Most of these are about Corporate useability and or reference to hundreds of example sites.

There is hardly any flash at all, maybe in some of the ads, which are rare also.

I really don't understand that part of your reply.

I do understand this

Clean-clean-clean. Understated. Easy to follow. That's what makes elegant design, whether on or off the Web.

and I agree.

I see your point about being cluttered though, and you are 100% right about Clean-clean-clean. Understated. Easy to follow.

[greeneagle]

This is a hot topic, becoming more divided along the lines of Flash and CSS. We are in close contact with a Web Marketing and Sales firm that adamantly expresses that the public wants "FLASH AND BANG", a dynamic presentation, an internet commercial. I mean this firm needs to contract an armored trucking company!

The Search Engines, on the other hand, almost seem to be diverging into simplicity... max info, CSS, etc.

How do you meet the middle grounds - Actually ran into a Flash we couldn't get to work with validateable code today - bummed us out!

Come to find out it was produced from one of those "Flash Mills", where the clients type in a string of code and get what they want in a Flash Banner... Guess what, there was just no way to even hack that into W3C validation!

Obviously the W3C suggested standards are goals of many, but do they adequately address what the small business owner wants and/or the dynamic capacity and media available?

Look at the "DEEP POCKETS" here: http://www.2advanced.com/flashindex.htm

What do you think? What should the Search Engines pursue, What the Public Wants or what is best technically? Is their vision targeted on public reality, or do we have to submit to their technocratic vision?

Getting even more controversial; there has always been a chasm between "creative" and "technical", "artistic" and "scientific". and "left brained" and "right brained" --- Can anyone really find a good balance here?

Sure it makes "good sense" to "optimize", to "minimize", to "standardize"... But a lot of developers are saying: We are not going to submit to SE demands and especially GOOGLE domination, that's not what our clients want!

GOOGLE has anemically responded by "indicating" that they parse Flash. OK, do they really?, and just how effective is it?

Where do we go from here?

Ken

[Reesa Marchetti]

Oops, sorry Mr. Mik,

When I cited sites as having too much Flash, I was referring to ones mentioned in replies previous to yours such as Coca-Cola and Nike. I mean, whoa... Who wants to see all that every time they go to a site?

I find that clients who think they want Flash often are missing the big picture. Do they want customers to buy their products or just window shop? Someone told them their site is boring and Flash would spice it up.

I say, good content and organization will help more.

I'm not against Flash. It can be used tastefully to enhance functionality and navigation.

[jordanmcclements]

Greeneagle... Good questions.

I am not a big fan of flash, but I have to say that

http://www.2advanced.com/flashindex.htm

Blows me away!

I do agree that people should do what they/ their clients are happy with, rather than *just* trying to keep Google happy ...

But also, I agree with Reesa. On the majority of web sites that are not multimedia oriented, Flash is just an annoyance...

Horses for courses !

[greeneagle]

A PR6 in Google and YAHOO's indication of 27,000 IBLs are definite indications of popularity!, but let's don't discount "Ford's" monetary votes!

Did you check their portfolio?:
http://www.fordvehicles.com/cars/mustang/launch/
http://www.fordvehicles.com/cars/fre...possibilities/
http://www.fordvehicles.com/trucks/s...ings/index.asp
http://www.fordvehicles.com/cars/focus/index.asp

You want to talk "Raw Power"? It's there, Does it matter in any way if they present validated code? This is popularity at an extreme, does anything else matter in it's face?

Do you think they really give a rat's ass about clean code or validation? The first URL in the list above defaults to UTF-8 and doesn't validate!

The point being: There are many ways around the Search Engine Algs without being penalized - Popularity is forgiving, even in the search engines!

Ken

[MarcieZoob]

Ken,
Those Ford sites are great, especially the Mustang example. As a previous Mustang owner, I love the new design...but residing in northern (hilly, snowy) Michigan, it doesn't make sense to own one.

...boo hoo...

[greeneagle]

Where are you going Marcie? Should we go toward W3C validated HTML or dive out and go with what seems to be the popular vote and become "Flash Freaks"?. I can design flash: http://www.tubeltechnologies.com . Is that the path I/we should take?

You know, as human beings we are easily hypnotized by "Audio-Visual Flash and Bang", such as television, video games and slot machines "wailing and flashing" at us. Is that all it takes?

Is this all it takes to sell 1000s of Mustangs?:
http://www.fordvehicles.com/cars/mustang/launch/
Probably so! - But I personally like yellow better than red. Are they appealing more toward women or men in that ad? I could film that clip today, it wouldn't tak too many "takes" either!

What do you think?

Ken

[paulhiles]

I would like to add to the "trends" I've noticed myself. More and more clients are requesting that they would like to update part of their site themselves. So I guess Content Management could be said to be an increasing trend.

