2 Different Domains but Same Content. Whats yr Take?

[sofomor]

Hello,

I have been discussing this on other forums as well. What to know your views.

My client has bought two different domains example, abc.com and abc.co.uk but having the same design, marketing message and content in them. Please elaborate what are the SEO stakes, do's and don'ts ! urgent pls.

If the content is same i would be making a single SEO strategy but the client wants both domains ranking top. What should my intelligent, responsible and honest response.



Thank you

[Webnauts]

Originally Posted by sofomor

Hello,

I have been discussing this on other forums as well. What to know your views.

My client has bought two different domains example, abc.com and abc.co.uk but having the same design, marketing message and content in them. Please elaborate what are the SEO stakes, do's and don'ts ! urgent pls.

If the content is same i would be making a single SEO strategy but the client wants both domains ranking top. What should my intelligent, responsible and honest response.



Thank you

That is obviously duplicated content. So one of both will be ignored in Googles index when they pick that up. That is not the legitimate geo targeting practice.

There are workarounds for such stuff.

[sofomor]

Thank you webnauts

But what explanation should i be providing to the client if he/she is adamant on working on both the things and obviously a layman regarding SEO. Its me who is providing the consultancy... How to convince he/she that this could not be done and is not a good practice (eventually harming our SEO goals)

Need more thoughts pls!

[Webnauts]

Originally Posted by sofomor

Thank you webnauts

But what explanation should i be providing to the client if he/she is adamant on working on both the things and obviously a layman regarding SEO. Its me who is providing the consultancy... How to convince he/she that this could not be done and is not a good practice (eventually harming our SEO goals)

Need more thoughts pls!

If you are consulting SEO, you should be able to deal with such a minor issue. If you are not an SEO, you just harm us real SEO professionals, and I do not think it is not fair what you are doing to us and your customer. Sorry, but I had to tell that.

[sofomor]

If you are consulting SEO, you should be able to deal with such a minor issue. If you are not an SEO, you just harm us real SEO professionals, and I do not think it is not fair what you are doing to us and your customer. Sorry, but I had to tell that.

I just asked a simple question, ok lets put it this way. "how to do you guys tackle clients who are adamant on certain ill practices". I mentioned that my strategy would be one but how can I give a responsible answer to this client so that he understands it. Certainly there are times where u may face some difficulties but you cannot doubt somebody's services and start making judgments without knowledge

Thank you

[Dubbya]

the client wants both domains ranking top

sofomor,

With duplicate content? If you can pull this off, you'll be worthy of induction into the SEO hall of fame!

Duplicate content is a mistake regardless of the reasoning behind it. To put it simply, there are no "work-arounds" that will allow both sites to display the same content under different URL's without one or both sites suffering penalties. As an SEO consultant, you should know this.

What should my intelligent, responsible and honest response.

If you are unable to persuade the client that one or both sites will end up penalized in terms of where they place in the SERPs, then perhaps slapping your client in the back of the head might be an appropriate, intelligent, responsible and honest course of action. It may not be helpful in relation to your SEO efforts, however it would quite likely prove to be somewhat therapeutic in addressing your frustration and would definitely prevent you from wasting any more of your time.

Google Webmaster Guidelines - Duplicate content

In the rare cases in which Google perceives that duplicate content may be shown with intent to manipulate our rankings and deceive our users, we'll also make appropriate adjustments in the indexing and ranking of the sites involved. As a result, the ranking of the site may suffer, or the site might be removed entirely from the Google index, in which case it will no longer appear in search results

As a solution, I'd recommend that you host the content on the domain that'll generate the most traffic (.com?) and set up a 301 redirect on the other domain. This way, it won't matter which URL the client types in or links to, they'll both resolve to the .com site. Your client's server Administrator should be able to provide some assistance in setting this up.

For more assistance, search this forum for threads related to "301 redirect" and "canonicalization prevention".

.02

[sofomor]

Good thanks dubya

[Webnauts]

Originally Posted by sofomor

Certainly there are times where u may face some difficulties but you cannot doubt somebody's services and start making judgments without knowledge

Without knowledge?

You asked an SEO beginner or scammer question. What else do I need to know?

Anyway, Dubbya answered your question.

Good luck.

