Overture (Yahoo) Versus Google - Opinions Sought

[spidermonkey]

I have always maintained that however good your free listings with Google are it is vital to maximise your exposure with other major search engines as a sudden drop in ranking with Google (they keep finding new ways to make that happen) could cause a major problem. This means a certain amount of involvement with the paid inclusion model is inevitable.

Three of the most important engines for me have been Altavista, Inktomi and Alltheweb. Now with "Overture Site Match" being the only way to approach getting indexed, certainly at Altavista and Inktomi, we are looking at a very different model where you are looking not only at a fee for having your site regularly re-spidered, but effictively forced pay per click as well.

I have had to withdraw certain services I once offered on a pay per enquiry basis until I can get more information on the cost implications or alternatives. I reckon that will be at least six months, when existing commitments via the original pricing plans for these engines expire.

I can see there is going to be a titanic clash between the king of pay per click and the king of free inclusion with every SEM in the world caught in the middle. Any educated opinions (guesses) as to how this will pan-out and alternative strategies for the interim period would be appreciated as frankly I am a bit worried.

I believe the writing is on the wall and the structure of the internet will be permanently changed by all this.

[ReviewGolf.com]

If you can afford, pay both. In order for it to work you have to play with different settings in you campaign to optimize your ROI. Word of advise, DO NOT leave your program on auto-pilot. That will result in loosing your positions and wasting a lot of cash. Personally when I set my new campaign I have to keep an eye on it for at least a week or two, checking it a few times a day, until everything settles and I establish my comfort zone.

[rawdist]

I often wish that Overture was more like Adwords so that I could increase my paid exposure. I find the down sides of Overture are the lack of imediacy. You have to comitt to a certain spend and wait days for keywords to be approved, so the sort of experimentation that is possible with Adwords is out of the question.

Strangely enough though, Overture improves my Google ranking. I have bid on several keywords for my Book Review Site. Theses are returned as sponsored results in search feeds that other people use to pad out various pages. The end result is lot of links to my site at Google from various directory type pages.

[rer3]

Originally Posted by spidermonkey

I believe the writing is on the wall and the structure of the internet will be permanently changed by all this.

I hate it, I hate it, I hate it. What ever happened to the free exchange of information. I really loved my Netzero dialup.

That was my venting, thanks.

Deeper focus on ROI. Keywords that generate sales not just clicks. I looks like 2004 will be a "play it by ear" type of year. Hopefully by 2005 the Yahoo and Microsoft technologies will be in full swing and we will have a better picture of the whole SEO scene.

[richmar]

I like seeing today's stats on Google Adwords, but find I get a better click thru rate with the Overture/Yahoo network. I also wish Google offered keyword research like the Overture Inventory. Their predictive tool does not tell you how many times a term or phrase has been searched on.

We still show up well in Google free search, but only time will tell if that service will remain free.

I am a proponent of using both networks because where Google gives access to AOL users, overture gives access to Yahoo users.

[xmx]

As Marysz I also prefer the tools offered by overture, they give you more data about the number of searches for keywords and the exact costs for each ranking position for that keyword.

It also help you finding the combinations of more words relevant for your keywords that the searchers use.

Some top positions that place your sponsor link in the whole network will be very expensive but some times bidding high for the combinations of more words will bring more interested prospects (in fact they refine their search).

I hope these advices will be helpful.

xmx

[sovidiu]

I personally think that no matter the strategies large colossus such as Google, Overture or MSN use or will ever use, a clever linguistic content will always get you big rankings. Afterall, data mining relies on textual content. Robots can not read images. They read text. So why pay Overture the money, when you can easily use the free-for-all GoOgle?

[webiff]

Well I must say that Overture is little bit less searchs websites rather than Google. Google do work for its Search appliances day by day... and you can see now it is searching around half of total websites in the world.

visit http://www.ApnaHyderabad.com/forums/ and discuss it more.

Regards
ApnaHyderabad.com Team

[Dave Hawley]

For me it's AdWords by a loooonnngggg shot over Overture. With AdWords I can bring in over 500 highly targeted searchers per day for just over $50.00. Adwords has so many neat features that makes this posssible. To do the same on Overture would cost me much more due to it's MUCH lower traffic! For the $50.00 spent on AdWords my return is about $100.00, i.e $50.00 profit.

[webnewton]

No to second thoughts about it. Overture is better.
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[meandrew]

This is all very interesting and all makes sense, howevr I have a concern that google drops a site when an adword campaign begins, anyone have views on this?

