Google manipulating search results in favor of Adwords

[imagolfer]

Google, The Big Engine That Should (not do what they are doing).

I found that Google has manipulated their search results by requiring searchers to enter multiple search terms separated by commas in order to find my site. Otherwise my website www.pinespringsgolfcourse.com is not even in their results ranking according to www.googlerankings.com and my own google tool bar by entering a single search keyword phrase. I have tested it up to 1,000 positions. Not there.

When entering any of my search terms as a single keyword phrase, the only way searchers can locate me is via Google’s Adwords Ads. They show up when using only a single keyword phrase, as they should.

But, the manipulation is clearly evident when you enter three or more of my search terms separated by commas.

Then I rank #1, but there are no Adwords Ads on the page with the other regular listings. Strange, uh?

Their Adwords ads only show up with my adwords ad when you enter a single search term. This is normal and Google knows very well no one enters multiple search terms or phrases separated by commas.

Therefore, the ads do not show up when entering multiple search terms. They are programmed to show up with one term for the Adwords ads as my website is manipulated to only come up with multiple terms with separated by commas.

Further, even two search term phrases will not pull me up. The searcher must enter three or more search terms to see my regular listing separated by commas.

You can see the evidence for yourself at http://www.pinespringsgolfcourse.com...e_ranking.html. I have taken pictures of my browser and the google ranking tool and posted them to prove my findings. I have documented in detail what I am claiming.

See for yourself and keep in mind that I’m surely not the only one this is happening to. I posted a little information at Webmaster World a few weeks ago when my regular listings went MIA after signing up in the PPC program with Google and another company. I was furious and the other company gave in and “relisted” all my listings with all search terms. Google would not.

After repeated request from me asking where is my website was they just kept sending back emails stating everythig except where my site was. I told them I was not complaining about whether I was number 1 or 5 or 800. The point was that google bot had visited my site repeatedly but I was missing. I found out why I was missing.

After that post someone posted a reply stating the exact same thing happened to them. I have read many similar complaints. I can verify mine.

Everyone having problems with positioning should test their search terms, but I suspect they have other ways to hide websites also.

Michael

[Duncan Pollock]

Michael. You have me somewhat confused or are you, I'm wondering, not setting your AdWord campaign(s) up the way you could/should do.
Your ads appear for a variety of search words and phrases that you choose. They can be as many or as few as you wish, and the only thing that can go wrong is that an ad gets deleted because its CTR is below the minimum .5%
How, then, can you say that your ads appear only for a single word instead of a phrase? Are you using that one word alone as a keyword and not including the phrases you think should also make your ads appear?
In turn, I don't understand your reference to entering multiple phrases separated by commas. Since when is search supposed to be done this way? Surely, you enter one phrase at a time, find the results it produces, and then put in a second phrase for a second set of results, and so on and so on? The only place where phrases get separated by commas is your site's metatags, isn't it?
With all due respect, I'm tempted to recall the saying that "the fault, dear Brutus ...."

Duncan

[imagolfer]

Duncan,

You don't get it! Just click on the provided link and see if you begin to understand. You are making uninformed conclusions without viewing the details. My post clearly states that there are pictures available.

Do you work for Google?

Michael

[imagolfer]

Mr. Pollock wrote:
Your ads appear for a variety of search words and phrases that you choose. They can be as many or as few as you wish, and the only thing that can go wrong is that an ad gets deleted because its CTR is below the minimum .5%
How, then, can you say that your ads appear only for a single word instead of a phrase? Are you using that one word alone as a keyword and not including the phrases you think should also make your ads appear?
In turn, I don't understand your reference to entering multiple phrases separated by commas. Since when is search supposed to be done this way? Surely, you enter one phrase at a time, find the results it produces, and then put in a second phrase for a second set of results, and so on and so on? The only place where phrases get separated by commas is your site's metatags, isn't it?

Mr. Pollock,

I am not complaining that my site does not come up under the Adwords ads, THEY DO. My site does not show up in the regular listings anywhere within google's listings, UNLESS YOU ENTER MULTIPLE SEARCH TERMS. Then I rank #1, but the adwords do not show up and they should not show up unless you enter one keyword search term.