[janeth]

Originally Posted by sofomor

Hello,

I have been discussing this on other forums as well. What to know your views.

My client has bought two different domains example, abc.com and abc.co.uk but having the same design, marketing message and content in them. Please elaborate what are the SEO stakes, do's and don'ts ! urgent pls.

If the content is same i would be making a single SEO strategy but the client wants both domains ranking top. What should my intelligent, responsible and honest response.

Thank you

One site will be dropped from the search engines.

We were working with one site and it was being duplicated under another domain name.

Site A started ranking really well when all of a sudden it appeared to be banned and site B slowly started showing up in the place of site A.

If you want to pick the site that ranks do not duplicate them or Google will pick the site for you.

[janeth]

Originally Posted by Dubbya

sofomor,

With duplicate content? If you can pull this off, you'll be worthy of induction into the SEO hall of fame!

Duplicate content is a mistake regardless of the reasoning behind it. To put it simply, there are no "work-arounds" that will allow both sites to display the same content under different URL's without one or both sites suffering penalties. As an SEO consultant, you should know this.

That is 100% incorrect. Duplicate sites will cause one to get banned, duplicate content will allow one to rank and the others not to.

But neither will harm both sites.

[advancedmerchant]

Originally Posted by sofomor

Thank you webnauts

But what explanation should i be providing to the client if he/she is adamant on working on both the things and obviously a layman regarding SEO. Its me who is providing the consultancy... How to convince he/she that this could not be done and is not a good practice (eventually harming our SEO goals)

Need more thoughts pls!

I face this often, in trying to explain some of the more draconian rules of the Visa/Mastercard Operating Regulations to my customers... When they get adamant about having duplicate content on both, simply tell them that Google WILL penalize them, dropping both, possibly both sites from their listings. Compliance is not OPTIONAL it is MANDITORY. Tell them that one of the things they are paying you for is to ensure that they are following the rules and guidelines of the search engines and directories, and only through compliance are they going to acheive their goals.

Customers often get adamant, having their own logic in "knowing" what is "right or reasonable". Unfortunately, SEO - like the banking industry - has been hit by every scammer and "black hat" on the planet, so these industries have had to institute procedures that to the layman may seem counter-intuitive, even counter-productive, but are necessary to their continued operations.

Conversely, you could offer to place them in contact with a stock broker so they can purchase controlling interest in Google. Then they can do whatever they want.

[Webnauts]

Originally Posted by janeth

One site will be dropped from the search engines.

We were working with one site and it was being duplicated under another domain name.

Site A started ranking really well when all of a sudden it appeared to be banned and site B slowly started showing up in the place of site A.

If you want to pick the site that ranks do not duplicate them or Google will pick the site for you.

You got a positive RepPoint from me for this post.

Thanks for sharing.

[Webnauts]

Originally Posted by advancedmerchant

I face this often, in trying to explain some of the more draconian rules of the Visa/Mastercard Operating Regulations to my customers... When they get adamant about having duplicate content on both, simply tell them that Google WILL penalize them, dropping both, possibly both sites from their listings. Compliance is not OPTIONAL it is MANDITORY. Tell them that one of the things they are paying you for is to ensure that they are following the rules and guidelines of the search engines and directories, and only through compliance are they going to acheive their goals.

Customers often get adamant, having their own logic in "knowing" what is "right or reasonable". Unfortunately, SEO - like the banking industry - has been hit by every scammer and "black hat" on the planet, so these industries have had to institute procedures that to the layman may seem counter-intuitive, even counter-productive, but are necessary to their continued operations.

Conversely, you could offer to place them in contact with a stock broker so they can purchase controlling interest in Google. Then they can do whatever they want.

Great post! One of the best I can tell, since I am involved in the SEO business. I gave you a +Rep.

[janeth]

Originally Posted by Webnauts

You got a positive RepPoint from me for this post.

Thanks for sharing.

Thanks and if you really want to see something, the last time I checked it looked like Google was giving credit for the links that site A had to site B.

Site A is Silicone Wristbands Custom Silicone Bracelets and Rubber Bracelets and site B is Silicone Wristbands Custom Silicone Bracelets and Rubber Bracelets I've not looked at it this week so it might have changed.

