Can inbound links really hurt you?

[deepsand]

Originally Posted by inertia

...and therein lies the punishment! IF you buy loads of dodgy links then your SERPs are balancing on a knife edge. You risk all those sites loosing their page rank (which we've all seen in the last 12 months). All those links become crap and your SERPs drop!

So, with regards to the "sabotage" aspect which we've been discussing. It would be possible to give your competitors some great SERPs which all of a sudden disappear and they don't know why!?

Were that the case, however, they really would not have been penalized, as that which they lost was not rightfully their's to hold.

Still, it could seriously mess with someone's head.

[deepsand]

Originally Posted by activeco

There is a Jewish curse that goes something like this: "Let he have a lot and then lose"!

"Onto him whom the Gods would punish they first grant all his wishes."

[deepsand]

Originally Posted by galide

I really don't know what to say ..., I cannot understand your logic.

you have inspired me for a blog post: Galide: SEO: top 5 list of sophisms

It's been a while since first having learned of the various fallacies and their names, but, I believe that what we continue to witness here re. claims that "bad" IBLs are categorically harmful is properly defined as argumentum ad ignorantiam, a most commonly employed sophistic reasoning.

Argument from ignorance - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[activeco]

Originally Posted by deepsand

"Onto him whom the Gods would punish they first grant all his wishes."

[activeco]

Originally Posted by galide

Note: please don't take offence crankydave, but you have inspired me for a blog post: Galide: SEO: top 5 list of sophisms

Galide, I am afraid you missed it a little bit here.
I think you took Dave's statement too much personal for some reason and further act unnecessarily in a slightly emotional way.

As deepsand rightly says "It's been a while since first having learned of the various fallacies and their names", but IMO it cannot be the correct argument in a non-related discussion or SEO topic.

Let me say that NOTHING is provable, but the perception of the most "steady" parameters is actually product of one's understanding and personal experiences. In the same way one can perceive some statement as true, false or if you like, sophism or anything else.
SEO business is sophism itself and for many it means selling hot air, but for some others it means an incredible help, depending on how much money it brings in.

Most of us here speak out of pure experience and it's no wonder that you hear diametrically different statements. It is very helpful to hear as many as possible opinions in order to either make our own as a starting point or to possibly adjust already built up values.

[crankydave]

galide...

First a question...

How can you prevent something from happening that cannot happen?

Clearly, you think it can't happen until someone proves to your satisfaction that it can. Prove it to yourself or are you just digging for a few links?

You wish to be "noble" and "serve the community". By all means go right ahead. I've already pointed out there are plenty "folks" ("companies" used loosely) that are only too happy to spam your links on forums, blogs, guests books, etc. thousands of times. They are not hard to find.

Personally, I seriously doubt you'll, as the saying goes, "put your money where your mouth is".

Typically I don't take offense easily. When I do, it's not a secret. As far as your blog post goes, if you're suggesting that I'm somehow trying to deceive anyone, you're sorely mistaken.

Dave

[galide]

Personally, I seriously doubt you'll, as the saying goes, "put your money where your mouth is".

If someone is interested in finding out whether the theory is true or not, they can try to hit our site. I am not interested to be honest

Let me say that NOTHING is provable

How can you prevent something from happening that cannot happen?

Is it a contest??

Nothing personal guys, I am just genuinely impressed by the amount of pure wisdom we have got in this thread!

SEO business is sophism itself

in other words SEO business is "confusing or illogical argument used for deceiving someone". I am sure you don't mean that, but unfortunately this is what you write. And I am sure CrankyDave that you don't have any intention to deceive anyone, but again I can quote a few things you write which are very misleading and confusing. Just trying to help the community out here, and help giving SEO the credibility it deserves.

White flag guys, please don't shoot at me (you can shoot at my sites though, this is fine ) - we are all here to promote SEO.

[activeco]

Originally Posted by galide

Nothing personal guys, I am just genuinely impressed by the amount of pure wisdom we have got in this thread!

Just trying to help the community out here, and help giving SEO the credibility it deserves.

I have seen this approach before.

[leesw]

Originally Posted by kgun

If it can really hurt you it would be to easy for an competitor to destroy your site. In my view, a sensible programmed SeBOT should only give non negative weight to IBL's. That means that a link can carry zero weight as a lower limit.

This is how I've always seen it. Giving motivation to competition to harm another business by adding bad links to it wouldn't make sense.

[galide]

I have seen this approach before.

Would like to see the approach a bit more to be honest, cutting the crap out. Ok, let's make peace guys, and focus on the topic of this thread, in a non sophistic way

Agree with leesw, I think we all do except cranky dave who has got his own theory on the matter. Now, if someone comes up to you, and tells you that they suspect their site to be penalised because of bad neighborough, what would you recommend?

[crankydave]

That's what I figured galide.

I gave you the "means". The way to find out yourself. The only question that remains is whether or not you take it, or if all the "blue sky and sunshine" you're painting yourself in is simply hollow talk. Whether or not you're prepared to learn something, first hand, or whether you'd rather continue to be sarcastic and insulting.

Dave

[galide]

mmh, quite a patronising comment... I wish I could ask the moderator to jump in and get some of us to focus more on the topic of the thread instead of letting their ego dictate their comments

Please don't take this as an insult, but I didn't learn anything from you so far Dave, and I am here also to learn as much as I can from this thread. So that's why I ask my question in the first place.

Agree with leesw, I think we all do except cranky dave who has got his own theory on the matter. Now, if someone comes up to you, and tells you that they suspect their site to be penalised because of bad neighborough, what would you recommend?

So..shall we get back to the topic of the thread?

[inertia]

So, if i can sum up what we've decided so far... Bad links in vast numbers wont do your site any good. Some people think that they will have an negative effect, some think bad links are essentially seen as neutral.

What makes sense to me is that the punishment comes when you build too many links from sites that are hit by PageRank drops. I have to say that i have seen evidence of this a few times. But that is the only pit fall I've observed from bad linking.

[Peter (IMC)]

Anyone remember trafficpower?

Confirming a penalty

[inertia]

What exactly were they doing that was against guidelines?

[Peter (IMC)]

just about everything,...

[crankydave]

Originally Posted by galide

mmh, quite a patronising comment... I wish I could ask the moderator to jump in and get some of us to focus more on the topic of the thread instead of letting their ego dictate their comments

Please don't take this as an insult, but I didn't learn anything from you so far Dave, and I am here also to learn as much as I can from this thread. So that's why I ask my question in the first place.


So..shall we get back to the topic of the thread?

Ego? Hardly.

Topic... Can inbound links really hurt you? Every one of my posts is on topic.

The short answer remains, yes. I've given you a way to prove it to yourself. An easy way. You don't even have to "share" what happens. But that would smack right in face of "noble" and "just trying to help the community out" wouldn't it?

What's the problem? Not so convinced your assumptions are right? And no, don't ask that I, or any other member of this forum spam your links for you. That, is entirely up to you to do.

People who say "don't take offense" do so because they already know their comments are "offensive".

I already know the answer to the "topic". To the question that was asked. I've given you a way you can prove it to yourself... repeatedly. You don't have to accept anyone's opinion. You can easily prove it to youself. The choice remains yours.

So what's your choice galide? Are going to "put up" or keep talking smack?

Dave