Is PageRank the Primary Google Search Ranking Factor?

[Webnauts]

I was always preaching here and elsewhere that PageRank (NOT TOOLBAR) is a very important search ranking factor. And I cannot remember that any member here or elsewhere agreed with me.

I was debating, day and night, for weeks, for months, for years. And I was obviously telling that I was not about that toolbar. Simply use the search function of WPW, and you will find those posts if you have any doubts of what I am saying.

It could have been that I could not pose my position as Andy achieved here: PageRank Is The Primary Google Search Ranking Factor | Andy Beard - Niche Marketing

After reading his article, tell me what you think: Is PageRank the Primary Google Search Ranking Factor?

As I said: For me it was, it is and it will always be a major factor.

Anyway, I feel once again confirmed...

[Alan-Hart]

i dont think it's the primary nor the most important factor as i have had sites with PR0 come first in SERPs with many competing sites with higher PR below it.

Having said this PR doesn't hurt though

[thindenim]

I agree that a page has to have a certain amount of pagerank to be included in the main index, after which other factors kick in.

As boosting up the pagerank of your home page gives it more juice to pass to other pages, then it would seem to be the most important factor. You need the pagerank to be at the races in the first place.

[ctabuk]

Things may come and things may go

But Internal Pagerank is the only way to go


Thanks folks - you may pay me later.

Building links - authority links - google analytics - the SEO for me.

[weslinda]

First, I've never disagreed with you on that statement. Google themselves share that PR is the basis of their system. So you have at least one person agreeing with you on this site.

Now, onto this post. I think that it comes back to the truth. Google has shared this for quite a while, and I don't see anything changing anytime soon. I think truth be told, many SEO "specialists" or designers simply don't get to this level of information. Most don't take the time to dig this deep, and therefore are unable to honestly share whether this is an issue or not.

Lets take the all holy grail of "link-building". If you're searching for "links", don't you search for the best pages with the highest PR that is on topic to your site to get a link from? Doesn't that alone attest to the importance of PR?

I rest my case

[Webnauts]

Originally Posted by Alan-Hart

i dont think it's the primary nor the most important factor as i have had sites with PR0 come first in SERPs with many competing sites with higher PR below it.

Having said this PR doesn't hurt though

How do you know that they have PR 0?

[Alan-Hart]

Originally Posted by weslinda

I rest my case

OK smarty pants, you got me there

[Alan-Hart]

Originally Posted by Webnauts

How do you know that they have PR 0?

er... google toolbar

[weslinda]

Alan, did you even read the post Webnauts posted before you commented?

[Webnauts]

Originally Posted by Alan-Hart

er... google toolbar

You tell how much you much PR you have looking at the toolbar? WOW!

[Alan-Hart]

example: alanhart.co.uk PR0

google UK search for: alan hart web design

comes No.1 out of about 1,990,000

[Webnauts]

Originally Posted by weslinda

First, I've never disagreed with you on that statement.

Sorry Wes. You are right there. You always agreed with me.
Lets see who else agreed with me and I have probably forgotten him/her.

[ctabuk]

Googe toolbar pagerank is for the faeries at the bottom of the garden. It is not true Pagerank - Do yourself a huge favour and delete the dreaded toolbar

[weslinda]

Alan that term, with quotes, offers a lot less results to choose from. "alan hart web design" - Google Search

Can you please, pretty please, use something of substance to make your point?

[Alan-Hart]

As far as i'm aware the PR in Google toolbar is about 3 months behind the current date?

[ctabuk]

Originally Posted by Webnauts

You tell how much you much PR you have looking at the toolbar? WOW!

Now, play nice - he's new - he has yet to learn that Google Toolbar is old hat rhooobarb

[weslinda]

If we simply type in Alan Hart, well, you don't do so well now do you?

[Webnauts]

Originally Posted by Alan-Hart

example: alanhart.co.uk PR0

google UK search for: alan hart web design

comes No.1 out of about 1,990,000

Since when is "alan hart web design" a competitive term?

Alan, don't try to make me forget what I already have learned buddy.

[ctabuk]

Originally Posted by Alan-Hart

As far as i'm aware the PR in Google toolbar is about 3 months behind the current date?

Alan if you are in and about the car boot sales in Swindon over the weekend - see if you can locate a crystal ball - they are 100% more accurate than the toolbar.

[Webnauts]

Originally Posted by weslinda

If we simply type in Alan Hart, well, you don't do so well now do you?

Wes what are you talking about? Is Alan Hart a so famous brand or celebrity that it will be searched?

[Webnauts]

Originally Posted by Alan-Hart

As far as i'm aware the PR in Google toolbar is about 3 months behind the current date?

