Google SERP ripples are now continuous waves

[inertia]

I've got a good idea what sort of answers I'm going to get here but I've got to comment on it anyway....What the hell is going on with Google SERPs???!!!

I'm familiar with the Google dance and Google everflux theories but for the last 3/4 months i have watched sites positions go up, down, left, right, here and there.....you get the picture!

When i started in the SEO game positions used to wobble and settle. Each Google update was rather like the ripples when you throw a stone in a lake, they eventually settle down! The ripples are no longer ripples they are continuous waves! I am running ranking reports on my clients sites and one day I'm happy, the next I'm sad! Has something changed?

[Dubbya]

I usually check the cache date on a site before I run reports, but you're right, I've seen phrases spiking and dropping from week to week over the past month or so. It can be frustrating, to say the least.

It seems that my highest results for long established keywords and phrases stay the same, but the "fringe" keyphrases where I've not done enough link building and content creation are all over the map.

I find it best to run reports a few days after G's hit the site but before they start ramping up to visit again. Yup, midway between visits usually gives me the results I'm looking for.

Do that consistently and the results are fairly balanced.

.02

[cw1865]

Without question. I'm fluxing 4-5 positions on some solild generic keywords.

[pomra]

Someone else commented that randomization may be part of the new algorithm. But for sure changes seem to occur by the minute.

[milonic]

I have to agree, It's mayhem at the moment - our site went up to PR9 on the last update but traffic has hit the floor ever since. We've not had it this bad for years.

I'm trying to figure it out but I've just about given up - LOL

Back to creating a better site what with business being so quiet at the moment. For us it's a good thing but for businesses that depend on their daily bread and butter can imagine it's not a pleasant feeling.

[Concept Interest]

Exactly the same picture in small Denmark - constant fluxing 4-5 positions on year old positions. And actually changing minut by minut. Some times I even see changes 2-3 positions in the very same browser session - just by hitting "Enter" again. I've seen this before but never this much, this long and this heavy.

[dburdon]

Looking after more than 20 sites, I'd agree that there's a lot more movement in the top 10. Interestingly, the behaviour pattern seems to be replicating the results on Google local search. There the results for identical searches seem to rotate the leading positions.

[incrediblehelp]

Not sure how "random" these shifts are. Considering localization, personalization, previous query and other factors we have no idea about, it seems like it is pretty planned on Google's part.

[Milo]

I'm anywhere from #7 to #13 for my main term and have been like this for months. I've also noticed that the other websites in similar positions are doing the same, BUT NOT THE TOP 4, they have stayed strong and not moved more than a position.
Fair - no.
Jealous - yes.

[Searching]

I've noticed constant changes over the last couple of months.
I've also noted that Google Webmaster keyword rankings are different to the other tools I use. I use SEOSERP.com Search Engine Optimization tools Top 1000 Google Rankings SERPs Checker to check regional Google results .

[bunkbedking]

I thought it was just me - I have seen my 2 primary keywords going up and down by 4 to 5 positions and in and out of page 1 over the last couple of weeks - one day we are all very happy, the next day sad. We are now logging our daily google organic clicks against our page position to see what is the impact on sales conversions

[ami_iss]

Amen. Please notice the number of pages that Google claims it has indexed for a keyword or phrase. These also vary from time to time and go DOWN - not just up.
Checks from different places in USA give different results for a site that should not be localized. Sometimes one page is main and another is subsidiary (indented) and sometimes the opposite - for no apparent reason.
They seem to be experimenting with different algorithms in different places or different servers.
It may be driven by link popularity.
Google Top 1000 SERPs checker: results many countries Google Pagerank SERPs index results web SEO tools does not appear to reflect what people really see when they do a search - check it out.