Also, the way in which content is offered. Print friendly versions, RSS feeds, etc. All the above are aimed at accommodating visitors needs, whilst increasing site functionality and should be considered in any design brief (IMO).

Paul

[greeneagle]

Paul,

I have a real problem with "unknowledgeable" clients adding content and screwing up SERPs!

Tell me something that can "budge" me off that stance!

Ken

[paulhiles]

That's a tricky one Ken! :o)
I know exactly what you mean.. and a quick chat about keywords to a client often leaves them more confused than enlightened! All you can hope for is that your efforts in areas they can't modify will be sufficient! :o)

Paul

[greeneagle]

Paul,

I just can't go along with the customer updates with any of my clients! God bless them.. I mean they are intellegent business owners, scientists and even physicists with patents,,, but they don't know s___ about the Internet, the search engines or SERPs! That's our market.

You know what else?... They don't care to.. and they want to find someone they can trust.. They don't even have time, managing their own business...That defines who we are!

In fact, we become their marketing arm, when we play the market right,
Ken

[paulhiles]

Internet, the search engines or SERPs! That's our market

Ken,

If you can illustrate this fact to them with stats, graphs etc then maybe you can temper their enthusiasm, or at the very least have them submit content to you for vetting prior to uploading. I know, I know.. in reality, it just wouldn't work like that! :o) <sigh!>

Paul

[greeneagle]

That's where we are at Paul.. and it's a wide open market! The question is which route do you take? Both seem to express validity and are supported in the SEs.. Is it just a question of what the client wants? Ohhh.. Do the clients even have enough knowledge to know what path to take?.. Or is that decision left up to us?
Ken

[mikmik]

Hey, Reesa! Thanks, I wondered if I was missing something - I often am LMAO! Thanks for clarifying.

There are a few directions that seem to be important, all mentioned here. I am wondering if 'specialization' is better; being adept at implementing CMS, or maybe webservices and XML, database/sql management, etc.

One not mentioned, though, is designing for small display PDAs and Cellphones. There is becoming an important niche for that now, including using simple outmoded graphics designs hahahaa. Oh, the irony!

[HHI_Golf_Guy]

I've found an easy way to let clients add all of the content that they want without doing any damage to the SERP's. Their pages are either put in a password protected members section or the pages are put in a directory that SE's don't crawl. To be on the safe side, I always create a template page for them with the noindex,nofollow meta tag already on the page.

Flash can be an incredible selling tool if you have a great artist and a decent programmer. But with so many people still on dial up connections, we stay away from full flash sites. Instead, we have graphics or text links that let users click on our "commercial".

It doesn't have the same impact as a full flash site - but then again there aren't as many people leaving the site because of load time issues.

[Andilinks]

I've spent a lot of time decompiling flash to extract text--it takes a lot of processing power with the text being hidden and dispersed in dozens, sometimes hundreds of nested frames. OCR on the site's image actually works more efficiently than decompiling so I am dubious about how well SE's can parse flash.

I think if you have a client that doesn't need to generate business with their website but needs something to dazzle current and prospective clients that they are courting through conventional means, go flash, go dazzle, charge a bundle.

But for ecommerce it's a loser.

If I may make a prediction: Flash, or something like it will dominate in five or ten years.

Andi

[janeth]

Originally Posted by greeneagle

Paul,

I have a real problem with "unknowledgeable" clients adding content and screwing up SERPs!

Tell me something that can "budge" me off that stance!

Ken

Getting a website ranked goes a lot further then just on site text.

[janeth]

Flash is really fun to watch, but if I´m looking for information online and a flash site comes up I shut it down before it even starts.

There are some business that can pull of a flash site, Ford, Coke, and other big companies that are already very well known.

But most business can not make money with a flash site.

[slideri812]

Wow, so many good points and good questions. In trying to see where things are going I am reminded to look back and see all of the great predictions made by industry insiders in the mid 90’s. Some of those predictions came true, most did not. Why? No one could have predicted the penetration of PC’s into the consumer market would have been so high in such a short period of time. No one believed Intel and others could squeeze so much power out of a chip without some huge breakthrough before hitting the imagined ceiling.

Remember the buzz about ecommerce replacing brick and mortar stores? Yeah, they didn’t count on the fact that shopping is a ritual and that people want to touch and feel the goods before they buy. So now ecommerce is part of businesses strategy and accents the store. Something we take for granted today.

Standards are similar. They are not hard fast rules. They are standards, an ideal goal based on information available at this time. As the tech changes so will the standards, there is no choice. Example: as true G3 for mobile devices comes online the need to feed the hungry masses will increase. And in classic style the industry will deliver, standards be damned.