[Old Welsh Guy]

If I can throw in some of my experience here. So far you are talking about sites, but Google can do a LOT more harm than just sites. If both sites have duplicate content, and both sites have deep links to different pages, i have seen on numerous occasions half of the pages from BOTH sites dropped (so that if you put both sites pages together you get one site (if you see what i mean).

The result of this is the the whole flow of link juice between BOTH sites internal linking is slaughtered and they drop out. Not because of a penalty as such, but because pages were removed and Google left in the pages that it considered the most relevant (killing the structural flow of both sites along the way.

Who said SEO is simple LOL

Oh & I have to agree with Webnauts, if this is your level of understanding of SEo you shouldn't be charging for it. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing (as they say).

Once you know SEO/Internet marketing, you will take ABSOLUTELY no crap from your clients. They are PAYING YOU to do what is best for them, so stand up to them and tell them they are damaging their business.

If they can't understand what you are saying or refuse to accept it, then walk away from them and inform them that you are not prepared to ruin your own good name in allowing a client site to get banned.

[Big Juice]

Back in the day, and I do not mean all that long ago, I used to plaster duplicate content across several domains and I took over at least 60% of page one in all of the major search engines. This went on for about 1 year before they pulled 5 of the 6 sites down for that content. Don't get me wrong, they didn't de-list the sites as the sites themselves still ranked for their main keywords. Rather they started ranking only one site for all of that duplicate content.

While it is harder these days to pull these types of stunts off I am here to tell you that it can still be done. Hell all you really have to look at are organizations that offer white label products to see this sort of thing still happening. Personally I do not use any cloaking tricks or any of that other stuff but I would imagine that if one were to use them one would have even more luck.

Regarding ethics... only you can decide if your tactics are ethical - just don't try to force your ethics on me while making your choices.

[janeth]

Originally Posted by Old Welsh Guy

If I can throw in some of my experience here. So far you are talking about sites, but Google can do a LOT more harm than just sites.

Not sure how, once the site is gone, it is gone

Originally Posted by Old Welsh Guy

If both sites have duplicate content, and both sites have deep links to different pages, i have seen on numerous occasions half of the pages from BOTH sites dropped (so that if you put both sites pages together you get one site (if you see what i mean).

I've never seen that happen before. But even if it did you would have what would be equal to one site.

Originally Posted by Old Welsh Guy

The result of this is the the whole flow of link juice between BOTH sites internal linking is slaughtered and they drop out. Not because of a penalty as such, but because pages were removed and Google left in the pages that it considered the most relevant (killing the structural flow of both sites along the way.

It would be very, very unlikely that something like that would happen. It would require that someone had spent an equal amount of time marketing both domain names.

[janeth]

Originally Posted by Big Juice

Regarding ethics... only you can decide if your tactics are ethical - just don't try to force your ethics on me while making your choices.

I love it. (:

[spiderbait]

I would simply tell the client that assisted-suicide is not yet legal in your jurisdiction, so you have to respectfully decline from helping them to creating duplicate content.

Importantly, you might spend some time exploring the client's rationale rather than simply trying to dissuade.

I often find that clients want to achieve a particular goal or particular effect with the site and have latched onto the first solution that occurred to them (in this case duplicate sites). If you truly understand what your client wants to achieve, then you'll be much better prepared to show him/her how to achieve it without shooting themselves in the foot.

For instance, maybe you client is really only concerned with the display URL in the address bar so that UK visitors will perceive that they are on a UK site and similarly, non-UK visitors will see the .com address. If that were the problem, it could be easily solved through a bit of creative coding and .htaccess without any negative search engine effect.

Usually the best way to help a client is to really listen to them.

[janeth]

Originally Posted by Big Juice

I used to plaster duplicate content across several domains and I took over at least 60% of page one in all of the major search engines.

You also have to understand where the duplicate content begins.

1. If the site title's are the same is it duplicate content?

2. If you quote a paragraph is it duplicate content?

3. If you copy all the text but the navigation and site set up is totally different is it duplicate content?

[Palindrome]

If you can't handle the situation verbally, ask your client to put in writing what he feels he is paying you for. You can virtually guarantee he will hang himself and end the argument. You should reply in writing, highlighting relevant points from his own statement and adding accurate back up from search engine guidelines etc.