[Big Juice]

The ride has only just begun and it will get worse. We webmasters have been invited to a Roshambo match and Google won the coin toss. Roshambo is the most extreme sport there is. - CollegeHumor video

[Milo]

Originally Posted by Big Juice

The ride has only just begun and it will get worse. We webmasters have been invited to a Roshambo match and Google won the coin toss. Roshambo is the most extreme sport there is. - CollegeHumor video

Don't think it has just begun. I've been seeing this fluctuation since 2 January. I'm also seeing some very poor results thrown in, websites that are extensions from hosting co's (messageinabottlenetau dot melbourneitwebsites dot com/cat/index.cgi/shopfront/view_by_category?) with very little to do with the search term and very little info on them for example. Worth mentioning that this is affecting the top 4 very little. This is my experience anyway.

[Jackyboy]

Well, I actually watched the PR change on one of my sites yesterday. From 2 to 4 within 30 secs on refresh. So, let's see -- if I were Google and into making tons more cash quick, I'd develop a rotator for SERPS that is still reliable for the user delivering good results in highly competitive categories and thereby force more cash to the cows over at Adwords for those advertiser folks who must get back on page one. Makes sense to me.

[Milo]

Originally Posted by Jackyboy

Well, I actually watched the PR change on one of my sites yesterday. From 2 to 4 within 30 secs on refresh. So, let's see -- if I were Google and into making tons more cash quick, I'd develop a rotator for SERPS that is still reliable for the user delivering good results in highly competitive categories and thereby force more cash to the cows over at Adwords for those advertiser folks who must get back on page one. Makes sense to me.

Sure, makes sense from a business point of view, but this is not how Google maintains their system works (algo's). If this is a quick way to make cash, then where does that leave SEO if this keeps on going on.

PS, my PR went up as well, but that makes no difference to me if my SERP's don't go up. Is it a case of give a little, take a lot. This is certainly my case if you saw my adwords spend. But without Adwords I would not be in business today.

[inertia]

im seein huge changes in competing pages as well. From millions to 100 thousands. When the competing pages is lower im doing better and vice versa. It seams to have something to do with the indents as well i think.

[Big Juice]

Originally Posted by Milo

Don't think it has just begun. I've been seeing this fluctuation since 2 January.

Begun is relevant to when individuals noticed it

[Milo]

Originally Posted by Big Juice

Begun is relevant to when individuals noticed it

So, you're saying it began before this then? I monitor my website daily, every day, and my position dropped on 2 January, not 1 January or prior to that. My point though is that its been going on for a long time.

[MrGamm]

Woo Hoo!!!...

Does this mean we can all stop taking the search results so seriously and start enjoying other aspects of life?

[morestar]

Originally Posted by MrGamm

Woo Hoo!!!...

Does this mean we can all stop taking the search results so seriously and start enjoying other aspects of life?

like what?

[Zombie Master]

It's been happening to us now for about two months. For a week or so, we are in the highest of rankings and then they all go off the radar.

It has become very bad for business and we've renewed our efforts to exchange quality links with appropriate sites.

[alienpest]

I don't think it is being driven by link popularity as someone posited. I have a site that just went live a couple of weeks ago, and has almost no links, but has popped up to positions in the top 10 for almost all the keywords I was hoping to rank for. It even supplanted some of my more well heeled sites.

[MrGamm]

Originally Posted by morestar

like what?

How about free online dating?

[morestar]

Originally Posted by MrGamm

How about free online dating?

thanks you're right, free online dating is good for someone, if they're single that is...i've noticed my rankings have just gotten better and better since january on my free online dating site to be honest with you and for a few other sites i manage. im going good !!

[amabaie]

One client has been jumping at Google.ca between 12-13 and 1-2 for a very highly competitive search term. At this moment it is spending a rare moment in between those two extremes at #4. Interestingly, at least one of the other sites in the race has also been jumping back and forth between the tops of pages 1 and 2.

Very strange.

[alienpest]

My site, Bugs And Weeds, was number 1 for the term bugs and weeds this morning, now it is number 2, the number 1 slot is filled by a much older, and very nice site that held that position for a long time. For about a month before, he had almost completely vanished. I am glad to see him back. He is really nice guy, and we have gone back and forth quite a bit between the 1 and 2 positions. Who knows where we will be an hour from now?!

