The REAL Reason I Don't Like GMail

[flood6]

What follows started off as a reply to a PM from richkoi. You see, I went off topic over here and richkoi PM'd me (very nicely) to ask what I meant.

Then I set off to jot a couple of sentance in reply and ended up ranting. I have read several GMail rants lately, here's mine:

Thanks for the PM, let me say that what I know about Gmail is from what I've read and heard. I don't have a Gmail account and don't know anyone personally who does.

Well, I realize that ISP's and webhosts have to scan mail to some degree in order to provide their services, so I know that email privacy is limited to some extent anyway.

But, google scans every email and archives it to make it searchable. Think about an extreme case of someone whose email privacy is especially important (I admit they are extreme cases, but it could happen on lesser degrees too): a Cuban man emailing relatives in the US, someone unhappy with the government (whichever), someone trading mp3's online, someone cheating on their wife, etc., etc. Many of these emails will end up on Gmail's datacenters.

“But they are scanned and read by machines, not humans”. Do you think the fact that they are categorized, indexed, and painstakingly organized by machines is a good thing? The fact is that with google’s search technology, someone COULD find the email where you told your friend that you like to dress up in women’s clothes that much faster and easier.

Any such extensive (imagine 1 billion gmail subscribers with 1 gig of storage each) storage of emails will be a target for abuse. A google employee who has access to the email database finds naked pictures of some political candidate and posts them on the web. Hackers look for emails where grandma emailed her credit card number because she doesn't know any better. Chinese government officials bribe a google employee to look for information about political dissidents. The FBI gets a search warrant to check google's data center looking for kiddie porn, but stumble across your email telling your buddy how you cheat on your taxes.

Think about all the ISP's who were court ordered to release personal information so the recording industry could prosecute mp3 traders.

Not to mention, the common screw up: a bug occurs where for only 15 minutes every Gmail user can search everyone else’s email.

I'm not a very creative person; imagine what someone with a lot of talent and some time on their hands can come up with. I'm certain there are a million different scenarios where this HUGE treasure chest of personal information could be made available to one person or another.

"If you don't want your email kept in Gmails database, don't get an account". I can't email someone with a Gmail account either. "Then don't email Gmail addresses". People forward emails all the time, even by avoiding Gmail completely at least SOME of my email will end up in a Gmail inbox. I email clients all the time, perhaps you can afford to turn away clients with gmail addresses; I can't. If (when) Gmail takes off like mad you can put an "I don't exchange email with Gmail users" message at the top of your checkout or “Contact Us” page if you want, and then just go ahead and do a 301 redirect to my site for Gmail users.

Sure, ISP's and webhosts are targets for all of the above. But each one is on a minute scale compared to Gmail. Not as attractive to abusers, not as many potentially abused in any one place.

Even if none of the above were remotely possible (if you think any of the above is impossible you’re kidding yourself) google has still done a horrible job of educating the public, online retailers, and online service providers about their new product. I don’t watch much TV, but I get my news online from several different sources, I listen to the radio, I read the newspaper, and I read industry magazines. I haven’t heard the first thing to put me at ease about my concerns. At the very least they should sack their PR (not PageRank) guy.

While I feel that all the arguments above are valid to one extent or another, I have to admit, the truth is simply this: I communicate with clients (retail, webservice, and day job) by email. I do not want an email I send them about their order, their website, their new facility, whatever, to trigger an ad from one of my competitors. Right as I am about to close a deal, the Gmail user looks in the right column at the highly targeted ads and sees an (apparently) similar item or service for a lower cost and chooses to go elsewhere. I don’t want my newsletters I work so hard on (heaven forbid I ever find some advertisers to pay me to list their ad in my newsletter) to trigger an ad for a competitor. My work is copyrighted, in this example my competitor and google ($0.23 per click, baby!) profited on my work WITHOUT MY PERMISSION. That’s the REAL reason I don’t like the idea of gmail.

Drive home safely, don't forget to tip your waitresses.

[richkoi]

Good points! Thanks for the post. I understand your opinion better now.