So, flash is just another tool, and the SE’s will adjust to accommodate whatever trend looks like it is becoming established. Keep in mind that as flash and xml programming become more widely used that content will enjoy further separation from the wrapping thus lending itself to more relevant indexing, thus delivering the information sought.

Not to mention that the methods for creation are far greater than the method of delivery. All of these programming languages have to live together in a limited number of browsers. So for me the standards are a way to help make sure that the content is consistently presented, by the BROWSER. But I have to do may part too.

[jacobwissler]

This isn't about us; it is about the client. Does a chef refuse to serve a meal he might not wish to personally eat? Does a barber refuse to cut hair in a style that he dislikes? People who serve the public serve (but warn) the public.

Static text websites sell for very little money, because almost anyone can build one. Fancy Flash sites, I think his name is M-Theory, can bring top dollar. This is supply and demand.

The future is HTML text sites with Flash banners and graphics, such as Webproworld.

[greeneagle]

Janeth:
"Getting a website ranked goes a lot further then just on site text."

You are "dead on" Janeth! - and that is exactly the point, that scrapes the edge only... You know, I was introduced to "Marketing" as an "Engineering Manager" for a company... I have designed nuclear tools, storage and handling equipment for 3 curie AMBE (amercium-berillium) neutron sources.

Believe me those neutrons make a lot bigger holes through you head than electrons by many orders of magnitude!

That's what happened to me... I am sure!

Anyway - Yes there are many concerns that have to limit "uncontrolled" input into a Site... If an "unknowledgeable client" insists though , what do you do?

Do you just tie down the meta's and 1st hundred words at the top and let them go "downstairs" to their "hearts content" and we all call it "good" at the end of the day?

Ken

[greeneagle]

Jacob:
"This isn't about us; it is about the client."

I don't think anyone could word that better, but on the second hand "Rosie's sister; Palmala" says that we have to govern and administrate and advise and consult our clients down that "golden path"... or else we are not doing our job!

We have to throw in that element of education to the level they can accept and want.. don't go past there though... they just want to make sure you can deliver... and feel secure with your services... RIGHT?

Ken

[arpecop]

www.coolhomepages.com - all in 1

[Andilinks]

Once you have rendered your professional opinion to the client about what is best and you are sure they understand then your job is to give the client what they want, your opinion is irrelevant.

If the tension is too great you should decline the job because you cannot do your best work when you think your client is stupid.

Being paid well for work that is not necessarily your best can be a practical compromise though... :)

Andi

[slideri812]

Andilinks wrote:

If the tension is too great you should decline the job because you cannot do your best work when you think your client is stupid.

Being paid well for work that is not necessarily your best can be a practical compromise though... :)

I agree with this. We have one client in particular that wanted to maintain their own content. No problem, except from the beginning he dictated the layout, color scheme and other items about the site before we ever put together the fist original concept. The client is an interior designer, this does not qualify them as website designer and content manager.

We have a minimal criteria that a client must meet before we agree to provide a client maintained site (cms) <giggle>. This client not only neglected but refused to do the prelim work before we began design and final build.

So now we have an unhappy client that didn't take our advice then and won't take it now. The client has refused to dedicate the time to training and has had three people in the maintainers’ position in the past nine months. To top it off the client has bad ISP service and to date hardly any content.

Believe me, we have tried repeatedly to resolve this situation because it is our face and our reputation online when someone sees that site.

So, just because it is what the client wants doesn’t mean that is what is best for them or you. If we had to do it over again we would pass on this client and have every intention to pass on others like them in the future.

Not to mention photo optimization, keywords, spammy text and a host of other issues that can come with a client who wants “to take care of it themselves”.
Really, it has not been worth it. Careful screening is a must in these cases. The client doesn’t really get it until it’s to late, by then it’s to late.

[Andilinks]

The client doesn’t really get it until it’s to late, by then it’s to late.

Yes this is precisely what I meant. My comment about being paid well for work that is not necessarily your best is an acknowledgement that when times are lean you sometimes must take a job even though you know from the start that it will be a headache. When business is brisk it is easier to cherry-pick your clients.

Andi

[mikmik]

Yup, one bad client can be more trouble than ten or twenty good ones. That goes for any business.


But now... I found this report on a conference about the future shape of the internet :

Amazon already has 65,000 developers who are working on ways to plunder information on its site for their own ends. The payback for Amazon is the selling of more stuff through its site.

Unreal, eh?
Visionaries outline web's future

Data management, and delivery:

Universal access to all human knowledge could be had for around $260m, a conference about the web's future has been told.

The idea of access for all was put forward by visionary Brewster Kahle, who suggested starting by digitally scanning all 26 million books in the US Library of Congress.