[joezeppy]

In addition to Google changing methods, isn't it possible that since we are not operating in a vacuum that there are more and more competitors active in SEO causing changes. Certainly we can't expect that no one else is trying to achieve our ranking positions. Sooner or later there will have to be some jockeying. Maybe this is the time.

[Dubbya]

Originally Posted by incrediblehelp

Not sure how "random" these shifts are. Considering localization, personalization, previous query and other factors we have no idea about, it seems like it is pretty planned on Google's part.

I'd lay odds that you're dead right on all counts, Incredible. (what else is new?)

[Chuckmiser]

the new google dance ants in yurl pants!

[pathikbd]

From the Stompernet videos on duplicate contents, I came to know that Google will not cache duplicate pages in their servers. I have also seen drop of "Total Number of Pages" in Google for some keywords. The scary thing is, if you have been link building with the same set of Contents and keywords and didn't differentiate the contents, anchor texts, links for your site, then the previous work was totally effortless. Because, out of all the link pages, only one is cached in Google.

[wilderness]

Originally Posted by Big Juice

The ride has only just begun and it will get worse. We webmasters have been invited to a Roshambo match and Google won the coin toss. Roshambo is the most extreme sport there is. - CollegeHumor video

Mmmm. Roshambo....I had never heard the term before and of course being blonde, I had to go check it out.
I'm not certain as to where the IQ of our young people has gone to, but what I saw were what I would qualify as the new 'blondes' of our society. It takes a lot of brains to damage that which helps in human reproduction, and studies do show that indeed, in sports where those injuries are more common, child reproduction is reduced by huge percentages.
Then again, one has to think...if you're that dumb...should you reproduce?
On to the question at hand. I actually sent a query out last night to relatives spread across the States asking them to type in a certain search term and to report back to me what results they got. As Incredible suggests, I suspect place may have a lot to do with the SERPs.
I showed up #1 (on the goog) one day after posting a blog about a grizzly bear attack in a place about 100 miles from my area. Granted, since it is so near to my area, perhaps that gave the blog more credence, but beating out Fox news among others is an amazing feat to me, and yet my page rank as per the green bar has dropped yet another mark to a paltry 2 now. Up until the last week my page visits were up but that green bar was going down. I'm where I want to be for my keywords, but lately I'm afraid to even check from this computer, for fear it might affect the results. So rather than become a complete paranoid, I decided I needed fresh air, a new outlook on life, and decided to go put some flooring down in my guest cabin. The g can take a powder. I give up!

[inertia]

Originally Posted by incrediblehelp

Not sure how "random" these shifts are. Considering localization, personalization, previous query and other factors we have no idea about, it seems like it is pretty planned on Google's part.

But if im checking my SERPs from the same place everyday (which i do) then surely factors like the ones you suggest will be constant.

I always log out of my google account. I always use .co.uk on a world search?

Can you offer any further explanation incredible?

[rob_greenbucks]

The impact of Universal Search blending vertical search (local, video, image and news etc)
in the normal web SERPs on Google may push some of the first page / top 10 results downwards.
Depending on industry the share of vertical results may cause fluctuations in the rankings.

It is also worth to remember that not only the Google algo and what SEOs do to our
clients websites but also what their competitors and their SEOs do to their site may result in fluctuations.
The value of content "freshness" might have been upgraded, and that could possibly be yet one reason for
fluctuations in the rankings.

The point with AdWords was not bad...Fluctuations in rankings may well increase the amount spent on AdWords...
Google is indeed a stock listed company and will for look for opportunities to increase their revenue,
although they should be doing "Ok"... ; )

[littlegiant]

Yeah it's totally bonkers out there in Googleland. If I was new at this game, I'd be a complete nervous wreck by now. I'm also seeing poor results thrown in, i.e., new sites that have no mention of the keyword anywhere on the page whatsoever and a weaker backlink profile suddenly outranking rock solid well established top 10 pages. Lasts for a few days and then it goes back to 'normal'.