Beyond that I also wonder if the best answer would be to find him someone who can handle the confrontation and knows the answers to his questions. If you are his web designer and are now trying to play both fields without the right knowledge, tell him so, he might respect you for that.

On the general subject of duplicate content, it is amazing what can happen with search engine indexes. I just spent a while sorting out a small site, only 14 pages, yet Google had 79 URLs indexed for various versions, with essentially the same content. Their brilliant web designer, apart from producing the site in unadulterated Joomla garbage, had put up an identical site under another domain, then moved both to different sub folders because of server problems. Added to this, he tried various URL experiments, with the same content again. I won't go on, you'll get the picture.

In essence, there were five different versions of the same site, plus a few wildcards. The search engines had indexed bits and pieces from all of them. This might have resolved to one site eventually but many of the URLs had been in the index a long time, so I'm not entirely convinced.
The effect of this was death for the main domain and not much better for the other. The owner's run a chateau rental business and their latest designer managed to turn about 40 bookings a year into nothing for months, with bankruptcy close by.

That's why I say to you be honest with your client and with yourself.

[ron angel]

Originally Posted by Dubbya

sofomor,

As a solution, I'd recommend that you host the content on the domain that'll generate the most traffic (.com?) and set up a 301 redirect on the other domain. This way, it won't matter which URL the client types in or links to, they'll both resolve to the .com site. Your client's server Administrator should be able to provide some assistance in setting this up.

For more assistance, search this forum for threads related to "301 redirect" and "canonicalization prevention".

.02

choose a site then 301 to it from all the other sites that's what I do,
it works. any other way you get penalised as others have stated. I suggest you 301 to the site with best rating.

[saikatblogger]

Please take a look at this Google Groups discussion, read the 5th post by Chris Gunn:
duplicate content issue/different tld's - Crawling, indexing, and ranking | Google Groups

[dburdon]

Sofomor,

I have this discussion with clients all the time.

For me the answer is simple. If you own the .co.uk domain target that by definition to the UK.

If you own the .com extension of the same domain target that to your biggest non-uk market.

Host it there. If not, prioritise as the main market in Google webmaster tools.

Then make sure the tags and content are subtly different.

[seopo]

Your job is to be a consultant and advise the client... He won't like to be made to feel stupid and it's ultimately it's his decision.

That being said you can help him from himself.... figure out which domain is more appropriate, will his business be predominantly in the UK or international? Choose your domain and optimise that one more, maybe even initially have a 301 redirect for the .com to the .co.uk (or visa versa). Once your satisfied let Google start to index the other one. Watch your analytics and show him the results he's geting. If at the end of the day you can't get the .com listed that's just the way it is and then do a 301 and get any links benefits you've built up for that domain. You'll get a nice little boost in presence and come out smelling of roses.

[tbond]

I think all the point-by-point analysis of the idiocy behind investing time in the creation of duplicated sites may be wasted on anyone who refuses to see the point.

We cannot fill the Internet with dozens, hundreds, thousands, millions or billions of the SAME page. Creating an instant copy or thousands of them is easy these days with cheap automatic CMS site creation software.

This kind of thing is insane! If your client insists on you building duplicated sites, even if it is only one of them there is only one logical course of action --

FIRE THE CLIENT!

You don't have to work for people who are bent on killing the 'net!

This kind of lesson about being able to "just say no" to any client is at the root of being a true
consultant -- whether you're a financial consultant, advertising consultant, web design consultant, or diet consultant.

Do you know what makes someone a "consultant" instead of a typist?

The ability to tell the client "no."

[Dubbya]

Originally Posted by tbond

Do you know what makes someone a "consultant" instead of a typist?

The ability to tell the client "no."

LOL.. well said.

[Peter (IMC)]

Originally Posted by Webnauts

If you are consulting SEO, you should be able to deal with such a minor issue. If you are not an SEO, you just harm us real SEO professionals, and I do not think it is not fair what you are doing to us and your customer. Sorry, but I had to tell that.

And you shouldn't tell that because there is no reason for it. This guy is simply asking a question and not everybody can be as great as you. If you don't want to help, then just don't reply.

[tbond]

Peter, I think that actually, the best philosophy is somewhere between Webnauts and my advice about "firing the client".