The point is google is manipulating their search results by requiring a searcher to enter THREE or more search terms to locate my site.

Visit the page with the link provided and see all the pictures of my browser and www.googlerankings.com browser and see if there is not manipulation by google.

I can not manipulate google's results. They obviously can!

Try all of my search terms in your own browser.

I am in the top five with MSN and Yahoo with each of my search terms. I was listed with google UNTIL I signed up with google's adwords program.

By the way, Google made up my ads using the search terms I gave to them.

Michael

[JayDrake]

Originally Posted by imagolfer

I am not complaining that my site does not come up under the Adwords ads, THEY DO. My site does not show up in the regular listings anywhere within google's listings, UNLESS YOU ENTER MULTIPLE SEARCH TERMS. Then I rank #1, but the adwords do not show up and they should not show up unless you enter one keyword search term.

I've looked at your screen capture, I've also done some quick searching and taken some time to look at your site. What I see is that your front page appears to be reasonable on the front end, with several mentions of golf course, Tyler, Texas which is where I started my own searching.

When I peeked at the source, however, I was horrified. It was quickly apparent that the web editor you use creates an awful lot of mess in your code that I recommend getting rid of or at least trimming down. Google's spider may not even see any of your content because of all the code it has to sift through to find it. Your index page does not validate and requires a plugin, both of which may cause trouble for Google's spider. In addition to these potential difficulties, when I checked for backlinks to your site I came up with a grand total of 1. From WebProWorld, as a matter of fact. While links from WebProWorld are certainly links and should count for something, it can be expected that the value should be fairly low based on the dissimilar 'themes'.

In all, I think it is preposterous for you to feel like your site should show up for single search terms above other sites which are better optomized for those terms like golfcourseportal.com which comes up first in a search for 'golf course tyler texas' (without the quotes) showing a listing of Pine Springs Golf Course.

Certainly when you begin to add more phrases or terms to your search that are on your site you will find yours floating to the top as you exclude those which do not include the phrases or terms you are looking for as being less relevant.

My recommendation is to spend time on cleaning the code of your web site, optimizing for those key phrases that bring you the most traffic (which can be determined from the successes of your paid listings) and generally work toward making your site better for both the Search Engines and your visitors rather than trying to find conspiracies that simply don't exist.

Originally Posted by imagolfer

The point is google is manipulating their search results by requiring a searcher to enter THREE or more search terms to locate my site.

Visit the page with the link provided and see all the pictures of my browser and www.googlerankings.com browser and see if there is not manipulation by google.

This does not show any form of manipulation. I cannot fathom how it is that you make a leap from your poor ranking to manipulation except that you would prefer to blame Google rather than yourself for poor rankings. I honestly do not mean to be insulting in any way, but your site needs a great deal of work from an SEO perspective. (Mine does too!)

Originally Posted by imagolfer

I am in the top five with MSN and Yahoo with each of my search terms. I was listed with google UNTIL I signed up with google's adwords program.

This is entirely irrelevant. There are certain things that are common between each of these and other things that are completely different. I have many top spots in Google that I don't have with MSN or Yahoo and vice versa. I would love to think that I knew how to please them all every single time, but I don't and until I do I can expect my performance to be partly good fortune, but holding to some very basic tenets will certainly help anyone out with most, if not all, of the Search Engines.

1. Clean, understandable and validated code.

2. Content. Lots of it with your target key phrases in mind.

3. Links. High profile sites are better. Sites in the same industry as you are better. Sites that you do not have to link back to are safer. There is no penalty for being linked to.

4. Patience. Do something. Wait. Watch. Tweak. Move on to something new.

[imagolfer]

Jay Drake wrote:

When I peeked at the source, however, I was horrified. It was quickly apparent that the web editor you use creates an awful lot of mess in your code that I recommend getting rid of or at least trimming down. Google's spider may not even see any of your content because of all the code it has to sift through to find it.
_______________________________________

You clearly have more experience than I have. I would gladly accept any and all the advice you are willing to give me.

Even accepting what you have to say still doesn’t exclude the possibility for my site being manipulated.