[incrediblehelp]

Originally Posted by inertia

But if im checking my SERPs from the same place everyday (which i do) then surely factors like the ones you suggest will be constant.

I always log out of my google account. I always use .co.uk on a world search?

Can you offer any further explanation incredible?

Well then how about the normal reason rankings change so much:

1. new pages being introduced to the index
2. new competition, better optimized pages than yours
3. changes to your pages, that could result in change in rankings
4. lack of changes on your pages

Folks there are a million other things you should be watching for and doing in SEO other than worrying about rankings.

[joncase]

Originally Posted by pomra

Someone else commented that randomization may be part of the new algorithm. But for sure changes seem to occur by the minute.

A colleague suggested that if you have the G toolbar or a G account, G tracks what sites you click on in the SERPs for a certain search term, to determine which sites might be more popular. (Also the amount of time you spend on that site before you go back and choose another site from the SERP. Not an unreasonable theory. But if the same 10 sites always show up on page one, other sites will never get to be "voted on".

Is it possible G is randomizing the results from the first several pages, or deeper pages, to see if some of the "lessor" sites may attract more votes? If they show that they are "stronger", G may move them up on a more permanent basis.

[inertia]

Originally Posted by incrediblehelp

Well then how about the normal reason rankings change so much:

1. new pages being introduced to the index
2. new competition, better optimized pages than yours
3. changes to your pages, that could result in change in rankings
4. lack of changes on your pages

Folks there are a million other things you should be watching for and doing in SEO other than worrying about rankings.

Don't worry about rankings?! Try telling that to my clients?! I'm lucky! I don't have an eCommerce site and I don't rely on a particular site for my income. But the reality is that for a lot of people rankings are HIGHLY important. It has a direct bearing on their traffic/sales/income.

All the reasons that you stated for peaks and troughs in your rankings have been around for years but the huge differences that people are seeing from week to week, day to day, hour to hour have only been happening since the turn of the year.

No-one can offer an explanation as to why the level of competition for keywords is up and down like a dutch hooker???!!

[incrediblehelp]

You should be looking at conversions and raw logs for success not rankings as they are obviously not a reliable metric as this thread proves.

[zycon5000]

I too have noticed these constant, short-term changes in Google with my site and competing sites. Definitely some experimentation going on. Knock on wood, though, so far so good!

[Milo]

Originally Posted by joncase

Is it possible G is randomizing the results from the first several pages, or deeper pages, to see if some of the "lessor" sites may attract more votes? If they show that they are "stronger", G may move them up on a more permanent basis.

I find this very feasable as I am seeing websites pop-in to the top 10 that have not been there before and that are obviously not as good quality as the others on the SERP. Mind you, they disappear just as fast, but if they are clicked, then do they show up more often and after a while stay in top positions?
Yesterday, I saw a page that really was not as relevant with very little info pop in to the #2 slot. Only to be gone a few hours later. I be keeping an eye on whether they pop up again. There is a website that did show up a few weeks ago and was gone quickly. Now it shows up more often. I actually clicked on this site to see what it was all about, maybe adding to its popularity

A good theory joncase

[zycon5000]

Originally Posted by Milo

I find this very feasable as I am seeing websites pop-in to the top 10 that have not been there before and that are obviously not as good quality as the others on the SERP. Mind you, they disappear just as fast, but if they are clicked, then do they show up more often and after a while stay in top positions?
Yesterday, I saw a page that really was not as relevant with very little info pop in to the #2 slot. Only to be gone a few hours later. I be keeping an eye on whether they pop up again. There is a website that did show up a few weeks ago and was gone quickly. Now it shows up more often. I actually clicked on this site to see what it was all about, maybe adding to its popularity

A good theory joncase

We've actually talked to an SEO company who concurred on this theory as well. Basically Google is "experimenting" with other sites to see how searchers react, etc.

[Webnauts]

I have been invited to visit this thread and share with you my observations.