Every young consultant has to learn how to deal with problematic clients. I've been an independent advertising consultant since 1984, since I cleaned out my desk at a radio station and "hit the street" -- taking most of my radio clients with me.

It was a hard lesson to learn -- that bad clients can not only ruin your day, they can ruin your business and possibly even end your career! In order to survive and prosper, every new consultant has to learn which clients to "hire" and which to "fire".

If you have a client and his consultant alone in a room, ONE of them is the boss.

It's not the client.

Being an employee is not what we're about, right?

Any client who want to always "be the boss" clearly doesn't want a consultant... he wants an employee. Without paying benefits. So, tell 'em "no way José"! If you want ME to take your orders, pay me health insurance, give me paid vacations, a water cooler and a key to the employee lounge... otherwise, it's YOU who takes my advice. Or not. You pay me for advice, not for typing.

(Of course, I don't want their health insurance, their vacations, nor a key to anything.)

There is a give-and-take between client and consultant, where the client learns to accept the advice he's getting. Or not.

But, at some point, the self-destructive client must hear the famous words -- as Donald Trump said it so well... "You're Fired!"

Once the consultant has that bad client out of his life, he can go on to building successful projects for more willing clients. His and his other clients' success will grow faster, without that other guy dragging his heels and "gumming-up the works" for everybody.

And, on the web, that means a better world for all the rest of us!

[janeth]

Originally Posted by Peter (IMC)

And you shouldn't tell that because there is no reason for it. This guy is simply asking a question and not everybody can be as great as you. If you don't want to help, then just don't reply.

I agree.

[janeth]

Originally Posted by tbond

Peter, I think that actually, the best philosophy is somewhere between Webnauts and my advice about "firing the client".

Telling someone or trying to make someone feel stupid for asking a question is wrong.

[janeth]

Originally Posted by saikatblogger

Please take a look at this Google Groups discussion, read the 5th post by Chris Gunn:
duplicate content issue/different tld's - Crawling, indexing, and ranking | Google Groups

and the post

Howdy,

Contrary to common beliefs, Google does not "penalize" duplicate
content. They group it together and display the most popular web page
(the one with the most links) in the search results. However, that
can look like a penalty to less popular sites.

You may not have any problems with duplicated web pages since the one
that is the most popular is the one you want showing anyway. The two
sites can be virtually identical and you'll still be able to do better
in their geographical areas.

Chris

[ron angel]

Originally Posted by tbond

Peter, I think that actually, the best philosophy is somewhere between Webnauts and my advice about "firing the client".

Every young consultant has to learn how to deal with problematic clients. I've been an independent advertising consultant since 1984, since I cleaned out my desk at a radio station and "hit the street" -- taking most of my radio clients with me.

It was a hard lesson to learn -- that bad clients can not only ruin your day, they can ruin your business and possibly even end your career! In order to survive and prosper, a new consult has to learn which clients to "hire" and which to "fire".

Any client who want to always "be the boss" clearly doesn't want a consultant... he wants an employee.

And, being an employee is not what we're about, right?

There is a give-and-take between client and consultant, where the client learns to accept the advice he's getting. Or not.

But, at some point, the self-destructive client must hear the famous words -- as Donald Trump said it so well... "You're Fired!"

Once the consultant has that bad client out of his life, he can go on to building successful projects for more willing clients. His and his other clients' success will grow faster, without that other guy dragging his heels and "gumming-up the works" for everybody.

And, on the web, that means a better world for all the rest of us!

Clients may be idiots but when it comes to money as my late father said "the mans a fool idiot ect" but I wish I had his money!
Remember He who has the gold rules right or wrong if you want the gold do what he says (warn him but do what he says) I have a friend who is a journalist that has met bill gates many times
he told me the golden rule when dealing with him NEVER argue
do what he says without question, he is always right if you disagree he will find somebody else to give the money to.right or wrong that is how it is.
There are ladies in another trade no way connected who work on the same principle keep saying yes to the client untill the money runs out or the client will go elsewhere.
It all depends on if you need the money to pay the mortgage payments on your car or feed the family or can afford to have high academic principals right or not. ( if you need any more "yes" men mr gates please contact me ( we have met many years ago before you were famous I would be glad to meet again)

[Dubbya]

Originally Posted by janeth

That is 100% incorrect. Duplicate sites will cause one to get banned, duplicate content will allow one to rank and the others not to.