Googlebot has indexed my site over 10 times in the last month. They clearly know I’m there, they just don’t allow my site to be pulled up.

Yahoo and MSN have had no problem “seeing my site”. I have ranked in the top 5 of every one of my search terms since I started my website.

Google begins their explanation about how to rank by first emphasizing the word [b]“relevance”[/b] as to ranking. What is more relevant to a searcher? Links, backlinks, and more and more links, maybe some bells and whistles, or simply being able to locate golf courses in tyler or east texas by entering keyword phrases related to finding golf course in east texas?

A million links to and from my site doesn’t make me any more or less relevant to being a golf course in the tyler east texas area. However, you get 90% of irrelavent searches. But you always show up if you are a sponsered ad.

Also, google is the only search engine that produce the results I have documented with single and multiple results.

You picked “tyler texas golf course” as listing a directory that has me included. That is a directory, not my site. I am not listed under any of my search terms. The overwhelming presence of directories are using bait and switch techniques to lure you to their site only to find out their true goal is to sell vacation packages, from Las Vegas to Florida to around the world. How are they relevant to local search terms for area golf courses?

If a searcher enters “tyler texas golf course, east texas golf course, golf course in east texas, golf course in tyler texas, etc., I believe they are attempting to locate a golf course in tyler texas or east texas.

With all due respect, I think you are viewing my post through “google eyes”, as you so strongly did with Andilinks on her findings.

About conspiracies: Is it just a coincidence that my post is slipping down the page and older post are moving up, or is that just the way this forum works? I really don’t know, just curious.

By the way, I read dozens and dozens of post that claim they have the links and backlinks, all the bells and whistles, and still can't show up or are losing their ranking.

I can't stress enough that relevency should be king!!

Ok Jay, I've given you alot of questions. Can you respond to my post and issues without making the behind the door technical issues that Goolgle wants us to believe?

Again, googlebot has no problem "seeing my site". The dude comes by alot. I viewed their cache on my site and they had all pages cached.

Michael

[imagolfer]

Well I see how the forum works. You make a post and jump back to the top. Makes sense.

Micael

[imagolfer]

Well it seems so far that WebProWorld is more independent than WebmasterWorld.

I made the same post at Webmaster World about google and they deleted it very quickly!

Here is what they said:

From engine
Subject Re:Google manipulating search results in favor of Adwords
To imagolfer
cc Brett_Tabke,Shak
Date 5:57 pm on April 27, 2004 (utc 0)

Hi and welcome to WebmasterWorld.
I read your post and, regretably, I had to remove it from our system.
The WebmasterWorld Terms Of Service does not allow such specifics to be detailed.
In addition, with the nature of the alledgement, we need to consider protecting the board from potential legal disputes which may arise today or in the future.
Thanks for understanding.
engine
WebmasterWorld Admin
cc Brett Tabke & Shak

Does every deleted post get sent directly to Brett Tabke and Shak? Is that the basketball player?

Could the actual translation be this: We are in bed with Google and we must protect their interest. You can not be too negative against them. Maybe they have alot of stock riding on the upcoming IPO.

The "forum" can not be responsible for a person making a post of their findings and furnishing proof to back it up.

Didn't think of it before, but if I'm on to something, then maybe someone will get onto it.

Michael

[AceWildCard]

Welcome to the manipulative world of Google.
Ive been there , done that, especially when they pulled their famous "Update Florida" manouver.

With a PR 6 , and topping the charts my site was pulled for no reason other than it was successful.

Secondly I did take screenshots and kept them for memories as well as proof of their actions.

Next problem, any time at the forums at webmasterworld.com that I say anything with evidence that proves google was guilty of manipulating results, the post simply doesn't get allowed at the webmasterworld.com forum. I feel there is insiders there as well, as speculated by many others worldwide. I get an angry rude response from the administrators there, or they simply delete my posts, even if i change identities and point out evidence politely. I rarely go there anymore, no sense, cant trust the google news anymore, god knows what will pull next.

I do not go to the webmasteworld.com website without first flushing my temp/cookies, in fear of their monopolizing search result tactics. I have found and read many issues regarding sites being pulled because of insiders at that forum.