That is correct!

[Alan-Hart]

a google.co.uk search for web design returns:

1. Mutiny Web Design, Development & SEO Services (PR4)
2. www.mbwebdesign.co.uk (PR5)
3. Web design - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (PR7)
4. Web Design in the UK (PR5)
5. Dolphin Promotions Web Design and SEO Company UK. Search Engine Optimisation UK. (PR4)

[weslinda]

And? Your point?

[ctabuk]

Originally Posted by Webnauts

That is correct!

Give or take a year

[Alan-Hart]

please remember that i and people in the UK use google.co.uk

[Webnauts]

Originally Posted by Alan-Hart

a google.co.uk search for web design returns:

1. Mutiny Web Design, Development & SEO Services (PR4)
2. www.mbwebdesign.co.uk (PR5)
3. Web design - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (PR7)
4. Web Design in the UK (PR5)
5. Dolphin Promotions Web Design and SEO Company UK. Search Engine Optimisation UK. (PR4)

And your point?

[Webnauts]

Originally Posted by Alan-Hart

please remember that i and people in the UK use google.co.uk

Then you should tell us where are you ranking in the UK for "web design".

[Webnauts]

Originally Posted by ctabuk

Do yourself a huge favour and delete the dreaded toolbar

and look at your PageRank in your Google Webmaster Tools. There it is never older than 30 days.

[Alan-Hart]

Originally Posted by Webnauts

And your point?

The only point i am making is that a site with lower PR can come higher in SERPs than one with a lower PR.
That is all, I am not saying PR doesn't mean anything, just that it doesn't appear to be the "be all and end all" so to speak. Of course i wouldn't say no to haven't a site with PR10!

[weslinda]

Alan, ranking is not solely PR, there are lots of variables, but your original statement was the PR meant nothing, as a PR 0 site could rank. We simply refuted that.

Lets take a look at your example. Since you feel that what we're saying is that PR is the only factor, and that you can't take into account factors such as regionality and search phrase and so forth, then Wikipedia should have ranked higher, except that it isn't really that relevant to the search, unless the searcher wants to learn web design.

The question Google has to answer is whether the searcher is looking for information on how to do web design, web design services, web design companies, web design jobs...what is the searcher looking for.

In the long run, PR & Relevancy is what determines search results.

Finally, the topic started as Webnauts asking if PR was still "dead" as many on this forum have espoused in the past. So in honesty, we're way off topic in this, but we'll obviously be open to discuss this as we move forward.

[Alan-Hart]

Originally Posted by Webnauts

and look at your PageRank in your Google Webmaster Tools. There it is never older than 30 days.

it's probably just be me being blind, but where is PageRank in webmaster tools?

[Webnauts]

Originally Posted by Alan-Hart

The only point i am making is that a site with lower PR can come higher in SERPs than one with a lower PR.
That is all, I am not saying PR doesn't mean anything, just that it doesn't appear to be the "be all and end all" so to speak. Of course i wouldn't say no to haven't a site with PR10!

Two questions:

1. Did you read the article I posted above?
2. What do you understand from the word Primary? One and only?

[Alan-Hart]

ok, my bad. was just passing on my opinion for discussion.

Correct me if i'm wrong but PageRank seems to be just a calculation of relevance which is based on link juice, keyword content etc. so pageRank itself is not the primary but more "as a result of" everything else.

[Webnauts]

Originally Posted by Alan-Hart

ok, my bad. was just passing on my opinion for discussion.

Correct me if i'm wrong but PageRank seems to be just a calculation of relevance which is based on link juice, keyword content etc. so pageRank itself is not the primary but more "as a result of" everything else.

I will let Google correct you: Google Technology

[torpengkute]

Originally Posted by Alan-Hart

er... google toolbar

Bro!

Sometimes Google toolbar is not accurate with the results given...
try to use Different kinds of PR tools to determine more accurately.

Good luck.

Originally Posted by ctabuk

Now, play nice - he's new - he has yet to learn that Google Toolbar is old hat rhooobarb

Nice one Sir... Because newbies in this forum are really want to gain their SEO Skills not to argue with a lot of group people here...



Peace

[Webnauts]

Originally Posted by torpengkute

Nice one Sir... Because newbies in this forum are really want to gain their SEO Skills not to argue with a lot of group people here...

Peace

If newbies want to improve their skills, they must site back and read the advices of the professionals here, and not argue with them.

Peace.

[torpengkute]

Originally Posted by Webnauts

If newbies want to improve their skills, they must site back and read the advices of the professionals here, and not argue with them.

Peace.

Ok Sir... But I'm expressing my own opinion here like what I did on other SEO forums...