But neither will harm both sites.

Really!

What sofomor describes is much different than a few duplicate articles or a couple of pages of copied content. What he/she describes is a mirrored site that's an exact copy hosted under a different domain name.

I think Jill Whalen says it best in an article at SearchEngineLand:

Search engine penalties are reserved for pages and sites that are purposely attempting to trick the search engines in one form or another. Penalties can be meted out algorithmically when obvious deceptions exist on a page, or they can be personally handed out by a search engineer who discovers an infraction through spam reports and other means. To many people's surprise, penalties rarely happen to the average website. Most that receive a penalty know exactly what they did to deserve it.

Source: The Duplicate Content Penalty Myth

When the Googlebot spider flags sites with excessive amounts of duplicate content or a spam report is sent in by a registered user, Google staffers can and do investigate. If they determine that the duplicate content is intentional, as it would be on mirror sites, they'll apply algorithmic filters and/or remove the offending sites from their index entirely.

I'm pretty sure that getting removed from the index would negatively affect both sites.

[janeth]

Originally Posted by Dubbya

sofomor,

With duplicate content? If you can pull this off, you'll be worthy of induction into the SEO hall of fame!

Duplicate content is a mistake regardless of the reasoning behind it. To put it simply, there are no "work-arounds" that will allow both sites to display the same content under different URL's without one or both sites suffering penalties. As an SEO consultant, you should know this.

We would need to read your post to understand the reason for mine.

[tbond]

Ron Angel, if you want to be an employee, all that stuff about doing what your "boss" says is fine. The world needs lots of good employees.

However, when the "boss" him or herself needs advice to save the business or make it grow, they may turn to someone who can say "no" to them. Taking advice from yes-men is often what got them into trouble. That's why they're calling on you.

Or it may have been me, of course. And they would pay a lot for my advice. My marketing consultation fees run into the thousands for an afternoon session. And I stay busy, whenever I want to. My campaigns have produced billions in new sales, growing dozens of client-owned companies from little mom-and-pops into multi-million dollar profits -- often in a few weeks.

If I had merely told those fine folks, my wonderful clients, what they wanted to hear or what they already thought they should be doing before they became clients, they would still be living in little apartments in East L.A. -- instead of multi-million-dollar mountain-top mansions.

Trust me. Good advice from you or me is worth money. Lots of it. The bigger the client and the more they need it, the more it's worth.

If Google were to give out advice, would you take it? You should. But, what if you said, "Hey wait a minute, I'm the boss here, I'm the client!" See how long it would take Google to sever the relationship with you if you tried to act like their boss. They're the experts. As clients, we do what they say... they are the consultants.

I don't have time to waste on people who pay me to "do what they say." If they already know what to do, why do they need me? Anybody can type.

I wasn't always so successful in consulting. I've paid my dues. I had to learn these lessons the hard way, but I did learn them early. It was extremely valuable. It's fundamental to who we all are, as consultants.

But, take it from someone who has done it: The road to success is NOT built on following someone else's orders.

Success is not built on marching in the parade, but in leading the parade.

As the consultant, it's your parade -- lead it!

[crankydave]

Originally Posted by Dubbya

When the Googlebot spider flags sites with excessive amounts of duplicate content or a spam report is sent in by a registered user, Google staffers can and do investigate. If they determine that the duplicate content is intentional, as it would be on mirror sites, they'll apply algorithmic filters and/or remove the offending sites from their index entirely.

I'm pretty sure that getting removed from the index would negatively affect both sites.

Just want to eloborate on this a bit...

If both sites are hosted on the same server, the same IP (and even if they're not... whois?) and it is determined that the "intent" is to "game" the rankings, both can be removed from the index.

Dave

[cg0404]

You know, there is always someone out there, including clients, who believe they know more than you. Sometimes they may be right, but in any case, all you can do is make your PROFESSIONAL recommendation, and if they choose not to listen, they will be the one who loses, not you. I work under a contract for all work that I do as it lines out the responsibilities on both sides, it can also relieve you of any obligations that you may have if the site does get banned or the results get fouled because the client did not follow your suggestions. My advice to you, is let the client do what they want, because they are paying you, but, make sure you work under an agreement that expressly states both parties responsibilities.