I can see how if you send an e-mail to a person with a Gmail account, there could be a privacy concern.

But, as far as the people who sign up for Gmail, it is their choice. If they are not worried about the privacy, no one should stop them.

Rich

[xoltaric]

I don't see how this concern is any greater than with any other email provider.

Have there been any issues with anyone breaking into hotmail databases and pulling credit card information? Yahoo! Mail does offer a search feature and while no doubt Google's service provides better indexing and *potentially* more data to draw from.. I don't see the big difference.

With spyware, hacking, phishing, sniffing and everything else that's out there that can steal your data... you're honestly going to single out gmail.com acounts and not send email to them or anyone who might forward your mail to them???? Don't you think that energy would be better spent reducing, eliminating or encrypting the personal information you publish on the internet? Assume everything can be intercepted, assess the threat level and post at your own risk.

Finally... though I understand your newsletter arguement... I don't agree with it. Yes it is unfortunate that scenario might (well, will) happen.. but once that email leaves your mail server you have no control over what happens to it. If your recipient chooses to be at yahoo.com, hotmail.com, gmail.com or weharvestsendersemailaddressesandsendeveryonespam. com that's up to them. Your scenario actually sounds like an opportunity to me... maybe you can find a way to turn it to your advantage.

[flood6]

Well, this is certainly an issue that people won't be able to agree upon until:

1. Gmail becomes the standard in web-based email and no one cares about the few remaining nay-sayers like myself.

2. Gmail flops/gets outlawed/whatever and privacy groups get their wish. And it's not large enough to matter.

3. Gmail changes from it's current form.

Thanks for your comments, xoltaric. I added a few comments to yours. I certainly don't want this to become an arguement. I'm just going to keep spouting my anti-Gmail propaganda until one of the three options above occurs, lol.

Originally Posted by xoltaric

I don't see how this concern is any greater than with any other email provider.

I think the terabytes of data that gmail will have stored is going to be too sweet a prize to be overlooked by abusers. I get 6mb on my yahoo/spam address because I signed up for it so long ago. I think they give like 4mb now. Imagine each user getting a full gig; this will place this data in a diffrent league than the rest.

Originally Posted by xoltaric

Have there been any issues with anyone breaking into hotmail databases and pulling credit card information?

Yes. For a while there was a hack floating around that would let you gain access to Hotmail users' accounts. All you had to know was their email address.

Originally Posted by xoltaric

Don't you think that energy would be better spent reducing, eliminating or encrypting the personal information you publish on the internet? Assume everything can be intercepted, assess the threat level and post at your own risk.

I keep what personal information I publish on the internet to a bare minimum. It's more than I'd like to publish, but I have to let current and potential clients find me.

Originally Posted by xoltaric

...once that email leaves your mail server you have no control over what happens to it. If your recipient chooses to be at yahoo.com, hotmail.com, gmail.com or weharvestsendersemailaddressesandsendeveryonespam. com that's up to them.

Sure, but with google's highly targeted ads, it's a guarantee that clients and recipients will see my competitors. Right now they may be looking at a popup for spy cameras at Hotmail, or a banner for cheap airfare at yahoo, neither of which will effect my clients' decision to purchase from me.

Originally Posted by xoltaric

Your scenario actually sounds like an opportunity to me... maybe you can find a way to turn it to your advantage.

It is certainly an opportunity for gmail advertisers. You can get lots of face time for obscure, cheap keywords. Bidding on "Garrett French" will get your ad in front of WebProWorld and WebProNews subscribers, for example. Bid on your competitor's email address to get placed in front of their newsletter subscribers.

[xoltaric]

Originally Posted by flood6

Thanks for your comments, xoltaric. I added a few comments to yours. I certainly don't want this to become an arguement. I'm just going to keep spouting my anti-Gmail propaganda until one of the three options above occurs, lol.

lol.. this is just a good natured discussion... a debate perhaps.. who knows maybe some google hack will find a solution to satisfy both sides from reading our thread... unlikely but Google is all seeing and all knowing. ;)

My comments:

Originally Posted by flood6

I think the terabytes of data that gmail will have stored is going to be too sweet a prize to be overlooked by abusers. I get 6mb on my yahoo/spam address because I signed up for it so long ago. I think they give like 4mb now. Imagine each user getting a full gig; this will place this data in a diffrent league than the rest.