Nice to know you here.

[Webnauts]

Originally Posted by torpengkute

Ok Sir... But I'm expressing my own opinion here like what I did on other SEO forums...

That is absolutely ok.

Originally Posted by torpengkute

Nice to know you here.

Thank you buddy. Nice to know you too.

[incrediblehelp]

Originally Posted by Webnauts

And I cannot remember that any member here or elsewhere agreed with me.

Not sure where this is coming from. I know i have never disagreed with that. Google themselves says that the weighting of back links (PR) is really the life blood of the algo. You can clearly see this by looking at why certain pages rank higher than others and this is also why spamming Google still works.

[uberanimal]

a good test would be a site that was recently taken down... where the domain is parked... if it had a PR5 and it is down usually that PR5 hangs on for another serveral months. This happend to one of my old sites last year. the PR lasted for about 3 months at least after the site was no longer in existance.

[mjtaylor]

PageRank has always been very, very important.

If newbies want to improve their skills, they must site back and read the advices of the professionals here, and not argue with them.

Please consider that it seems as if some of the longer term and more knowledgable members actually bait other members *to* argue ...

And please consider that it's actually possible to help them without embarrassing them ...

[Webnauts]

Originally Posted by mjtaylor

And please consider that it's actually possible to help them without embarrassing them ...

I do not understand MJ. Did I embarrass someone here?

[kevsta]

Originally Posted by Webnauts

I was always preaching here and elsewhere that PageRank (NOT TOOLBAR) is a very important search ranking factor. And I cannot remember that any member here or elsewhere agreed with me.

I was debating, day and night, for weeks, for months, for years. And I was obviously telling that I was not about that toolbar. Simply use the search function of WPW, and you will find those posts if you have any doubts of what I am saying.

It could have been that I could not pose my position as Andy achieved here: PageRank Is The Primary Google Search Ranking Factor | Andy Beard - Niche Marketing

After reading his article, tell me what you think: Is PageRank the Primary Google Search Ranking Factor?

As I said: For me it was, it is and it will always be a major factor.

Anyway, I feel once again confirmed...

ive been having this argument with all the divs going around saying "pagerank is dead" because they heard someone else say it and it sounded cool for months now.

its not dead, its still a fundamental a part of the picture.

[cz]

N/Text comment deleted

[benc007]

"But Internal Pagerank is the only way to go"

ctabuk, can you elaborate on how you can build internal pagerank?

[kevsta]

you get more <strong> links pointing into your site.

a pagerank 1 page with 1 link (in total) from the page, which points to you, is stronger than a pagerank 4 page with 100 links from it, one of which points to you.

as we cant see real PR you have to work with what we have, but it does at least allow educated guesses and to work on best guess assumptions.

[incrediblehelp]

Originally Posted by kevsta

a pagerank 1 page with 1 link (in total) from the page, which points to you, is stronger than a pagerank 4 page with 100 links from it, one of which points to you. .

How did you figure this? How do you know it is not equal? Backlink credit is not quantitative at all. It is about quality.

[kevsta]

well, its kind of a theory have been working under the assumptions for a while, have you seen the linkdiagnosis tool?

pagestrength (ie real PR) divided by the amount of OBLs should give you a rough approximation of linkstrength passed by each link?

obviously its not showing Google's information, nor their link weightings for quality / relevance and all the rest of it, but it seems to work pretty well just the same.

edit. I should say I was analysing a competitor's (many) site structurings and SERP performance with it when the penny really dropped a few months back.

[incrediblehelp]

Originally Posted by kevsta

pagestrength (ie real PR) divided by the amount of OBLs should give you a rough approximation of linkstrength passed by each link?

I dont think it is as simple as that at all. Your never going to know what real PR is. Also PR is just number and by no means defines the credit, authority or worth of page. Lower PR pages out rank higher PR pages ALL of the time.

[kevsta]

I dont disagree with anything you said there at all, but I still think this is how it works at a much simplified level.

yes lower PR pages outrank higher PR pages due to relevance, but often higher PR pages outrank lower PR pages sometimes without even having the search terms on the page.

what does seem very clear though is that if you point links of good strength (as defined by this method) at another (relevant) page,
with the right anchor text, you can rank the page for that phrase with one or two of these links alone.

I appreciate its (G) is far more complex overall, but "KISS" seems to be working pretty well for us at the moment.

It doesnt really matter so much whether you know the exact PR, i.e youre showing a 4, but youre actually a 3.7 or a 4.5, because you at least know youre not a zero,

..and that IF you can get a link off that PR4 page with 2 other links on it, thats equivalent roughly to about 150 DP sig links is what it looks like to us