Good Luck!

[tbond]

CrankyDave is right. Taking bad advice from a client -- especially advice that violates the Google Terms of Service or similar rules of conduct for webmasters -- can get both of you banned. At best, it will certainly give you a bad reputation around the web, lower your rankings, ultimately reduce traffic from real buyers, and make your life and work much harder to enjoy.

As cg404 says, working under a contract that says you aren't responsible could help (possibly) give some protection from the client sites' being banned by any 3rd party due to policies he recommends or requires of you. This is an EMPLOYMENT contract. You are a "work for hire" type employee, and he assumes all responsibility for your actions. That's the point of the contract, one of them anyway. However, just because you both signed it doesn't mean a court will agree to it. The court didn't sign it. In fact the court can dissolve it. Courts can "penetrate" the veil of protection enjoyed by parties to any agreement. A court can enforce the agreement, or completely erase it and treat the parties as unprotected actors; each responsible for his own actions. It's done all the time in tax cases, for example.

When you walk into a court, you're in a special place. The "boss" there is the judge (and/or the jury). While they CAN recognize instruments that create "fictional relationships" like partnerships, corporations, contracted work arrangements, etc., they are not required to. If they decide to set aside such a relationship, watch out! Each individual is on their own.

Even employees are required by the law to follow certain commonly accepted legal, moral and ethical practices. Any contract between the client and the employed independent contractor, no matter what it says on its face, must still obey any and all controlling State and Federal laws governing the Internet. Further, they will both be liable, as agreed parties taking the contracted actions, to suffer any penalties exacted upon the action -- whether such penalties are exerted or enacted by governing authorities, search engines, ISP companies or whoever.

Some contracts designed to avoid external authority, laws and regulations are really a CONSPIRACY instead of a contract. An agreement between two parties that any actions they take under the agreement that violate laws, terms-of-service, regulations of ISP firms and so on will only result in actions upon one of the signatories to the contract could easily be set aside by any court. The agreement presupposes that there will be a violation and tries to evade responsibility. This is certainly a kind of conspiracy.

A court friendly to the worker might preserve the contract to protect the worker against civil claims of damages in court -- but only if the judge preferred to ignore the controlling body of common law pertaining to "generally accepted" practices. Many judges can dissolve a contract if it flies in the face of a "reasonableness" argument. This always surprises people who are new to the courts. A judge and a jury (when convened) has enormous power. The best plan is to STAY OUT OF COURT. The way to avoid the court is to DO THE RIGHT THING in the first place.

The point is: Obey the laws governing the 'net. Obey Google's TOS. Obey the commonly understood 'good practices' of being a webmaster. You're the professional. If you do something bad that was demanded by your client, any court or authority can judge you legally, morally and ethically (and even financially) responsible, setting aside any contract between you.

Not saying they WILL set it aside, only that they could and might do. Why not simply do the right thing in the first place. If the client insists, don't take the job.

[davidweb]

Originally Posted by sofomor

Hello,

I have been discussing this on other forums as well. What to know your views.

My client has bought two different domains example, abc.com and abc.co.uk but having the same design, marketing message and content in them. SEO stakes, do's and don'ts ! urgent pls.

If the content is same i would be making a single SEO strategy but the client wants both domains ranking top.

Thank you

It is more like SEO being persuaded to digg his own grave. Your client is persuading you ( due to his lack of SEO) into optimizing two duplicate websites simultaneously.

This will hit him back like a boomerang, and you would be held responsible for it.

Solution : Tell him directly that if content is same on both websites, then surely one of the sites will receive duplicate penalty. This way you will be in a safe-zone even if your client pushes you too hard.

We have seen instances where clients put up duplicate content on their websites and pass the buck to the SEO guys.

Avoid all the techniques listed at : Avoid these SEO Techniques » SEO HAWK

If your client is still inclined to use these self-suicidal techniques, then you must tell him the consequences of these techniques before proceeding with SEO.

[Peter (IMC)]

Originally Posted by tbond

Peter, I think that actually, the best philosophy is somewhere between Webnauts and my advice about "firing the client".