I get 6mb on my yahoo account too.. thankfully I've been lucky not to get much spam at all. Regardless.. seeing as Yahoo and Hotmail have been around for so long it with so many users would seem to me that based on your arguement, their datacenters would be a huge target right now. I'm not saying they're not.. but I am saying it's not going to change the fact that I use yahoo as my primary personal email. I don't see the threat level as being exponentially higher.. even with more information stored at gmail.. seems to me it would be more of the same information. In the 1000 messages I've got saved at Yahoo! I'm sure I've mentioned dressing up in women's clothing once or twice. :)

Originally Posted by flood6

Yes. For a while there was a hack floating around that would let you gain access to Hotmail users' accounts. All you had to know was their email address.

And yet millions still use Hotmail and don't even think of it. Gmail, like Hotmail, wouldn't be in business if they couldn't respond to threats against their data... Not to say that I trust hotmail..

Originally Posted by flood6

I keep what personal information I publish on the internet to a bare minimum. It's more than I'd like to publish, but I have to let current and potential clients find me.

Then you really have little, if anything, to worry about. :)

Originally Posted by flood6

Sure, but with google's highly targeted ads, it's a guarantee that clients and recipients will see my competitors. Right now they may be looking at a popup for spy cameras at Hotmail, or a banner for cheap airfare at yahoo, neither of which will effect my clients' decision to purchase from me.

Not necessarily a negative effect. Your customers are reading an email from you and only seeing maybe 10 words from your competitors. Granted they are likely to click on the ad (a cost for your competitor btw) and then you would hope it would depend on who has the better product offering. If that's not you maybe you have bigger things to worry about than Gmail. :)

Originally Posted by flood6

It is certainly an opportunity for gmail advertisers. You can get lots of face time for obscure, cheap keywords. Bidding on "Garrett French" will get your ad in front of WebProWorld and WebProNews subscribers, for example. Bid on your competitor's email address to get placed in front of their newsletter subscribers.

Isn't there a policy against stuff like that at Google? Regardless, I see your point. I'm sure I'm going to see some wacky ads in the next couple months on Gmail while Google referees the advertisers jostling for placement. I don't see that as a reason to pull the plug on the whole thing. Besides, wouldn't you be advertising to Gmail's clients with your newsletter? You seem to be on their turf... Sure the email marketing landscape may change but ultimately it's your prospective clients who are already reaping the benefits of gmail.. even before your newsletter gets sent. Kind of presumptuous to condemn your clients' choice of service providers.

Long live Gmail. ;)

[pedstersplanet]

All this talk about hacking/etc hotmail & yahoo accounts. One of my online mates uses her hotmail for everything, even her banking and house correspondance. I was so shocked to hear this, but she had no idea why I was concerned. I told her, so now she uses her ISP pop account (only for important correspondances) - ok, they are not 100% secure either, but.

I will never use a hotmail/yahoo/gmail/etc account for important information, coz I'll know what would happen.

I am just waiting for a spam message from a @gmail.com account in the near future, coz most will use it for that. Well, its just a hunch that I have lol :)

[Maureen]

I’ve never been a fan of “web mail” and I too was skeptical when I read the first few gmail articles. I’ve had my account for about 3 weeks now and I have to say; I like gmail more than I thought I would. It will never replace my existing POP accounts for business purposes but the search feature is just awesome. I have no patience for “outlook” searches so in a pinch I forward a chunk of mail to gmail just so I can find something in a hurry.

[steveteva]

You might don't like Gmail but as a user of Gmail, I love it, I will close all my other webmail accounts (hotmail, yahoo....) as Gmail provide 1gb, no pop ups or banner ads... just Adword and clean webmail adress (no more 1232myfirstname@yahoo.com but myfirstname@gmail.com)
All features are included like Spam filters, search mail or web, stared message, check spelling...

GREAT

Thank you Google.