Isn't PageRank Important?

[Webnauts]

Since Google discontinued displaying the PageRank in their webmaster tools I am reading in many forums that PageRank is not important and that Google will remove the PR toolbar too.

But what do you think about all this? Is PageRank not important?

Lets see what Matt Cutts has to say about that: YouTube - Does the size of a website affect its authority in Google?

[weegillis]

Is PageRank being discontinued? or is it still viewable through other data collection sites?

Is popularity important? Yes. Is this not just fashioned into a stanine type of score (as opposed to standard normal distribution) to arrive at PageRank?

From the above video I can only conclude that having several popular pages is better than having several pages. Not sure where the connection to the poll is though. Am I missing your point?

[crankydave]

As long as PageRank is a metric, yes, it has importance. But AFAIC you don't need to know what that PR is.

I hope it disappears from view completely.

Dave <---- having trouble deciding what poll choice to choose

[kgun]

John.

I think Google still invert the Web's link matrix and use it as an input to one or more metrics. So my answer depend on what you mean by important. Important for what?

1. Important part of the algorithm. Definitely yes.
2. Important as a SERP ranking factor? There is an indication that the imortance has decreased. SEOmoz | How Google's Rankings Algorithm Has Changed Over Time

[morestar]

Well I am under the impression that page rank has to do with the amount of links (link juice) you get from other sites.

maybe google wants us to focus NOT on page rank so that we naturally link to other sites and NOT 'try' to get links from sites with high PR.

I guess in google's eyes, if we don't seek out sites with high page rank to link to us, then we will get natural links which is what they really want right?

[weegillis]

Link juice would appear to be sliding in relative importance, if we are to believe the article that kgun points to. This trend will only continue as machines get smarter at reading and understanding a page's content and relating it to the overall web.

The time may come when SE's actually supply the IBLs to sites it thinks should be connected. 'Similar pages' is just a shadow of what it might become.

[kgun]

Originally Posted by weegillis

Link juice would appear to be sliding in relative importance, if we are to believe the article that kgun points to. This trend will only continue as machines get smarter at reading and understanding a page's content and relating it to the overall web.

In a sense, I see the web's linkmatrix as an anchor or a reference system if you prefer.

[notsoold]

Page rank is important if you want to sell links in your site. Otherwise it is not.

[zeruel]

It is indeed important but not in a way that it becomes the only basis of rankings. Some people consider as the most important factor for ranking which I really think is not what's happening nowadays. Maybe 1 or 2 years ago, I can feel the power of PR in terms of rankings.

But things change, and we can't just base everything on PR. It can be "one of the factors" for ranking but not the "only" factor...

my .02 cents...

[kylelmoon]

Google is only just hiding it from us.
It think page rank has some importance. Like in terms on the frequency our site gets a visit from Google. It clearly has some effects on how we rank on the SE.

[Hafsoh]

To me the visible toolbar PR is probably not too useful spimply because it does not convert to traffic. However, the Google internal PR system is very important.

[claybutler]

I would say, judging from how you can manipulate the serp's with proper use of inbound anchor text, that the importance of inbound links has never been higher. Personally, I think Google pays way to much attention to links. This is the reason we have a whole link building industry. It's a reaction to Google's algorithm and its dominance in the market place.

But it's understandable because actually reading a web page and understanding it's context and content is very difficult to do from a programming point of view. People can do it easily, but a machine cannot.

So Google places emphasis on links with the assumption that links equals votes. It's based on the citation principle in academic research. It's crude but when combined with other factors, it seems to deliver fairly accurate results.

Google's PR is rough estimate of that link value.

I don't see it going away anytime soon. Hidden yes. Abandoned, no.

[SemAdvance]

PageRank will remain a Google Internal metric.

Toolbar PR indicator will disappear. Probably before years end....

By eliminating Toolbar PR indicator, Google will actually be able to operate without the headaches they encounter now.

And to be honest if a PR 2 site can rank # 1 over a PR 5 site, then somewhere somehow somethings broken, if the PR is the important issue others think it is.

Maybe we can develop a Toolbar with Blue ink???

[Optimist5]

I read somewhere that Google crawls and indexes you more frequently and deeply depending on Pagerank.