Andrew

[Dave Hawley]

howevr I have a concern that google drops a site when an adword campaign begins, anyone have views on this?

Not true. It's just one (of many) unproven conspiracy theories.

[spidermonkey]

Many thanks to all who took the time to respond to the topic so far. It was nice to get top slot with my first posting and I liked the picture.

As I started this discussion I thought it fair to let you all know if it helped.

The main conclusion I have come to is that, in what is likely to be a bumpy year I need to re-examine my attitudes toward CPC. I don't think I am the only one who will be increasing CPC activity in an attempt to underpin possibly fluctuating/declining organic listings. Will all that extra CPC activity go to Overture - I doubt it.

One word on CPC. The great many of the reported problems stated elsewhere in these forums could be related to copyriting standard. It is a waste of time and money researching great keywords and phrases and putting them into badly written copy.

In my opinion the importance of copywriting is not discussed enough - but that is for a future posting topic.

Kind regards

spidermonkey

[airguy]

With the declining sales and increase in operating costs on then net, having to pay per click and pay to get listed in search engines, checking all the time to see how we are pulling up on all the different services. Building different sites and pages that are tailored to pull in results from this or that search engine, it's becoming a bit overwhelming.

I really think that the net is starting to push us toward a brick and mortar business, still maintain a presence on the net but not relying on it for any source of income as we once did.

[minmini]

Originally Posted by sovidiu

Robots can not read images. They read text. So why pay Overture the money, when you can easily use the free-for-all GoOgle?

That's is a ridiculous concept. How do you propose I get a top 3 or 4 listing on Yahoo or MSN?

[spidermonkey]

I am not planning on rolling-over just because things are getting harder. Promoting via the Internet is like walking on shifting sand. It is in a constant state of flux and will still be like that in 5 years time. The best thing you can do is join a forum like this and ask plenty of questions. You have to allow a good chunk of your time for research.

When making the point about written content souidiu was correct. I have held top listings for one of my clients on Yahoo and MSN since 1988 - despite several re-writes - each building on the last and preserving site structure (you would be surprised how resiliant an established page can be). I realise Yahoo technology is changing so we need to test it. I discovered on another forum that they are accepting free submissions again by the way.

Regards

spidermonkey

[chelle60]

Originally Posted by minmini

That's is a ridiculous concept. How do you propose I get a top 3 or 4 listing on Yahoo or MSN?

this sounds a little trite, but what's wrong with the old-fashioned way? look up "ralph lauren paint" in google and yahoo - my site will be in the top five in both places and i've never paid for an ad (or adword) in my life. in fact we have been the TOP site on all the major search tools for the last three years until about a month ago when the folks who actually make the paint wised up and started putting some text on their site. it used to be almost all photos and Flash.

we simply have lots of TEXT that's relevant to that term, which makes most search tools happy.

.\\
http://www.thefixchicks.com

[spidermonkey]

It appears you and souidiu were making the same point, but in different ways.

I took a look at your site and can now see where you are coming from. Without the link to the manufacturers site (and you would be nuts to put it on your site) I can't comment on what happened with their recent success at your expense. In any event you would best be advised by a moderator, I think, if nothing glaringly obvious was apparent.

On a design note:

What's going-on in the top left corner of your pages. There is a small box. To regular surfers boxes mean content - but it is just sort of...there?

Having read your pages I realise your content is going to change, but you need to make sure that box goes away when you do.

Kind regards

spidermonkey

[sovidiu]

Text still represents 70% of a web page. For instance, how come Google or any other search engine offers "text-integrated" CPC solutions and asks you to suggest a few words (and not images) about your site? Because images are the aspect, while the text is the substance. It's not "ridiculous" to have a personal web page (such as robotstxt.org) placed as #1 web resource for a specific domain, rather than google's robot or any other robot's web page. And even though you pay to get your site listed as "sponsored result", the user will still evaluate it and the other sites in a SERP and decide which one is better. I still consider that proper textual content can promote your web page way better than an AdWords/Overture session.

[spidermonkey]

You are preaching to the converted when it comes to the value of your page text. We all know that search engine spiders will look at text and not images, animations or any other "cool stuff" when evaluating a page. The quality of what you wrote is still an issue with CPC as a badly written listing will cost you ROI.




Newbie Tip:

When analysing a page, click "select all" then click "copy" - open an empty Notepad page and click "paste" - you will now be seeing a crude equivalent of what the spider sees when it visits. If there is nothing there (and there certainly won't be images) there is nothing there - certainly from the spiders point of view.