The bigger they are, the harder they fall.
Won't be long before we all find out "inside" deciept from their employees.

My moto is "Submit everywhere else", and don't let them get their hands on my information, they don't deserve it :). Don't let them worry you, worry about every other search engine. You'd be lucky to be in #1 spot on google for any time, because of their "Manipulative Result Manouvers".

They took the "Search" out of "Search Engines" and installed "Manipulation".

Theres my 2 cents.
Do I trust and like google? No.
Reason why? They disrespected both myself and thousands of businesses worldwide.

I dont trust a damn thing they do.
Welcome to the world of google chap.

[cbp]

I know this was a private message to me from Iam agolfer, but I am posting the message here for a public response as the sillyness of it deserves it:

You must not be paying attention or you must work for google.
Want proof?
See my post Google is manipulating search results in favor of Adwords.
You can see proof for yourself at the link provided.

Obviously you believe in conspiracy's to accuse me of working for Google - that is a silly allegation. I do not. As for not paying attention, that is another silly allegation - I am actually in Australia and for the last 12 hours have been having dinner with my wife, having a 8 hr sleep, went to the gym, had breakfast - so I am not ignoring this thread - I just live in a different time zone!!!. You have again painted yourself as a blinded conspiracy theorist by making such silly claims. Just based on this alone, I can tell whatever your wrote is likely to be wrong - but I will read it anyway.

You are very wrong in what you are saying and what you are offering is not even close to proof. Duncan Pollock and Jay Drake have offered some good advice - take it. There is plenty of other good advice here at WPW on how to rank better.

Your site just ranks poorly due to changes in teh Google ranking algorithm. Nothing to do with Adwords.

If you choose to follow some other threads here you will see that sites come and go all the time - ie their ranking changes. I have some sites that increased in the ranking when I started using Adwords - others decreased. One site recently had a big jump in rankings - the only thing that was different is that I changed the ceral I had for breakfast on that day. All you are claiming is that your site went down when you started using Adwords - hey, I clapped my hands and the phone rung .... cause and effect?? I have seen many sites go up when they started using Adwords (cause and effect?). I have seen them go down ...

You really have two choices:
1) Believe in this conspiracy, continue paying for Adwords and continue to rank badly
2) Get over it, work out what the problem is, improve your site (its only PR4), etc

The problem with believing in the conspiracy of (1) is that it blinds you to trying to find the real reasons in (2).

CBP

[jstarkweather]

Lol...I thought the staff here was a bit anti-Google when I first started getting my emails.

Guess it's all in the eye of the beholder.

I think you should fix your site and then come back when it's fixed. Otherwise you are just expending a lot of energy over something you can't control.

Jim

[jstarkweather]

Oh and you should definately change your <TITLE> tag to read:

<TITLE>Pine Springs Golf Course of Tyler, Texas</TITLE>

Title tags are very highly weighted by all search engines.

Cheers,
Jim

[Duncan Pollock]

Michael: Other posts have shown that we're here to help you not heap praise on Google. As cbp suggests, you'd be better to drop the conspiracy idea and look at the consensus you're being presented with.
In any case, the whole purpose of AdWords is to give you a position on the first page of results regardless of where/whether your site itself appears.
This is what you pay for and that is what you're getting whenever anyone punches in one of your keywords (although I still raise my eyebrows at your idea that people will punch in multiple phrases separated by commas). But there's no mention whatsoever by Google that one of the benefits of an AdWord campaign is a guaranteed, let alone better, natural search position.
And sure, their idea is to make money every time someone clicks on your ad, but, forgive me, what in heaven's name are you wanting people to do instead? Keep drilling down through the result pages until they find you and then click on your link rather than on your ad, which they've been able to see -- and will have kept seeing -- from page one on?!
If you don't want to continue with Ad Words, drop them -- which you're free to do any time because Google doesn't make you sign up for a non-cancellable period.
And no, I don't work for Google any more than any other WPW member does that I'm aware of. However, we do try to make sense of what Google does and to govern ourselves accordingly -- as we're urging you to do.

Duncan

[imagolfer]

Mr. Pollock,

You still are missing the mark.