Every young consultant has to learn how to deal with problematic clients. I've been an independent advertising consultant since 1984, since I cleaned out my desk at a radio station and "hit the street" -- taking most of my radio clients with me.

It was a hard lesson to learn -- that bad clients can not only ruin your day, they can ruin your business and possibly even end your career! In order to survive and prosper, every new consultant has to learn which clients to "hire" and which to "fire".

If you have a client and his consultant alone in a room, ONE of them is the boss.

It's not the client.

Being an employee is not what we're about, right?

Any client who want to always "be the boss" clearly doesn't want a consultant... he wants an employee. Without paying benefits. So, tell 'em "no way José"! If you want ME to take your orders, pay me health insurance, give me paid vacations, a water cooler and a key to the employee lounge... otherwise, it's YOU who takes my advice. Or not. You pay me for advice, not for typing.

(Of course, I don't want their health insurance, their vacations, nor a key to anything.)

There is a give-and-take between client and consultant, where the client learns to accept the advice he's getting. Or not.

But, at some point, the self-destructive client must hear the famous words -- as Donald Trump said it so well... "You're Fired!"

Once the consultant has that bad client out of his life, he can go on to building successful projects for more willing clients. His and his other clients' success will grow faster, without that other guy dragging his heels and "gumming-up the works" for everybody.

And, on the web, that means a better world for all the rest of us!

I didn't agree with webnauts comment because it was in no way constructive. I agree with most of what you´re saying above. But "firing" a client should of course be a last resort. Client behaviour depends a lot on one's own behaviour.

Probably many consultants initially still behave like employees, and thus the client is likely to behave as a boss. It helps a lot if you know your stuff and you can explain every bad suggestion of a client away without even blinking an eye. Of course you need to be careful and do that correctly, especially when employees of the client are also present.

It sometimes is a real political battle ground you find your self in, making sure you´re hurting nobody's feelings, while staying on top of the discussion.

In any way, I think it is good that somofor went out to get some aditional information. It is clear in his question that he is more worried about how to present his solution to his client than that he is about the technical side of the problem. (one can argue about whether or not he has enough knowledge about SEO, but since he is not presenting himself as a "know-it-all", I personally have no problem with his question.

Webnauts first reply was a good one by the way.

[astro]

When up to your butt in crocodiles it is difficult to remember the original objective is to clear the swamp.

Problem:
Two sites different domains, same content and both need page one search results.

Solution:
Think positive! and go for the extra potential income of rebuilding the so called "Mirror" (hate that word and concept) which has different meta tags, images and different words. Simple.

Example:
I needed to promote in Australia. Go to google.com.au try search term... holiday accommodation with pools agia efimia.... (try to think how real people search not how professionals search...it is different! as I type this I am No1 with two listings then a little lower I am also No.3 different domain, different tags, different concept......same product exactly!

Use imagination to come up with a mirror concept that is acceptable. Then you get the extra income building a different site selling the same thing!

After all there are just so many ways to sell a dishwasher! Does this make the No1 listed "The site" and all the other mirrors? .....No!

Net result:
Clients gets what they want, you earn more and no one said no to anyone!

That's it swamp cleared, I am back to my pool, it's 42 here today.

Astro

[sofomor]

The reason for asking this question was to get feedback on what fellow members have experienced or some valuable advice. Unfortunately some of the respected members started discussing my credibility

I conveyed my message to my client (part of our contract) and he accepted it. Many clients are totally un-aware of SEO boundaries or limits and its only a matter of proper "SEO consultancy/counseling" so as to make them understand. There are some client's who think optimization means "ranking at all costs through every possible means"

Thank you

[kevsta]

Originally Posted by dburdon

Sofomor,

I have this discussion with clients all the time.

For me the answer is simple. If you own the .co.uk domain target that by definition to the UK.

If you own the .com extension of the same domain target that to your biggest non-uk market.

Host it there. If not, prioritise as the main market in Google webmaster tools.

Then make sure the tags and content are subtly different.

the answer is always simple when you know what it is good call, am in this conversation myself as we speak.

[ron angel]

[QUOTE=sofomor;386439]"ranking at all costs through every possible means"

That is what they are paying you for Its up to you to do it in anyway (white hat of course)you can or they will go elsewhere.