[douger]

PageRank holds little importance when looking forward. It's not dead yet. But it is getting pretty old...

[Big Juice]

Whether or not PR has a value is not important. The thing that is important is the fact that Google lies to us about it.

Don't buy into their lies; Google is EVIL!

[John]

So if the big G is "decommissioning" PR, does that mean we all can remove our NOFOLLOWs from advertising?

[Webnauts]

Originally Posted by Optimist5

I read somewhere that Google crawls and indexes you more frequently and deeply depending on Pagerank.

If you watched the video I have posted at the opening my thread, that is what Matt Cutts is talking about.

[Webnauts]

Originally Posted by John

So if the big G is "decommissioning" PR, does that mean we all can remove our NOFOLLOWs from advertising?

Big Google is not "decommissioning PR". So be very careful with affiliate links.

[Webnauts]

Originally Posted by douger

PageRank holds little importance when looking forward. It's not dead yet. But it is getting pretty old...

I am affraid that if someone is old that must be you. The released PR patent is old, but not the algorithm itself. They are updating the PR algorithm continuously, but they do not share the updated with the public.

[Webnauts]

Originally Posted by claybutler

But it's understandable because actually reading a web page and understanding it's context and content is very difficult to do from a programming point of view. People can do it easily, but a machine cannot.

That is not anymore the case. It is no more difficult doing that from the programming point of view. Google and Yahoo began supporting RDFa.

[Webnauts]

Originally Posted by Hafsoh

To me the visible toolbar PR is probably not too useful spimply because it does not convert to traffic. However, the Google internal PR system is very important.

Who said that a toolbar has something to do with converting traffic? Are we serious here?

[Webnauts]

Originally Posted by kylelmoon

Google is only just hiding it from us.
It think page rank has some importance. Like in terms on the frequency our site gets a visit from Google. It clearly has some effects on how we rank on the SE.

If you pay attention to a few seconds of the video starting at second 29, you will realize that it is not just of some importance.

[Webnauts]

Originally Posted by notsoold

Page rank is important if you want to sell links in your site. Otherwise it is not.

Should we vote this post as the funniest post of the year? You got my vote already.

[Webnauts]

Originally Posted by weegillis

This trend will only continue as machines get smarter at reading and understanding a page's content and relating it to the overall web.

I am running many tests on many web sites, and I can tell you that you are definitely right! Great post!

[Webnauts]

Originally Posted by crankydave

I hope it disappears from view completely.

I am with you on that Dave.

[Tubby]

webnauts asked
"Should we vote this post as the funniest post of the year? You got my vote already."

I think the statement has merit.

[Webnauts]

Originally Posted by Tubby

webnauts asked
"Should we vote this post as the funniest post of the year? You got my vote already."

I think the statement has merit.

Tubby I just realized that I did a mistake. I did not start this thread in my social group. next time I will be more careful. My brain is exploding from too much work and too less sleep.

But now I am definetely going to bed. Well, I hope...

[deepsand]

Seem's to me that Matt's pretty clear in saying that "if you want us to focus more closely on you, get others to first do so."

[Tubby]

maybe we need a new rank.

SSRVR rank

Specific Subject Relevance Value Rank

To find it we need only type a 'specific search term' into google and see what page come out on top . . . OH.... We already have that!

[weegillis]

Webnauts: Well now you've let the Gini out of the lantern, you can't very well just shove him back in. Finish with your other two wishes! (jk)

[innominds]

As long as Google considers it, I believe PageRank is important.
If Google doesn't treat it as a metric, then it's not important at all.

[LillieeNBlair]

PR not number one
but sometime is important

[Clint1]

Originally Posted by kenry

page rank is a link analysis algorithm used by google search engine....it is very important.........google page rank is one of the most important algorithm ever developed by the web..

....and one of the most (if not THE most) abused, nefariously manipulated, potentially slanderous, inaccurate, business-ruining, pollution-producing evil things ever developed for the web--for it does not rely on relevance, nor quality/usefulness/helpfulness (contrary to their asinine claims), nor REASONS for the IBL's; it only relies on sheer raw numbers which is why it is so flawed. It indicates nothing but IBL's and the "power of" these IBL's.