I have noticed that Google is misbehaving, treating quality web sites unfair.
For instance:

- They penalize sites for selling links, even if they don't.
- They rank high web sites that are stuffing keywords heavily.
- and more....

I have noticed in this thread that there is no word about the supplemental index and their pages.
In search results many supplemental pages show up, and those are heavily increasing.

Google claimed that supplemental index does not exist, because they can update more frequently. PURE BULLS...
Professional SEOs know though that it is not true.

Google did not clean up the supplemental index for almost 5 months. Can you imagine how many garbage pages are added since then? I am not claiming that it is the reason of the fluxes. It is a point though that COULD be taken into account.

The last update, "DEWEY" was also a huge problem of Google. They screwed up! And my question is: Did the fix their mistake? I have serious reasons to doubt that.

Since years I was preaching to do best adhering to Google's guidelines, and most were claiming that Google cannot really enforce their guidelines, since physically or technically it is not possible. Do you meet their guidelines requirements already? Just thinking loud.

What is with the nofollow attribute and those weird PR sculpting techniques very famous SEOs were preaching? Why did they give up talking about it? Did they probably put their tails between their legs?

Interesting thread by the way.

[incrediblehelp]

Originally Posted by Webnauts

Google did not clean up the supplemental index for almost 5 months. Can you imagine how many garbage pages are added since then? I am not claiming that it is the reason of the fluxes. It is a point though that COULD be taken into account.

Very true it still exists.

[DVDStar]

Hi everyone,

I'm a bit confused with people saying that this is a new thing. I've been seeing this most notably on one of our sites since at least November last year. We were at the time optimising heavily for the keyword usb flash drives and the related site was fluctuating throughout the day sometimes, hour to hour.

At 9am it might be P3, 1pm P5, 4pm P2 and so on. I've seen it with my own eyes late last year!

SO HERES MY 2 THEORIES - based on seeing this with several of my sites I think i have noticed something. When I posted a link "cd duplication" on a music services site we had 100 click throughs in 2 days. The keywords position in turn jumped (the link was no follow and had not been indexed). The same pattern for other keywords and other sites. The more people who 'slide' through to your site on the back of a specific keyword, more it will move about DYNAMICALLY from day to day, hour to hour.

Theory no 2 is that just like Adwords campaigns, if a customer searches for "cd duplication" and clicks your organic listing before anyone else’s (even though you are say P7 in the listings) then that site is given a 'vote' and the ranking of that page therefore moves up the listings. This would therefore stress the importance of page headings and descriptions (which is just how the Adwords model works). Therefore, to suggest that Google has incorporated some of the latter programming when ranking organic listings makes sense to me!

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[MuNKyonline]

The SERP results for my main targeted phrase has been shuffling the top results. In the morning my site could be position 2, afternoon position 3.

This has been happening since the PR update. Google has broken something. I've not noticed fluctuations like this to happen this quickly before.

And as others have pointed out, the sites that keep shuffling to positions above mine are poor quality with spammed keywords.

Although saying that, this morning my site has returned to pos 1. Maybe this afternoon it will have shuffled again?

[davidweb]

Originally Posted by inertia

The ripples are no longer ripples they are continuous waves! I am running ranking reports on my clients sites and one day I'm happy, the next I'm sad! Has something changed?

There are some really strange objects being observed on Google. It looks like some UFO passed over Google headquarters .

[steveteva]

The reason for this could simply be making some cash, if Google want some cash they just have to do what you see now, all websites relaying on Google for business are angry, I know a lot of them. The only thing they can do is : YES, Adwords! until all comes back like before but don't know when

[Chuckmiser]

I am waiting for the $99.95 program that stops and starts your adwords in rhythm with your listings ups and downs.

[inertia]

Originally Posted by Chuckmiser

I am waiting for the $99.95 program that stops and starts your adwords in rhythm with your listings ups and downs.

Bloody hell! What a concept! Tell me this.... would any of you trust google enough to do this??