His idea was just one of many presented at the Web 2.0 conference in San Francisco that aims to give a glimpse of what the net will become.

Experts at the event said the next generation of the web will come out of the creative and programming communities starting to tinker with the vast pool of data the net has become.

The rest on BBC ...

It has just seemed very apparent to me that a good foundation of XML is going to underscore every area of data management and presentation. Every thing I see is becomeing intertwined with XML, from graphics -SVG and Flash, to php, and markup language, also java and .net services; all web services.

I already am encountering it in most software and program/content delivery. It can be used to present mixed application content, and to transfer data between otherwise incompatible operations and applications.

It is far more pervasive than most of us realize.

I also just read about Internet delivery, and how advanced it already is in Japan and South Korea. 70% of the populations have internet access at, get this 20 Mbit/sec!!! That is it would take a 3.5 MB Flash or MP3 2 seconds to download!

Forget flash, start to learn Maya and 3D Studio Max LMAO!
Quick Guide: Broadband

World leaders are Japan and South Korea, where around 70% of households have a broadband connection of more than 20mb.
Future services will include video-on-demand and time-shifted TV

[Pi Squared Technologies]

Thanks everyone for you input on this. I will take a look at the links you provided and see where my design style falls in line with the trends.

[Jason Tor]

Originally Posted by greeneagle

Paul,

I have a real problem with "unknowledgeable" clients adding content and screwing up SERPs!

Tell me something that can "budge" me off that stance!

Ken

I charge my clients $150.00 an hour to teach them how to update their own site plus that much to fix their mistakes.....It only cost them half that much to have me update it with no mistakes.

After doing the math they almost always choose to have me do the updating.

Jason Tor

[Webnauts]

Originally Posted by janeth

Flash is really fun to watch, but if I´m looking for information online and a flash site comes up I shut it down before it even starts.

There are some business that can pull of a flash site, Ford, Coke, and other big companies that are already very well known.

But most business can not make money with a flash site.

Excellent post Janeth!

[greeneagle]

MikMik:

"Yup, one bad client can be more trouble than ten or twenty good ones. That goes for any business."

Good to see you around again. You are exactly right! - I fired a client not too long ago! If they are more trouble than they are worth, if they lie to and deceive you, and eat your time - CUT THE ROPES!
It's really that simple, but do it with "grace", respecting the past relationship - now that's a clear conscience!

LOL
Ken

[Pi Squared Technologies]

Well here I go again.
This same client has requested another site and, yes once again, she wants to have all kinds of things that just are not user (or SEO) friendly. She designed the layout of the site in illustrator and sent me the image and wants all kinds of animation and such that does not help her cause.
The site is her husbands construction company and she feels that the site needs no SEO done to it.
Well when the #'s come in on her traffic (for this site and others) she will understand.
Another thing that she does not get is that when she designs the sites in Illustrator (at 1500*2000 ppi) that the layout of the text changes because of the reduction in size of the images when it is sliced up and made ready for the web. if I were to reduce the text size to match te images then the text would be too small to do any good.
Well now I am just starting to sound like a complainer but what else can I do but make the sites the way she wants and then take the heat when she does not get what she wants. Sometimes I just want to tell her to let me do my job as that is what she has hired me to do or take her buisness elsewhere.

Thanks for all of the great input on this.

[Faglork]

1) I wait until SVG catches on. It gets you the best of both worlds: the BANG plus the validation plus the accessibility plus ...

2) I love *good* flash. But IMO 90% of all flash animations are "flash for flash's sake", having been put up on a website just from a "me too" perspective.

3) Good Flash *can* help you to sell, but then it has to offer something, it has to add additional value. Flash in itself will get you nowhere. Now, a good flash animation is not cheap. If you cannot afford it, stay away. Bad flash is just annoying, you will lose visitors.

4) As for the problem "flash vs. validation": there's an old saying - "you got to know the rules before you break them". If there is no way to validate a flash site, so be it. I am a sort of "validation fanatic", but there are always limits, nothing is perfect. We are living in a transitional time, where the browsers are just beginning to follow w3c specs. If for certain reasons you *need* an element which does not validate - as long as you know what you are doing (and the implications of your work), don't sweat.

OK, what trend do I see?

I see more and more lightweight CSS sites with all the visual glory of the old "a-thousand-nested-tables" school. The trend is to REALLY USE css, not just simply apply it as "substitute" for dated HTML formatting. There are a lot of things possible with comparably simple CSS - just have a look at the "Sliding Doors of CSS" http://www.alistapart.com/articles/slidingdoors/ and you will get the grasp. Or explore the CSS Zen Garden for some visionary work.

I expect "design vs. accessibility/validation/clean code/whatever" discussions to end, as they slowly become obsolete.

Alex