[Tubby]

" abused, nefariously manipulated, potentially slanderous, inaccurate, business-ruining, pollution-producing evil things "

Clint1, do not be shy Mate. . feel free to speak from the heart -

love that post!

[Clint1]

Originally Posted by Tubby

".......abused, nefariously manipulated, potentially slanderous, inaccurate, business-ruining, pollution-producing evil things "

Clint1, do not be shy Mate. . feel free to speak from the heart -

love that post!

PR is always an "emotional topic" for me.

[weegillis]

If I read you correctly, Clint1, PR = Pure Rubbish. But, it does look elegant on paper and has made a few people billionaires, just not us, yet.

When a page is ranked by its content and its relevance and relations in the overall web and not by its IBLs the SEs will finally have search right. Math is pure, and can always be made to produce a desired result. Nothing natural about that.

[mjtaylor]

PageRank is important, but with no way to accurately assess PageRank I can't see how it's import is of any value.

[Clint1]

Originally Posted by weegillis

If I read you correctly, Clint1, PR = Pure Rubbish. But, it does look elegant on paper and has made a few people billionaires, just not us, yet.

When a page is ranked by its content and its relevance and relations in the overall web and not by its IBLs the SEs will finally have search right. Math is pure, and can always be made to produce a desired result. Nothing natural about that.

"When a page is ranked by its content and its relevance and relations in the overall web and not by its IBLs the SEs will finally have search right."

BEAUTIFUL!! That's so accurate, factual and truthful it warranted large fonts!


Ok....here we go. It IS pure rubbish to you and I, and any others that KNOW what it's REALLY all about and how it's BEYOND flawed.

Here's one of the problems with it, why it is flawed, and why it's slanderous, (and to the OP's original subject as to why it IS important) : Idiot oblivious ignorant microcephalic online shopper "Joe Surfer" does NOT think it's pure rubbish. That dumb ass sees no green or little green on his stupid hell-spawned G toolbar or where ever, and thinks: "Ewwwww, this site sucks. It's not important at all, it's not useful and has no quality whatsoever, because google says so, that's what they say about PR. I ain't gonna buy anything from here". He leaves. Thanks G.

Idiot oblivious ignorant microcephalic online shopper "Joe Surfer" still looks around then comes across as site and he sees "a big pretty green line" on his stupid hell-spawned G toolbar or where ever, and thinks "Oooooo, this site is awesome, it's 'important' it's 'useful', because google says so, that's what they say about PR",......just because of the freakin' PR and yet the site could SUCK like a blackhole! Joe surfer STAYS AT that website and BUYS!!

The first site has cheaper prices, and the absolute best customer service and support anyone has experienced (MY website). But I, and countless millions similar to me, lose out! Thanks G. PR is evil.

The second site has so-so prices, and, the most hideous horrendous customer support and ordering f*** ups in the history of the internet. Ratings websites also point this out. Yet, because of "all that green", THEY get the freakin' business!! Nice job G. G wants it that way because one of their goals is the destruction of small business mom & pop stores! PR proves that. PR is evil. Their SE is very seriously flawed.

So, PR is important in that regard.

Another reason: The supplemental index still exists. A rose by any other name is still a rose. One of the main reasons our toiled-over webpage creations end up punished, penalized, and sequestered into the never-seen bowels of the supp index is simply because not enough other site owners have the freakin' NEED to link to them--penalizing rarer or unusual niches/genres--which results in no or too low of PR to appease their brain-dead algos--resulting in not being in the main index that search users see! So I, and countless millions similar to me, lose out! Thanks G. PR is evil. Their SE is very seriously flawed.

So, PR is important in that regard.

The crack-smoking "living on another planet" G "search quality team" or "PR overseers" tell us totally idiotic bullschitt like "get more links". Ok "geniuses", just HTF are we supposed to get "more links" if you can't keep a %$#@!& freakin' page indexed long enough in the MAIN index for other sites owners to KNOW the SOB even exists so they CAN link to it?????????? AND, even in that case, as I have pointed out, they would also have to have the NEED to link to it!!!! It's a freakin' infinite causality-loop-of-insanity!! HTF is someone supposed to be able to link to a freakin' page, if they don't know the SOB exists????? If they don't know it exists, they can't link to it!!! Link to it and it shows up the main index for searches!! But they can't link to it because they don't it exists because it's not in the index showing for any searches!!! So the page remains and stays, DAMNED!! (It's as though they've somehow answered the age-old chicken or the egg question!!)