I stated that NO ONE USES MULTIPLE KEYWORD SEARCH TERMS. BUT THAT DOING SO IS THE ONLY WAY YOU CAN LOCATE MY SITE.

You need to stop responding until you review all of my screen shots that proves my allegation.

How can you continue to reply without even taking a look at my screen shots of my findings.

I am very suprised that you still think I think searchers use multiple search terms.

I am claiming that Google is using manipulation so that SEARCHERS MUST USE MULTIPLE SEARCH TERMS SEPARATED BY A COMMA to find my site. Every one knows people only use a single keyword or keyword phrase as a search term.

Please read and view my screenshots and then I think you will get my point.

Michael

[cbp]

You need to stop responding until you review all of my screen shots that proves my allegation.

Absolute rubbish. They don't come close to proving your allegation - haven't you noticed that no one beleives you?

Your site just ranks poorly. Period.

I think its pretty obvious why (eg keyword placement; lack of links etc)

CBP

[Dave Hawley]

Why do I have visions of imagolfer posting with alumina foil wrapped around his head :o)

imagolfer, you will never listen or take heed of anyone that is not singing from your book.

[imagolfer]

cbp,

Your integrity suffers. You should be ashamed of yourself.

You intentionally misrepresented the email I sent you. That email was in response to your defending google so strongly against the post that Andilinks posted on a similar subject. My entire post to you is right there under your post of you criticizing her findings on google search corruption. She made the same comment of not paying attention in the market.

I have read many of your post and you always defend google. I not only told you who I was, but told you to read my post. You have made multiple posts putting down people who make negative comments about Google. I referred you to my post to see proof in the pictures.
_________________________________________________

cbp wrote:
I know this was a private message to me from Iam agolfer, but I am posting the message here for a public response as the sillyness of it deserves it:
Quote:
You must not be paying attention or you must work for google.
Want proof?
See my post Google is manipulating search results in favor of Adwords.
You can see proof for yourself at the link provided.
_________________________________________________

Did you hire a private investigator to determine who sent the PM, or did you just look at the top of the email? My full name was there. Very ignorant statement inferring that I was trying to hide who I was.
_________________________________________________

Cbp wrote:
Obviously you believe in conspiracy's to accuse me of working for Google - that is a silly allegation. I do not. As for not paying attention, that is another silly allegation - I am actually in Australia and for the last 12 hours have been having dinner with my wife, having a 8 hr sleep, went to the gym, had breakfast - so I am not ignoring this thread - I just live in a different time zone!!!. You have again painted yourself as a blinded conspiracy theorist by making such silly claims. Just based on this alone, I can tell whatever your wrote is likely to be wrong - but I will read it anyway.
_________________________________________________

My stating you must not be paying attention was regarding your refusal to accept in any way that google could be corrupt in different posts you have made. You are blinded.
__________________________________________________

Cbp wrote:
You have again painted yourself as a blinded conspiracy theorist by making such silly claims. Just based on this alone, I can tell whatever your wrote is likely to be wrong - but I will read it anyway.
__________________________________________________

Wait a minute, you have made an entire post misrepresenting my statement to you, stating you can tell I am wrong, yet you haven’t even read the evidence presented. And I’m blinded!!! You are the one blinded and all “google eyed”. Now do you see how bias for google you are?
__________________________________________________

Cbp wrote:
I am actually in Australia and for the last 12 hours have been having dinner with my wife,
__________________________________________________

Having dinner with your wife for the past 12 hours…just how big are you?

It is amazing that the most critical replies are from folks taking up for google WITHOUT viewing my evidence.

That is what makes you and the others that put down the notion that goggle is doing what I claim seem bias in favor of google. Why do you and others like you spend so much time making posts against negative ideas or statements about google? You do not first review the facts and understand the allegation, you just start putting down the post and adamantly defending google. Or, maybe you just will not comment on the evidence after reading it in order to cloud the air with negative comments about the post.

By the way, you like repeating "I clapped my hands and the light came, but clapping my hands had nothing to do with the lights coming on".

I have a better one that usually rings true: Where there is smoke, there is fire. There are far too many allegations and google won't take the witness stand.

Michael