So, PR is important in that regard.

What has PR done "for" us?? Other than what I mentioned above, let's see.....hmmm......internet pollution. Internet pollution in the form of: Endless useless bandwidth-hogging server-bogging; link exchange pages, useless directories, useless link farms, useless "yellow pages", etc., etc., etc., ad nauseam. Forms of cyber-terrorism: Link scams, unending unrelenting SPAM, cyber-crime therein, etc., etc. And we have them to "thank" for it. PR is evil. Their SE is very seriously flawed.

Oh yeah, it has gotten people rich. And, the type of people who don't deserve to get rich! So, PR is important in that regard....to THEM.

Until the moronic surfers out there with the collective IQ of my shoe size get their heads out of their a$$es REALIZE how f***ed up not only PR is, but GOOGLE is, we're doomed and will experience continued damnation. And until G gets THEIR heads out of their a$$es and realizes this and their other evil activities, we're doomed and will experience continued damnation.

I TOLD them years ago when PR had its first press release, that ALL of these things would transpire. I said it would be abused and nefariously manipulated. I said it would cause internet pollution and scams. I said all of that above. But of course, being a nobody and not rich, I and many others were ignored, swept under the literal rug and labeled as crazy.

PR is evil, google is evil. Their SE is very seriously flawed. And, we're not even yet talking about their flawed algo's and the damages they have done to legit white-hat site owners!

So, is PR important? Unfortunately, for the reasons I covered above, yes. Is it evil? Yes. Is it rubbish? Yes. Should it die? YES.

And before some google-adorational brown-nosing sycophant comes out with the typical "why are they so popular" or "well, everyone uses them" comments, and "they don't owe you anything" or "ask for a refund", etc., allow me to head that off. No truer words have been spoken than "it's all in a name" and "word of mouth" is a most powerful tool. Years ago when G first came on the SE scene, it was GREAT!! They were great. They lived up to their creed of "do no evil". I LOVED THEM, as did everyone else. They would index all pages, and, let the user decide on what THEY would click and visit. A nice clean blazing fast interface with the best advanced search ever seen. All was good. We were happy; both site owners and SE users. We spread the word about that great, catchy, and easy to remember name and their service. We spread the word all the way to Wolf 359. A short time later they became a household name. It was justified. Therefore, due to our collective adoration, they not only thrived but of course "made more money than God", all THANKS TO US. Us site owners MADE THEM what they are today.

There was no escaping their popularity and JUSTIFIED #1 spot. Eventually they even became a VERB, and in the dictionary.

Then around 2003 ("Bourbon update"), they had one of their first collective massive brain aneurysm when they deciding they would totally f*** up their once great and well-deserved name by jacking around with algo's. Obviously the term "if it ain't broke don't fix" is a totally alien concept to them. They were not only NOT broken, but working just perfectly. But their first big algo f*** up was born. It ruined and destroyed MILLIONS, where it continues to this day with even more algo nightmares that throw the baby out with the bathwater, with which they accept more than 50% "collateral damage" as "acceptable losses".

Then, it was PR that came out. More evilality.

To this day, more and more of the same algo F-ups, more of the same "PR tweaking" where they try and FIX the schitt they started and try and close up that Pandora's Box of BS, which results in most sites having a LOWER PR (and again, we all know from above what that means). From "do no evil", to, "do evil as often as possible. It's ok, no one can touch us."

Alas, also to this day, even much more so, they are even more of a household name. You cannot escape them. They are everywhere like a freakin' out of control cancer. You cannot watch a newscast without hearing "google" and seeing "google" on some part of a map or satellite image. You cannot even escape their name in TV shows; talk shows, dramas, comedies, documentaries, it's everywhere. And we have ourselves to blame for it. And they have US to THANK for it, making them who they are today and making them richer than anything else. Making them far beyond just "powerful", making them dangerously untouchable in every regard. And, they stabbed us in the back. They attack and harm those that made them what they are as per the things I mentioned above, (and MORE).

They abuse their power. With great power comes great responsibility, and G has proven they are not only THE most irresponsible company in the history of the internet, but one of the worst to ever exist. They are the very personification of irresponsibility. Do they owe me anything, do they owe us anything? Yes, at the very least they OWE those that made them who they are today, FAIRNESS, and responsible behavior!!!

(Cont'd below)

[Clint1]

(Continuation)
Many here already knew I hated G and WHY. Now, others also know why I feel this way. And, I am not alone. As I said earlier it's an emotional topic for me. I've been subscribed to this thread since it started, but for these reasons why I was reluctant to reply because I knew if I did I'd blow a gasket again. I was NOT trying to be rude to anyone (except to G since they deserve it), I am simply just describing why I feel the way I do about them, and of course why PR is important.

[deepsand]

Originally Posted by kenry

page rank is a link analysis algorithm used by google search engine.

This we all know; the issue at hand is its importance, i.e. what weight it is given in the SERP algorithm.

Originally Posted by kenry

it is very important.

Can you prove this?

Originally Posted by kenry

........google page rank is one of the most important algorithm ever developed by the web..

Are you aware that Google's PR algorithm is not the only one extant? That it is used by Google alone?

What makes it, in particular, of such great import compared to all other web related algorithms?

[weegillis]

Originally Posted by mjtaylor

PageRank is important, but with no way to accurately assess PageRank I can't see how it's import is of any value.

And yet because of a patented method that has produced billions in revenue its value, or rather, 'value' is difficult to ignore, and the money is kinda hard to give up, too.

Until some other ranking system AND search traffic knock the almighty from their perch, I wouldn't hold out long for them to determine if their algo is good for us.

[nikonjems]

Yes page rank is most important thing in SEO World. When any person visit any site he not only read there performance also see what page rank he has. So don't avoid them.

[deepsand]

Originally Posted by nikonjems

Yes page rank is most important thing in SEO World.

Can you prove that?

Originally Posted by nikonjems

When any person visit any site he not only read there performance ...

Read what performance? And, how?

Originally Posted by nikonjems

... also see what page rank he has.

Again, how?

Before answering, consider that ToolBar PR 1) is a snapshot taken at some time in the past; and, 2) it's value of 0 to 10 does not necessarily linearly transform to the Actual PR value of 0 to 1.

Originally Posted by nikonjems

So don't avoid them.

Don't avoid what ?

[crankydave]

I think what folks seem to miss or not take into consideration is that since PR is a function of links, is any 'ranking value' a function of PR or the links and anchors? I suggest the latter.

My own opinion is that PR is (has become) primarily an indexing function and not one of relevance ergo...ranking.

Dave

[Doc]

Originally Posted by crankydave

My own opinion is that PR is (has become) primarily an indexing function and not one of relevance ergo...ranking.

Dave

I would agree that it's also become an indexing function, but it would seem that it's still relevance driven. It certainly is still one of the many factors that plays into SERPs placement.

[weegillis]

A link is a link, as Dave points out. It is the only data type in the PR function, if I understand correctly. PR is essentially a sophisticated vote counting machine.

It follows, then, that text nodes in the anchor element are indexing parameters, and have no relation (mathematically) to data type LINK. Keyword pigeon holing will naturally tend to position large amounts of similar data in the same place in the index. From here selected data is funneled into the SERPs.

It would appear there are two functions at work, not just one. in the ranking algo:

1) number of votes for a page; and,
2) volume of data as a percentage of the kerword heap.

The value of the data in the heap may be increased by PR. High PR with low KW density may still beat out low PR with high KW density (within the heap). Of course, if two competitors both have high PR it becomes a battle for who should get the highest density. At this stage, the SE needs another function to devalue KW excess, making it now, three.

Like always, these are the ramblings of a prairie schooner.

[kgun]

Originally Posted by weegillis

A link is a link, as Dave points out. It is the only data type in the PR function, if I understand correctly. PR is essentially a sophisticated vote counting machine.

I thought the same until I read Matt Cutts article that made me start this

Matt Cutts June 15, 2009 about PageRank sculpting

thread.

[Web Templates]

It is far more important to rank well for important keywords/phrases than to have a high PR.

[marlonpowell]

It's more important to get back links from relevant good quality sites. PR will follow automatically.